I was thinking, is .357 Sig a good carry?

[IL Guns]

Yes both the Secret Service and Air Marshals carry the P229 in 357 sig. The Secret Service also carries the FN five-seven. The Secret Service also has MP5s and the FN P90 and god knows what. They also have no worries about budgets and their principle objective is to protect the POTUS or other high ranking officials. Collateral damage is to be expected if an attempt is made on the Presidents life or an airplane is being hijacked. In those scenarios you want as much concealed firepower as possible. Does that make the 357 sig or 5.7 round good for carry? No, both are expensive and too powerful for your average citizen who will be held 100% responsible for any collateral damage. Add to that both agencies train, train, train and the train some more and never have to worry about cost.
Basically both are niche rounds that are too powerful for concealed carry as is the 10mm. I personally like all three but would not use one as my concealed carry caliber and I have two 10mm handguns.

 

[Warp]

Yes both the Secret Service and Air Marshals carry the P229 in 357 sig. The Secret Service also carries the FN five-seven. The Secret Service also has MP5s and the FN P90 and god knows what. They also have no worries about budgets and their principle objective is to protect the POTUS or other high ranking officials. Collateral damage is to be expected if an attempt is made on the Presidents life or an airplane is being hijacked. In those scenarios you want as much concealed firepower as possible. Does that make the 357 sig or 5.7 round good for carry? No, both are expensive and too powerful for your average citizen who will be held 100% responsible for any collateral damage. Add to that both agencies train, train, train and the train some more and never have to worry about cost.
Basically both are niche rounds that are too powerful for concealed carry as is the 10mm. I personally like all three but would not use one as my concealed carry caliber and I have two 10mm handguns.

It isn't too powerful.

The difference in "power" between .357 sig, 9x19, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .45 GAP, etc, is negligible.

Besides, .357 mag is more powerful and that was a gold standard for a long time. To some people, it still is.

 

[IL Guns]

I disagree. The logic behind it was to have the same power in an automatic as a .357 magnum wheel gun. While not quite as powerful as the .357 magnum, it's close. Personally I think that is too much for carry use if you aren't an LEO.
The main problem IMO is cost and over penetration. While no expert I was under the impression that reloading bottleneck cartridges can be a PITA. Yes I am old enough to remember when the local PD carried mostly .357 magnums. It was the gold standard and a 686 Plus is what is in my nightstand right now.

 

[eldon519]

Check some expansion/penetration testing. The 357 Sig behaves almost exactly like a 9mm in gelatin. Overpenetration is not a problem. In fact it exhibits underpenetration at times, even with premium loads.

 

[Warp]

I disagree. The logic behind it was to have the same power in an automatic as a .357 magnum wheel gun. While not quite as powerful as the .357 magnum, it's close. Personally I think that is too much for carry use if you aren't an LEO.
The main problem IMO is cost and over penetration. While no expert I was under the impression that reloading bottleneck cartridges can be a PITA. Yes I am old enough to remember when the local PD carried mostly .357 magnums. It was the gold standard and a 686 Plus is what is in my nightstand right now.

That may have been the marketing logic, but .357 mag is still more powerful. .357 mag certainly isn't less powerful...to say .357 sig is too powerful to concealed carry is just silly

Cost is most certainly a major factor. So is availability.

 

[Zerodefect]

I disagree. The logic behind it was to have the same power in an automatic as a .357 magnum wheel gun. While not quite as powerful as the .357 magnum, it's close. Personally I think that is too much for carry use if you aren't an LEO.
The main problem IMO is cost and over penetration. While no expert I was under the impression that reloading bottleneck cartridges can be a PITA. Yes I am old enough to remember when the local PD carried mostly .357 magnums. It was the gold standard and a 686 Plus is what is in my nightstand right now.

"Torsos rarely have exit wounds."

If you hit an arm, the bullet can be deflected and be a threat. But any round that can be deflected by an arm has that problem. Caliber won't really solve that much. A 9mm, although weaker, it stillgoing to be deadly to a bystander in that example.

