I was thinking, is .357 Sig a good carry?

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IBT98

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It seems like a fun round to shoot, handgun wise, I've only shot a Glock in .357 Sig, thats it. I like it, typical rounds have 600ft*lbs of energy, which according to a wound ballistic book by a WWII Surgeon and ballistics research group will make a TSC impact with the spine causing rapid/instant incapacitation. I was wondering, what is a good .357 Sig gun to use and the best ammo I can find on the market without cleaning out my bank account. If anyone has any ideas, love to hear from the community.

Thanks.
 
There are several ways to approach this. You can read what other THRs suggest but that doesn't give you a hands on. You can go to YouTube for opinions on the .357 Sig and possibly holsters for CC. If you have an indoor shooting range nearby you can usually shoot many different handguns there. Since you like the Sig then you can research Sig on the web to see which handgun may be the easiest to CC. I think you can possibly answer your own question with a little web based research.
 
Just make very sure you always know what's behind your targets cuz it's going to punch right on through......a human body won't hardly even slow it down. Personally I think you need to balance recoil energy on your end with terminal effect on the other end. That's a lot of energy - on both ends. I have always preferred large heavy slow bullets for the slower recoil impulse and less chance of over penetration.
 
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If you don't count Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, Grizzly Ammunition, Underwood, and uncommonly <100gr rounds, 500 - 510 ft-lb is the typical rating.

Cor-Bon 125gr DPX: 505 ft-lb
Federal 125gr HST: 513 ft-lb
Federal 125gr FMJ: 506 ft-lb
Fiocchi 124gr FMJ: 505 ft-lb
Hornady 124gr XTP 502 ft-lb
Speer 125gr GD: 506 ft-lb

All of Remington's .357 Sig rounds are 506 ft-lb
All of Winchester's .357 Sig rounds are 506 ft-lb

http://www.ballistics101.com/357_sig.php
 
Forget about "energy transfer" or "hydrostatic shock" because they are meaningless or don't apply when it comes to handgun wounds.

.357 Sig pushes a 9mm projectile at very high velocity. I think the high kinetic energy can be an asset in situations in which barrier penetration (like truck doors or auto glass) comes into play, and I suspect that is why some law enforcement agencies favor it.

There is no shortage of 9mm Para JHP cartridges that make the same size hole that have excellent expansion and penetration and offer greater magazine capacity over the .357 SIG.

If you want something juicier than 9mm Para, .40 S&W also has excellent expansion and penetration and makes a bigger hole.

.357 ammunition is considerably more expensive and if purchased locally usually has a limited selection, or is unavailable.

If I were to buy a pistol chambered in .357 SIG it would be either a SIG Sauer P226 or 229 for a TDA pistol, or a SIG P320 for a striker-fired action pistol.
 
That is false, to say that it is irrelevant is just false. A handgun round does the same effect as hydrostatic shock, maybe if using high energy transfer rounds, you'll see that Newtonian physics exist.

a Hand gun round that penetrates 12 inches with 500ft*lbs is basically 500lbf exerted on the body, causing a massive TSC which damages or paralyzes nerves, causing someone to drop.

I choose ammo based on energy, penetration gets innocent people killed, its better to use physics and thinking, not false ideas
 
I like the 357 Sig in a Glock. The Glocks frame absorbs recoil better than another other gun I've fired that round in. The Model 31 is one of my house guns. I'm surprised at the 100-yd. accuracy, even though it's not designed for that.
 
I carry a Glock #31 in 357 SIG ... very accurate and due the funnel shape chamber have never had any FTF or any other problems ....

Ammo is no problem to find ... but I reload ... plenty of good brass, bullets, powders and primers around .... I just loaded up boat load of it ...

My favorite load is the 124 gr XTP Hornady and Longshot powder ...
 
hat is false, to say that it is irrelevant is just false. A handgun round does the same effect as hydrostatic shock, maybe if using high energy transfer rounds, you'll see that Newtonian physics exist.

a Hand gun round that penetrates 12 inches with 500ft*lbs is basically 500lbf exerted on the body, causing a massive TSC which damages or paralyzes nerves, causing someone to drop.

