.357 Magnum? So much for 1 shot stops........

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http://www.mcall.com/news/local/pol...,0,6246842.story?coll=all-newslocalpolice-hed


Read the above link. This is what happened to my Grandfather while walking his Cairn Terrier (sp?). I know it is how the dog is raised, as I now have my second Rottie. But you live around here and you see how these Pits are raised. When you see the gangsta thugs walking around with their Pits that have chain link around there necks, with 10lb weights hanging from the chain link, you know what they want these dogs for. Day before this happened to my Grandfather, Allentowns Animal Control Officer was attacked, and Allentown Police had to shoot the dog. The breed may have become so "poisoned" from all of this backyard breeding for fighting dogs, it is now out of control.
 
The breed may have become so "poisoned" from all of this backyard breeding for fighting dogs, it is now out of control.

This is generally the argument for banning the breed in city's such as the one I live in.

Isn't the argument for banning "Assualt Weapons"? essentially the same or similiar? :cuss:

Silly, isn't it? :banghead:

When will we learn to resume insisting that Individual Persons be responsible for their actions and behavior and stop eroding everybody esle's freedom in a futile effort to control the unacceptable behavior of a few idiots? :D

Ban this breed! Ban that gun! Tax automatic weapons! Tax Bullets! Sue Cigarette Manufacturers! Raise Taxes on Cigarettes! Sue Gun Manufacturers! Sue Fast Food Resturants! Start Taxing Foods With High Fat Content! :fire:

Don't you see what's happening in this country? It ain't just about guns and it ain't about banning Pit Bulls.

IT'S ABOUT FREEDOM :banghead:
 
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Thats my point. It's about individual responsibility. If you are going to breed your dog, do it to improve the breed, not degrade it. But sadly with our street youth trying to be king of the mountain, it ain't gonna happen.
 
i got a little maltese... weighs like 7 lbs.. if i saw a pit bull chewing on my dogs neck its getting a .308 hole right through the heart. none of this tinkering around with handgun rounds. i mean business. perhaps maybe even a 30-30...

but definately no handgun rounds.
 
again,

to stop one dead, i see only a shot between the eyes or possibly a contact shot, as mentioned by someone else here, to be the answer

read through the thread again cause someone mentions shooting one with a .45 ten times (??) before it finally stopped??

:what:

or am i getting that info confused in my feeble old brain cells?

:eek:

:D
 
Should have used a 9mm, even if you miss, as long as you are close, the mere speed of the bullet would have collapsed the dogs internal organs. :D
 
I agree with casualshooter on this one.. Stupid laws to control stupid people are, stupid.

Use a stick to get a pit (or any dog) for that matter to let go of my dog when it's got it by the neck? Don't think so.. If it's one of the "local" dogs then I may try the big stick to cranium technique if only to save the grief of dealing with the owner.

My warning shot would have been just behind the shoulder, followed by the remaining capacity of the firearm.

Dog's are strange animals. My yellow lab snuck off for a swim the other day (rural area, close to a river).. Neighbors boy brought him back.. Somehow he managed to cut his foot up to the point where his toe was hanging by the bone, looked like his foot had been caught in a blender, was certain that the vet would take his leg, but they somehow managed to stitch it back up.

The whole time outside, he wanted to PLAY FETCH..

He was limping along behind the kid (they are "buddies") and the minute he saw me he ran (hobbled really) into the woods, found a stick, and came running over, dropping it at my feet and wagging his tail.

I think that the dog's whole idea of pain / injury / etc.. takes a distant backseat to whatever happens to be on there "mind" at the time..

Leo
 
Use a stick to get a pit (or any dog) for that matter to let go of my dog when it's got it by the neck? Don't think so..

Let me assure you, using a break stick beats discharging a firearm inside the city limits. I speak from experience here, a few years ago I dispatched a dog chasing folks around a lumber yard with my CHL. He had one guy treed on a pile of plywood, and the owner asked me to shoot the dog, he thought I had a rifle in the truck, I did but it was a .270, so I opted for the .45acp. The police said it would be 30 minutes before they could arrive to just stay inside. I never gave thought to city limits, but 1/2 the store is in and half of it is out, guess which side I shot the dog on, it was the only side that had a backstop(huge piles of lumber). All that saved me from a trip to jail was knowing one of the cops that showed later(after I asked for him) he'd been out to my place to shoot a few times. I can assure you, even he would have arrested almost anybody else for it. The LEO has a hard time trying to figure out what to do in a situation like this, if it is a bad guy and he has a gun or a knife they know it is ok, if it is a dog and the owner is screaming it would never bite(which was happening), then they truly don't know what happened.

