357 Max

[greyghost01]

Hey Guys, Need some help ran across a pretty good deal on an T/C Encore and 2 barrels one is a 223, The other is a 357 Max, Can I shoot 357 mags and 38 spl out of this. What if anything could I get it reamed out to? I have a 357 revolver and enjoy it if able to shoot 357 mags out of it would definitely give me more velocity and be great for hunting. I don't know anything about the max. Please give me all you got, I need a decision by tomorrow on this purchase. Thanks

 

[RussB]

You can shoot 357 mag and 38 special from that barrel...I have a 10" Contender barrel chambered in 357 MAX

 

[witchhunter]

Snatch it up! It shoots 38's and 357's, but the maximum is a great round. It rivals the 35 Remington out of a pistol, with a lot less recoil. Mine shoots 180 grainers at 1900 FPS.

 

[ugaarguy]

Yes, you can shoot .38 Special and .357 Mag from a .357 Max bbl. The one I had loved 148 gr and 158 gr bullets in factory .38 special loadings, but it grouped poorly with anything at .357 mag velocities in factory .357 Mag loadings. Using .357 max cases it seemed to like anything 140 grains and heavier at just about any velocity. Thankfully .357 Max is just a slightly longer .357 Mag, so it's a super easy cartridge to load, and most manufacturers .38 Spl / .357 Mag dies will accommodate the Max.

 

[Monac]

The 357 Maximum was a lengthened and substantially more powerful 357 Magnum. It turned out to be a revolver cartridge that no revolver could economically be built to handle, because of flame-cutting of the frame above the gap between the cylinder and the barrel. Ruger made revolvers for it briefly before this problem became apparent. I forget who else did - possibly Dan Wesson?

In single shot guns such as your Thompson Center Contender, this was no problem. (Nor would it have been in rifles, but I don't know if anybody ever made any.) This market was not big enough to keep the cartridge alive, however, and it has been out of production for about 20 years, give or take 5.

All the above is off the top of my head, and very much IIRC.

 

[eastbank]

i have a contender 10 bull .357 mag barrel rechambered to 35 rem.,as the twist was the same 1 in 16. it shoots 180gr and 200gr bullets into 1-1.5 inch groups at 50yds with a 2x burris scope. its my favorite heavy brush deer pistol. eastbank.

 

[bluetopper]

Get it, then start the ongoing quest for Maximum brass. Quite infatuated with my Max Contender.

Quite a few threads about the Max of late, try the "Search".

 

[Steve CT]

The 357 Maximum was a lengthened and substantially more powerful 357 Magnum. It turned out to be a revolver cartridge that no revolver could economically be built to handle, because of flame-cutting of the frame above the gap between the cylinder and the barrel. Ruger made revolvers for it briefly before this problem became apparent. I forget who else did - possibly Dan Wesson?

In single shot guns such as your Thompson Center Contender, this was no problem. (Nor would it have been in rifles, but I don't know if anybody ever made any.) This market was not big enough to keep the cartridge alive, however, and it has been out of production for about 20 years, give or take 5.

All the above is off the top of my head, and very much IIRC.

DW Model 40 in .357 Max is a strong and durable revolver, built on the Dan Wesson Large Frame, and easily manages the .357 Max, and much more substantial calibers.

 

[Saleen322]

DW Model 40 in .357 Max is a strong and durable revolver, built on the Dan Wesson Large Frame, and easily manages the .357 Max, and much more substantial calibers.

Listen to this guy as he knows what he is talking about. This Dan Wesson was my silhouette revolver that I competed with starting back in the 1980s. Thousands of rounds out of it and it still is very accurate as well as fast and hard hitting. I also have a 10" contender along with a single shot handi rifle in 357 Max. FYI: Elgin Gates who came up with the 357 Super Mag (Max) recommended what length the cylinder needs to be. Dan Wesson listened but Bill Ruger cut it shorter. The Rugers would not as easily handle heavy bullets, were subject to flame cutting, and production was stopped.

 

[BullRunBear]

I have a 357 Max 10" barrel for an original model Contender. I think a previous owner used it for steel targets. It handles 38 special and 357 magnum just fine. If I ever come across some 357 Max. cases, I'll load some up but there is plenty of fun to be had with the shorter cartridges.

Jeff

 

[greyghost01]

Thanks, I really appreciate the response from all of you, No negative comments at all so sounds like a no brainer. The Encore can handle the 308 also is that right?
It would be a hoot to shoot all my rifle loads in a hand gun also.

 

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Others have already answered you question about 38s and 357mags.

Personally I would pass if the 357max barrel is factory. The factory barrels vs the custom barrels (such as MGM) cut their chambers with a conical throat whereas the custom makers cut their chambers with a proper cylindrical throat. Resulting in much greater accuracy potential. If your not familiar with the conical vs cylindrical debate do a search for Mike Bellm and the 357max.

