.357 SIG Flash

[CDW4ME]

10mm factory loads offer very little beyond .40 S&W because they're essentially loaded like the .40.
10mm requires grips that tend to be uncomfortable for people with smaller hands
.357 Sig has a lot of caveats and it doesn't lend itself to SD or concealable firearms.

Hornady 155 XTP 1,344 fps is significantly more than 40 and there is Underwood 180 gr. / 1,300 fps.
10mm 1911's are a thing, (Colt, Ruger, Kimber)
Glock 32 is the same size as Glock 19 and is easily concealed.

 

[MaduroBU]

Hornady 155 XTP 1,344 fps is significantly more than 40 and there is Underwood 180 gr. / 1,300 fps.
10mm 1911's are a thing, (Colt, Ruger, Kimber)
Glock 32 is the same size as Glock 19 and is easily concealed.

I'll offer up some data so that this isn't all cluttered with my thoughts:
Hornady 155 10mm rated at 1410 FPS, 180 at 1275 FPS; Underwood appears to have given up on the 10mm (which is a shame because there ABSOLUTELY WAS a difference there)
Hornady 155 .40 rated at 1180, 180 at 950 FPS, Underwood 150 rated at 1300 FPS, 180 at 1100 FPS and 200 at 950 FPS. My SD load is a 200 grain XTP at 900 FPS from a 3.9" barrel

It's not spelled out, but based upon what Hodgdon does for their load data and common practice/usage, I presume that Hornady is using a 5" barrel for the 10mm velocities and a 4" barrel for their .40 velocities. That knocks the 100-150 FPS advantage that you see above for the 10mm down to the 50-75 FPS range. I'll grant that if you're a 1911 enthusiast or willing to use a single stack gun, a 10mm is an amazing choice; for other makes, moving to 10mm puts you into a .45 gun with an extended grip. .40 winds up being the widest and longest cartridge that you can combine with a double stack magazine and get a comfortable grip for most shooters (my carry guns are both single stack, but for a lot of folks that makes a difference).

The G32 is a small handgun, and that means a 4" barrel. The ballistics of a .357 Sig from factory loads are poor vs their potential. The ballistics of .357 Sig factory loads from a 4" barrel are very poor. You get a ton of muzzle blast because the muzzle exit pressure is very high, marginally higher velocity than a 9mm +P because the extra powder didn't have time to burn, and reduced magazine capacity because the case to hold the noisy and inefficient extra powder took up magazine space. Which means that yes, you can fire a .357 Sig from a G19 sized firearm, but at the cost of low light vision, worse shooting performance due to severe recoil and worse magazine capacity. These are fundamentally the same issues that you run into when attempting to use the 10mm: why go to all of that trouble and expense if the 9mm or .40 S&W gets 95% of the velocity with more magazine capacity and less muzzle blast?

Understand that I'm not stating that the .357 Sig or 10mm are bad calibers. I believe that they're in a class by themselves among pistol rounds (I believe that the .460 Rowland is beyond the limits of a short recoil pistol as it requires a compensator for safe operation). However, the additional power that both offer doesn't show up in commerically available ammo AND even if one handloads them to that potential, requires a 5-6" barrel. The Colt Delta Elite is the best 1911 ever made, and there is no pistol that I'd trade for my P226 X5 in .357 Sig.

I hope that clears things up. Cheers.

Edit: here's what 10mm is supposed to be:https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=249

 

[CDW4ME]

@MaduroBU
These are chrono averages from my pistols:
Glock 19:
Federal HST 124 gr. +P @ 1,210 fps / 403# KE
Federal HST 147 gr +P @ 1,044 fps / 356# KE
Glock 32:
Speer Gold Dot 125 gr. @ 1,344 fps / 501# KE
Federal HST 125 gr. @ 1,358 fps / 512# KE
Even with a 4'' barrel 357 Sig has 20% more KE than 9mm +P
I think the extra velocity/KE of 357 Sig advantageous and do not think gel results are completely reflective of a bullets potential.
Why? Because the 155 XTP 10mm expands to about .65 in gel but I documented holes in a deer (shoulder / heart) larger than .95 (quarter).
357 Sig and 10mm are enthusiast calibers.

 

[MaduroBU]

I'm going to try a load with 9mm +P for a 125 grain HDY XTP and a HDY 147 grain XTP. Quickload says that the 125 should get around 1300 FPS at max and the 147 around 1200 from a 4" barrel, but it's generally off somewhat (high or low). I'm a little nervous about this as I only have a G19 to test in (I usually only work up hot loads in metal framed guns...I have more faith in the ability of stainless steel to protect my hand if something goes horribly wrong), but in 0.1 grain increments it should be fine.

For comparison, I generally use a 5.7" threaded barrel P225 X5 for .357 Sig and get 1360 for 147 with POWER PISTOL, though I could get 1425 with 800X (though I can no longer find it and it meters so badly that it needs to be weighed for such hot loads). With 115 grain bullets I was north of 1600 FPS, but I have not put in much work for 125 grain bullets.

I admit that it would be nice to be able to use the same load in my P226 and P239 if that doesn't mean a huge ballistic sacrifice. Texas is a giant iceberg right now, so I'm stuck at home, but I have the week off and should have some range time by Tuesday.

 

[SharpDog]

should I try it?

of course !