If a dog goes to the local shelter and it is aggresive towards other dogs, it gets destroyed most of the time.

The breed may have become so "poisoned" from all of this backyard breeding for fighting dogs, it is now out of control.


This is what these dogs are bred for, they come from an age when not only was fighting them acceptable, it was a time honored tradition, animal gladiators if you will. Now that idea has become repulsive to the human masses, like hunting has become to some of them. The animal hasn't changed, it is still genetically programmed to fight if confronted. You can work around the genetics, have the dog fixed, muzzle, give him an outlet for that aggression that is not another canine(we use hogs). But the fact remains the possibility that dog will attack another is always there. You need also to remember that just like a bad gun owner, it is only the bad ones that get talked about.

My uncle was a vet in San Diego, he said 50% of his patient load was Pitbulls, and they where also his favorite animal to work on, because they never tried to bite him, he hated dalmations and Heelers. He said tucked away in many homes both inside and out in the yard where pitbulls, people loved them for the companionship they provided.

The main problem with dogs today is the smucks that keep them. They dump em out to fend for themselves and they take to chasing game and livestock to feed themselves, they revert back to the old pack mentality and will clean the game from whole areas. They beat them senseless for petty infractions or just cause they bought them to beat on instead of their wife and kids and then when the dog fights back they dump it on the streets and it hates everyone. Some people dump them in the yard and never have contact with them, dogs are social animals and they often become violent when not given that social setting. I could go on and on.

But the thing is in regards to pits is somewhere down the line somebody tried to breed the game out of them, make them huge lap dogs and it took in some lines of breeding, but it also created other problems, sometimes it misplaced that aggresion and it became a prey drive towards humans(which the original breeders would have culled them for) But the largest problem is they changed the mental mindset of the dogs, they bred for a trait which they thought was grand but in reality caused most of the problems, they bred to make the animal timid. The one problem with a timid dog is it will bite out of fright, whether it is cornered or not. Now top this with a dog that a gangbanger has that seems scared to fight, so he decides to make the dog fight, he starts dumping nitrogen into the feed, burning out his brain, till all that is left is the original origins of the breed (prey drive and what they have tried to create a frightened animal). It is recipe for disaster when the dog has enough bite pressure to almost shear limbs from children, enough muscles to bring down and drag a 250lb man, and a genetic code that makes it not react to pain as other animals do. You truly do come up with something scary. But the incidence of that is few and far between, probably lower than the number of gun owners who actually go out and commit a crime.

You can actually make the same mental changes to your standard poodle and many have, because who hasn't been bit by a poodle, the only difference being a poodle won't cripple you.

I'm with the rest, laws won't fix a thing.
 
Let me assure you, using a break stick beats discharging a firearm inside the city limits.

Fortunately I don't live in the city limits. Unfortunatley I don't carry a break stick. Fortunately I do carry a Ruger.

If a dog, had my dog by the neck, I would be discharging my firearm. Shooting something is always a method of last resort IMHO. Now it they are just having a friendly "get out of my yard fight" (been known to happen in these parts) then a slight correction via a painfull, but non-lethal method usually sends them on their way. but when that poor abused pit locks it's jaws around my pup's neck playtime is over, I can promise you it'll be the last dog it ever bites.

Leo
 
Often a gun is not the best solution for a dog.

While working a dog bite complaint in a major US City many years ago, another police officer related his experience while working a previous dog bite complaint in the same City.

He said that after taking the report from the victum, he went to the home of the owner of the dog and advised that the dog would have to be locked up for 10 days to observe for possible rabies infection. :scrutiny:

The dog's owner was NOT pleased to hear that news and decided to sic the dog, a large german shepard, on the officer. :fire:

The officer said that his first thought was to shoot the dog and so drew his revolver instead of his night stick. He then realized that he was standing on a concrete front porch and children were present. He became concerned about the possibility of a recochet bullet strikeing a child. :eek: So he decided to strike the dog with his revolver rather than shoot it and risk possible injury, to innocent children standing nearby, from an erant shot or ricochet. :uhoh:

Now a 4" barreled S&W K38 service revolver is a much shorter strikeing weapon than a police night stick and when the officer tried to strike the dog with the revolver the dog quite easily bit him on the arm. :cuss:

That officer told me that he quickly learned to rely on his night stick instead of his revolver when working subsequent similar complaints.