A more powerful caliber may punch through and make it to the water bucket that the COM is. But it's very unlikely for a bullet to hit COM and overpen. Unless it slides off a glancing hit, and around the rib cage.

 

[IL Guns]

I said the .357 magnum is a more powerful round so there's no argument there. As for the 357 sig over penetrating that's going to turn into a here's link that says it does and a counter link of no it doesn't. To me that would be silly. I know that a hot 10mm round will likely over penetrate and that's why I don't carry either one of mine because after the smoke clears, the questions start. Why were you carrying a 10mm? I carry for protection, not to kill or be sued and/or possibly do time. I find the 9mm to be a perfect concealed carry round. A couple of well placed shots and the fight is over. I don't feel that I'll be outgunned. With the 357 sig I feel the chance of over penetrating to be too high. I think we are just going to have to disagree on this one.

 

[Warp]

I said the .357 magnum is a more powerful round so there's no argument there. As for the 357 sig over penetrating that's going to turn into a here's link that says it does and a counter link of no it doesn't. To me that would be silly. I know that a hot 10mm round will likely over penetrate and that's why I don't carry either one of mine because after the smoke clears, the questions start. Why were you carrying a 10mm? I carry for protection, not to kill or be sued and/or possibly do time. I find the 9mm to be a perfect concealed carry round. A couple of well placed shots and the fight is over. I don't feel that I'll be outgunned. With the 357 sig I feel the chance of over penetrating to be too high. I think we are just going to have to disagree on this one.

Depends on the bullet being used. There's nothing that says a .357 mag or 10mm will over penetrate.

Besides, approximately 80% of shots fired by police or by private citizens in self defense miss the target entirely.

If by "a couple well placed shots" you mean taking out the attacker's CNS (headshot, basically), then yes, a couple well placed shots and the attacker won't be a threat to you any more.

You can disagree all you want, but there is absolutely nothing that says .357 sig as a cartridge will over penetrate where 9mm as a cartridge will not. Some 9mm will penetrate more than some .357 sig and vice versa.

 

[basicblur]

There's nothing that says a .357 mag or 10mm will over penetrate.

It's been a while since I listened to it, but I believe in the audio of the ProArms podcast posted earlier, it was stated the Richmond VA. police (who seem to have more results / cases to draw from) have been pleased with the round, and have had no problems with over penetration.

EDIT
I'm listening to the ProArms podcast - at around the 14:45 minute mark, Massad Ayoob states the Richmond, VA. police were the first to go over a dozen shootings involving the 357 SIG (Speer Gold Dot, 125 gr.) and reports were they were achieving the exact same results as they had with the 357 Magnum.

 

[Bula]

Me thinks that the .357 sig will go the way of the dodo bird. Stick to old tried and true calibers, or buy a .45 GAP. Results from pistols are known to be marginal. Stick with a +p 9mm. Not that much terminal difference.

 

[eldon519]

If you want to know what it does, just Google it. The Gold Dot load gets heavy penetration, maybe overpenetration at times. The HST and Ranger acts just like their 9mm loads. Penetration is comparable, expansion is comparable. If you have a solid grasp on terminal ballistics, that should leave you asking what you are getting in return for all the blast, recoil, and expense.

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Speer-Gold-Dot-Ammunition-Comparison.jpg

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp...eral-Premium-Tactical-HST-Ammo-Comparison.jpg

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/WinchesterRangerAmmo.gif

 

[IL Guns]

Alight I had a very long reply written in response to some of the criticisms that were written. When I went to post it , poof sign in again but it was gone.
To condense it I will take four posts from this discussion because I am not rewriting my entire reply.
Post #1- The answer is NO. You WILL clean out your bank account.
Post #3 - Nobody jumps on him and he also says it's an over penetrator.
Post #14 - Has now done a 180.
Post #58 - At 700 ft·lb and 1400 ft/sec a 10mm WILL over penetrate. It will even get you kicked off of some indoor ranges. Ask me how I know this. The two well placed shots were to center mass, not head shots. Most "gunfights" happen at 20 feet or less. As for the 80% miss rate in Chicago there is a cop who is in big trouble for going 16/16 - 100%. It is an FBI stat that most gun fights happen in seconds and the average hit rate is 2/10 so that is "FBI" true.
Now for the kicker: Is a .380 mousegun in FMJ an over penetrator? Yes it is, all 200 ft·lbs and 1000 ft/sec.
The 357 sig is a niche and expensive round that is basically a hot 9mm +P. To Sig fan boys it is the magic bullet. It will fade into obscurity.
I'll stick with my 9mm as my concealed carry.