I choose ammo based on energy, penetration gets innocent people killed, its better to use physics and thinking, not false ideas

If you want to talk about Newtonian physics consider this. All that massive kinetic energy imparted to the projectile that you expect to do work, knock a person down, and cause massive neural trauma also does work on your pistol and you. In fact, it does somewhat more work on you because projectile velocity decreases with increasing distance from the muzzle, and kinetic energy decreases with the square of decrease in velocity. But does that .357 SIG projectile knock the shooter down and cause massive neural trauma to them?

And before you talk about "false ideas", do a few Google searches. Because, quite frankly, you are reinventing the false ideas of handgun effectiveness from years past.

First look up the kinetic energy theory of General Julian Hatcher. Hatcher's theory predicted that a .45 ACP FMJ bullet was TWICE as effective as a 9x19mm FMJ bullet. Then check out the energy deposit theory of the Dr. V.J.M. DeMaio. Neither of these discredited indices have any predictive value in determining relative handgun caliber effectiveness.

Finally, look into the Relative Incapacitation Index developed by the US Department of Justice at great expense to the US taxpayer. This masterpiece of misguided thinking which equated effectiveness with the volume of the "temporary wound cavity" in ballistic gelatin arrived at the conclusion that the 115gr 9mm Para was TWICE as effective as 230gr .45 ACP.

All of these models fail to have any predictive value because the only factors that are of significance when it comes to handgun wounding effectiveness in real life are the volume of the permanent cavity (or crush channel), which depends on the diameter of the expanded projectile and the depth of penetration, and more importantly, what that crush channel traverses (which depends upon shot placement). Parameters such as velocity and kinetic energy are only important insofar as they are sufficient to result in adequate expansion and penetration of the projectile. Volume of "temporary cavity" is meaningless in human tissue. Unlike ballistic gel, tissue has collagenous fibers that hold it together, and elastin fibers that render it elastic. Soft tissue temporarily displaced simply rebounds back into position without significant injury at the energies handgun projectiles are capable of achieving.

For any given depth of penetration and given identical shot placement, the larger projectile will be slightly more likely to impact a critical structure, and the permanent wound channel will be larger, resulting in greater blood loss. But unless the crush channel traverses a critical structure like part of the upper CNS, the heart, or a great vessel, immediate physiological incapacitation will not occur. Even with a hit to the heart or great vessels, incapacitation is very unlikely to be immediate. Multiple wounds which do not traverse critical structures may eventually result in sufficient blood loss to cause incapacitation through hypotension, but that takes some time.

If you are really interested in handgun wounding effectiveness read this post written by someone who knows what he is talking about:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4328-Basic-Wound-Ballistic-Terminal-Performance-Facts

Then read this article from the FBI:

http://www.pointshooting.com/1afbi1.htm

You can also look at Greg Ellifritz's study. Ellifritz collected all of the empirical data he could locate pertaining to handgun shootings over a 10 year period and recorded as much data as he could regarding factors he considered significant. His conclusion: really no difference he could find significant in the effectiveness of the common handgun calibers. He had to lump .357 SIG and .357 Magnum together because of the relatively small number of data points. But incredibly, when he looked at the data .380 Auto did about as well parameter for parameter as .357:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power
 
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There isn't anything wrong with carrying a .357 Sig, though ammo is scare in my parts. You can order online, but it is pricier than other calibers. Fine if you have sufficient disposable income or you reload, though personally I don't care to mess with reloading bottle necked pistol cartridges. Perhaps it isn't so bad though. Also, firearm selection isn't as wide. For example, I'm not aware of any S&W M&P Shield, Glock 43 or Ruger LC9 sized guns in .357 Sig.

As for energy being the primary determinant of stopping power, we aren't talking about Han Solo's BlasTech DL-44 here. pblanc pretty well covers it. In handguns, they all pretty much shoot little chunks of led, some a little bigger and heavier than others, some a little faster than others. The human body isn't going to know much difference between a 124 9mm +P at 1200 fps and a 125 grain .357 Sig at 1425 or so.

Energy is important in so far as you have to have energy to get the projectile moving, and drive it deep enough while hopefully expanding.
 
Wow, you guy are passionate about this. Here is my un professional opinion.

#1. Pick the right gun. If your not carring it, nothing else matters.
#2. Practice Practice Practice. Caliber doesnt matter if you cant hit the target under high stress and adreniline rush.
#3. Pick a premium self defense ammo. Bullet design has more to do with penitration and effectiveness than caliber. (At least with mainstream caliber)
#4. Caliber. 9, 357, 40, 45. Will all do the job if #1-3 is followed. If cost is an issue i would go with 9 to make it affordable for rule #2
 
IBT,

I have several .357 Sigs.