I believe he was right. Additionally, I found, over a period of many years, that it was not uncommon to encounter multiple dogs running together when handling various calls in the inner city. I found a night stick to be quite effective when dealing with such animals as they seemed to have a universal respect for the additional reach that a night stick affords and they would generally maintain their distance when I had one in hand. :D

Now I'm not saying that there may not be times when the use of a firearm may be needed; but, my first choice in dealing with dogs would generally be a good stick. Of course, it would be good to have ready access to a firearm for back up in those cases where it may be needed and circumstances allow it to be safely deployed.
 
It also seems to me that if a firearm isn't handy, and a dog's bite must be broken, a sharp knife to the jaw muscles would solve the problem.

Mind you, I am no dog-hater - the one Pit I have known was a good dog, and I had two Rotties myself that were fine dogs.

When I'm again in a position to have a large dog, I'm thinking an American Bulldog, myself. It's a rare breed, true to the original bulldog. Think of a Pit the size of a Rottweiler, and you get the idea. I met one some years ago, and was greatly impressed with its disposition.
 
When I'm again in a position to have a large dog, I'm thinking an American Bulldog, myself.

They are great dogs, just expensive, I had a chance to buy one from a buddy moving to Israel for 1/4 of what he paid for it. But I was scared to bring a 3yr old dog into the house with my 3yr old. They are super protective of their home turf, but really loving once they get to know someone.
 
"...Typically the way to do it is grab the attacking dog by the tail and pull..." That wee puppy can turn around and have you by the throat faster than you can spit. Water and lots of it is the best way to sort out fighting mutts. Think hose. Gives you nearly unlimited ammo and lots of range.
No handgun round will stop anything reliably with one shot everytime. Not people and certainly not a dog. Both can and will function with a whole bunch of fatal wounds.
 
I once worked with this gentleman who was a marshal at the Federal Court building. We became close friends and when i felt comfortable with him I asked what happened to his face (one side did not move very well, and it looked more "pronounced" than the other side). His story was that he was once a CHP officer and had just come back from vacation. Pulled over a truck for speeding and went to go talk to the driver. At the drivers window, he said driver looked nervous and there was a paper bag with some cash sticking out of it. He said he had got a report of a shooting/robbery on the radio, and he guess his mind was still on his vacation as it didn't register that this may be the robbery suspect until the guy pulled a revolver and shot him point blank in the face with a 357 mag.

He said he woke up and found out he had been in a coma for 2 months and then spent the next few years going through recontructive surgery and physical therapy. Said it was an act of God as he should have rightfully been dead. Maybe the robber guy wasn't using hot ammo, but jeez a 357 in the face and still surviving....
 
Had a family member that ran into a similiar situation with a pit-bulldog mix that came onto their property and started killing chickens.
When my sister challenged the dog and started throwing things, the dog turned on her and she only managed to outrun it to the back door of her home by a miracle.
The screen door slamming in the dogs face gave her enough time to grab her 357 and shoot it 2 times.
That knocked the dog off the porch and it then staggered/tumbled down a small bank into a branch. (that's a very, very small stream in case you are wondering)

The dog made it out of the branch just as her husband (nap over) took over the weapon and went out the back door. The dog came for him. He shot it twice and they assumed it was dead at this point and called the SD and dog catcher.

The deputy and dog catcher arrived at about the same time and guess what, the dog was not dead. By now the owner had been located and took his dog away after threatening everyone in every direction for three generations etc etc. Dead chickens not withstanding.

One comment the deputy made was that it was good the dog was found "anchored" on their property where it was actually committing the killing. If it had wondered off their property things could have been a bit more problematic. Turns out my sister had to give the owner permission to come get his dog. And my sister could have had her chickens replaced at the dog owner's expense. There was never any retaliation from the owner.

Another strange part of the story is the owner took the dog to the same vet my sis uses but had the vet put the dog to sleep when they quoted him what the treatment/surgery etc would cost. Seems the dog had no record of ever having a radies vaccination. I believe the mix of genes in this critter made it possible for it to survive such punishment.

Don't know what kind of projectiles my sister had her evolver loaded with.