 

[Monac]

2ndAmendmentNut, does what you say also apply to shooting 357 Magnum and 38 Special from the factory Contender 357 Maximum barrels?

 

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Yes the accuracy potential is far less with a conical throat vs cylinder throat regardless of if it is a 38, 357mag, or 357max.

 

[Saleen322]

2ndAmendmentNut, what kind of accuracy did you get from your factory TC 10" barrel? Mine would do around 3" @ 150 meters (the Turkey line) which I thought was good. It also shot 38 specials around 1" @ 25 yds but I never really tried them at longer range.

What is the accuracy guarantee on the cylinder throat custom barrels? I was wondering if it is substantially better than what my factory TC barrel does.

 

[steel shooter]

The flame cutting came from the use of light weight bullet with the use of ball powders. As I understand the flame was too hot coming out of the cylinder gap. The Dan Wesson and Seville revolvers did not have that concern. Maybe their top strap was farther away from the forcing cone, I don't know, but the flame cutting stop after reaching a certain depth. As i understand, it was not detrimental to the revolver. The 357 Max was design to shoot heavy weight bullets at a higher volicities then the Mag, mainly to knock down the 200 meter rams in silhouette shooting. It has also become a very good hunting round with heavy wide meplat cast bullets or heavy jacketed bullets, both in the 175-200 gr range. As far as should you get the Encore, I hope you did, as it's hard to pass up a deal like that.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I concur completely about the ball powders and light bullets. To elaborate, the problem comes from the shooting of these in the Ruger SRM.

Think about it for a bit. If you shoot a ball powder, with a heavy bullet, the powder has time to consume itself "more" than if you use a light bullet so by the time you get the base of the bullet to the cylinder gap, the powder is more consumed in the heavy case and less consumed in the light case. The bullet crosses the cylinder gap and while Bernoulli's laws still hold, some of those really hot little grains of burning powder are going to cross the gap and flame cut your frame. Its not really flame cutting but sand blasting in my thinking.

I learned this the hard way on my Ruger SRM with some 140's and 296. One box of shots flame cut the frame when I had not a problem prior when I only used 158's or 180's and 4227.



The bulk of this was done by those 50 rounds of 296. Since I went back to 4227 and "heavies" the problem went right away.

 

[Saleen322]

That revolver is not cut bad at all. Even the ones I seen markedly deeper and then shot a bunch later did not get any deeper. It seems like it goes down a bit and then no more even with lighter bullets. That is not in any way endorsing using lighter bullets as 170 - 200 bullets are the way to go.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Agreed not badly cut in general, but badly cut for only 50 rounds of ball powder. Icky stuff in the max and I avoid them in general.

 

[bluetopper]

Of course flame cutting no issue at all in the 357 Max Contender barrel.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Interesting point to consider. If you buy into the concept it is the ball powder sand blasting the frame. Why does the ball powder not sand blast the throat and the early part of the rifling?

As a question to ponder, why is it ok in an enclosed barrel and not in a revolver?

My point would be that the pressures are contained so you are not venting the high pressure gas and burning little spheres of powder against the frame. While in the contender they just abrade the throat as the bounce down the barrel burning behind the bullet.

 

[steveno]

gas cutting will happen with any high pressure round shot in a revolver. this isn't something that is just problem of the 357 max.

one of the things that didn't help with the 357 max Ruger was the fact that it was introduced to the IHMSA shooters first before giving the gun writers their samples first. upset gun writers will kill a round faster than the round itself.

Dan Wesson never solved the gas cutting and at least in the early days they gave you 2 barrels if you had problems with the forcing cone

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I had heard that DW gave you second barrel. By the time I bought my model 40, the barrel had since parted ways so I just shoot what I have. My SRM I just keep away from ball powders and it is a lot of fun to shoot.

 

[Saleen322]

Dan Wesson never solved the gas cutting and at least in the early days they gave you 2 barrels if you had problems with the forcing cone

Yeah I am sure mine will gas cut and destroy itself as soon as I get some time on it. It is still new as it has only been shot for about 30 years.....

 

[steveno]

the telling point with a 357 max revolver is how often you shoot it and the load you use. if you are shooting IHMSA it depends on how many classes you shoot it in. if you wanted to you could shoot it in production , revolver , standing and if you really wanted to you could shoot it in unlimited if you wanted to. at 40 rounds a class and depending upon how many matches you shot a month plus practice. state matches could be either 60 or 80 rounds per class. that could easily be 1,500 rounds a year that is a lot of wear on the revolver by a high pressure round and it doesn't matter whether it is a Ruger or a Wesson. it is a great round in the TC and not quite as much in a revolver. I don't know how many revolver Ruger (or Wesson for that matter) made but all things considered probably not that many compared to their other revolvers.