Glocks in the 32 and 31 flavors work.... Well like Glocks. My converted Glock 35, with Storm Lake barrel, is real impressive.

With top .357 Sig ammo you do make true .357 magnum power. 125 gr at 1400 to 1600 fps.

But, I've found, for me, the subcompacts, like the Glock 33, are a bit much as for as recoil.

If it was me, I'd get for CCW the Glock 32 and a Glock 23 (.40 S&W) slide and have both .357 Sig and .40 S&W.

Deaf
 
Just my opinion, but if you are picking a carry gun based on the maximum ft lbs of energy you can cramp into it, you're doing it wrong
 
For carry? I'd go with either a G32/33 or one of the Sigs. Many Sigs come in 357. :) You got a few to choose from.

As an aside, I'd get a barrel in 40S&W just to practice with.
 
It's a great round...I support your choice IF you commit to training enough to get proficient with a pretty hot round, commit to locating and choosing the premium rounds that actually maximize the rounds potential, and understand that it's not the " flavor of the week just now.
Please stick with your choice, it will get popular again.
 
It's an excellent round. It's niche is barriers like an automobile. That's why it's so popular with highway patrol and police. The only reason it isn't more popular is cost.

It's downside is that it's very loud, and blast when shooting from the retention position can be distracting.

I have a Glock 32 .357 barrel in my Glock 23. Most of the time I shoot it as a .40. But I have been practicing and carrying the .357 barrel more and more often lately.
 
Yes it is.

The 357 Sig is for energy oriented people, offers the performance of 357 mag 125 JHP from a 4'' barrel, when fired from a 4'' barrel like the Glock 32.
My chrono data, average for at least 5 shots:
Glock 32:
Winchester Ranger T 125 gr. @ 1,340 fps / 499# KE / PF 168
Speer Gold Dot 125 gr. @ 1,344 fps / 501# KE / PF 168
Federal HST 125 gr. @ 1,358 fps / 512# KE / PF 170
Glock 23:
Remington Golden Saber 165 gr. @ 1,048 fps / 402# KE / PF 173
Federal Hydra-Shok 180 gr. @ 969 fps / 375# KE / PF 174
Federal HST 180 gr. @ 1003 fps / 402# KE / PF 181

The power factor calculation (PF) shows that 357 Sig produces a little less recoil than even the "softer shooting" 40 S&W options.
357 Sig does have more blast than 40 S&W and some people incorrectly associate blast with recoil.

Comparing HST to HST, 357 Sig offers 21% more KE but with 6% less recoil than 40.
I do think KE matters (given equal shot placement, bullet design, penetration) which is why the 357 mag is regarded as a better "stopper" than 38 Special.

357 Sig HP ammo is geared toward LE, so it is not over penetrative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kLkpIljrNA
 
J1

I truly cannot understand why you consider economics of carry ammunition. Your life and safety do not seem that important to you.
 
I like the 357 Sig and Underwood produces some pretty potent loads.
A 125gr Gold Dot pushed to 1550 FPS from a G31 and generating 670 ft/lbs is impressive.

However, this is my choice for hiking. I don't think I really need this level of energy for concealed carry.

Did I mention the 357 Sig is loud? It is loud. You can absolutely tell the difference between a 9mm or even a .40 S&W and the 357 Sig (or at least I certainly can from both my M&P40c and XDm 4.5 both with StormLake 357 Sig barrels).

That said, there are some great defensive loads for the 357 Sig. Federal HST and Remington's Bonded Golden Saber come to mind.
 
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I truly cannot understand why you consider economics of carry ammunition. Your life and safety do not seem that important to you.
Carry ammo is one thing, practice ammo is another. Practice is supposed to be economical, which is hard given the cost of typical .357 Sig, and prohibitive to a point if you are the sort who practices with premium carry ammo.
 
I have a G32 and like it, for me it is more my woods/walk around gun mainly because of its flat shooting trajectory. I would not hesitate to press it into use on deer sized game if circumstances required it and its manageable recoil and capacity would serve against black bear or pot farmer if needed.
It may over penetrate at SD ranges but there are many 357's carried daily with similar ballistics.
 
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