If the same thing happen to me I think I would shoot till the critter was dead and was going to stay that way before I called animal control or LE. It might not stop a court action against me but it might make it easier to win especially if it was a jurt trial.

BTW I love my dogs and cats but I have no use for dogs that come on my property and cause problems. Dead dog.
Now that I have small kids that is doubly true.


S-
 
fwiw,,,

on the tail grabbing

i remember somewhere learning about grabbing the hind legs and then you can steer the dog like a wheel barrow to prevent it from turning on you

never tried it

wouldnt want to

it probably wouldnt get a pit to release though

also, dobies can jump up and spin 180 within their body radius, just like a top

i think it has to do with their body mass being mostly forward

m
 
I just saw this thread. Local laws. Cops, and Prosecutors are different, some places aren't too bad, but others are a mess. It's important to know what to expect where each of us lives, and our abilities.

I had to put four rounds into an adult Pit/Shepard mix that was attacking kids and Teachers at a school a while back. Four hits for four shots out to forty feet or so, in a palm sized group behind the left shoulder, on a charging/ running dog with HUGE teeth, before he finally stopped.

Two rounds were broadside, the other two were rear quartering shots. FWIW, pistol was a Glock 23 with Ranger 180's. All rounds stayed inside the dog. Some animals (and people) are tough SOB's and don't just give up that easily. Mace doesn't work on dogs, and pepper spray had been used on this attacking dog without effect. Another ("that's the nice doggie") dog (that had been fighting off this dog earlier) ran away at my first two rounds.
 
[/QUOTE] Water and lots of it is the best way to sort out fighting mutts. Think hose. Gives you nearly unlimited ammo and lots of range.

Think hose


Ingram MAC-10?? lots of pistol size ammo in quantity. i'd imagine it would sort dog fights out right quick
 
MN law on killing a dog:

347.17 Any person may kill dogs in certain cases.

Any person may kill any dog that the person knows is
affected with the disease known as hydrophobia, or that may
suddenly attack while the person is peacefully walking or riding
and while being out of the enclosure of its owner or keeper, and
may kill any dog found killing, wounding, or worrying any
horses, cattle, sheep, lambs, or other domestic animals.
 
Bull Terrier = Pit Bull Terrier = Pit Bull

All the same breed.

Actually, they aren't.

Check here for info on pit bulls
http://www.nyx.net/~mbur/apbtfaqpre.html

http://www.nyx.net/~mbur/apbtfaqtoc.html

And here for info on bulls
http://www.thebullterrier.com/btfaq.shtml

http://www.btca.com/

Speaking of cruelty to animals, I hate it when people dress their pets up, especially tough dogs like bull terriers. I know dogs don't feel humiliation, but that almost makes it worse. Like dressing your retarded brother up like Elton John and taking him to the mall. Embarrassing for everyone concerned.


And St Gunner, I love Dogo Argentinos! :) I'm planning on getting one (or two or three;) ) after I serve my hitch in the Marine Corp. Beautiful dogs.
 
Sad commentary on todays society.

The people knew the name of the dog but didn't know the name of the owners who lived next door.

Pit bulls are for the most part fine, friendly and wonderful dogs. They have unfortunately gotten a bad rep because of a few with bad breeding and stupid owners.

I have always found dalmations to be more dangerous.

DM
 
Bull Terriers are sometimes unfortunately lumped in with Pit Bulls when it comes to laying blame on biting dogs. They are usually totally innocent, and are one of the most playful, comical, lovable dogs to own. They are certainly not the same breed. They are generally much smaller than Pits, also. "Meatball" from Black Sheep Squadron was always fun to watch, and then there was Spuds MacKenzie.....................
 
"It's unlawful to discharge a firearm inside city limits," said Lt. Michael Runyon.

This is something that's often quoted, yet seems misleading. If it was truly illegal to discharge a firearm inside city limits, it would appear that every self-defense shooting case would have to include this charge being levied against the shooter. After all, you apparently can't defend yourself inside city limits without breaking the law - and all laws are meant to be enforced, aren't they?

However, since this charge is rarely levied in the real world, is there some "extenuating circumstances" clause usually built into the statute, or is it just a case of the cops deciding to ignore it on a case-by-case basis?
 
Typically, there are exceptions written into the laws or ordinances.

Most cities have codified their ordinances and I believe you would find it a worth while educational experience to go to your City Clerk's office and look at your city's criminal code in its Code of General Ordinances. :cool:
 
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