 

[bearcreek]

I've only shot a Glock in .357 Sig, thats it. I was wondering, what is a good .357 Sig gun to use and the best ammo I can find on the market without cleaning out my bank account.

I've got a Glock 32 and like it. To be honest though I rarely shoot it in .357 Sig. I've got a Lone Wolf 9mm barrel for it and use that a lot. That's one of the nice things about it though. You can get a Glock 32 or 23 and have three barrels for it and shoot .357 Sig, .40 S&W or 9mm in the same gun.

 

[McNugget]

Yes, it is a good carry. Though it is an expensive shoot. Ammo can be sparse, I suggest handloading if you're serious. I reccomend... drumroll... a Sig.

Try 10mm before you decide.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Does that make the 357 sig or 5.7 round good for carry? No, both are expensive and too powerful for your average citizen who will be held 100% responsible for any collateral damage. Add to that both agencies train, train, train and the train some more and never have to worry about cost.

First I've ever seen the 5.7x28 round being called too powerful. It was made to underpenetrate. It doesn't cost too much more than .45 ACP either.

 

[IL Guns]

It's been a while but I used to work in Gary Indiana. I would talk to Gary cops on a pretty regular basis. They were happy that the FN Five-seven came out, it was not on their carry list BUT many Gary cops had one. They were also loaded with the SS190. The reason why? Because the gang bangers were wearing bullet proof vests. I will retract that the 5.7x28 is an over penetrator except for the SS190 armor piecing round. They were so proud of their Five-sevens that they carried pictures of them like they were there their kids.

 

[Zerodefect]

The Glocks aren't as expensive to shoot, just pick up a factory .40 barrel.

 

[IL Guns]

While I agree that dropping in a .40 barrel would take care of the cost factor, it's still a different round. For carry you want something that you practice with and you know how it's going to shoot CONSISTENTLY. That's why you always spend some cash and shoot a box or two of what your carry ammo is going to be. While many have said that the .40 is the same in recoil or even less, from my experience it's a totally different round then the .40. It has quite the kick and flash compared to a .40 IMO especially with decent SD ammo. Kind of like Buffalo Bore .40+P or 9mm+P+. $60 for 40 rounds.
357 sig in HPs are expensive but if that's going to be your carry, that's what you practice with. That gets expensive quickly like a 10mm. I had a drop in 357 sig barrel for my .40. I sold it and actually made money on it so that was a plus. My gun was taking a unnecessary beating which is not good for a polymer gun.

 

[Chuck R.]

I disagree. The logic behind it was to have the same power in an automatic as a .357 magnum wheel gun. While not quite as powerful as the .357 magnum, it's close. Personally I think that is too much for carry use if you aren't an LEO.
The main problem IMO is cost and over penetration. While no expert I was under the impression that reloading bottleneck cartridges can be a PITA. Yes I am old enough to remember when the local PD carried mostly .357 magnums. It was the gold standard and a 686 Plus is what is in my nightstand right now.

I dunno, based on this ballistic testing courtesy of AR15.com, the .357SIG (with standard SD rounds) doesn't seem to penetrate much more than other more common calibers:



http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/

I've only just begun researching it as I'm looking at getting a .357SIG barrel for my HK P2000. From what I've read, a good number of shooters familiar with both .40 and .357 SIG seem to feel the .357SIG recoils less. Again, don't know, but in my case it just means a barrel, some brass, and another set of dies for my Dillon to find out.

Chuck

 

[IL Guns]

The OP stated "the best ammo I can find on the market without cleaning out my bank account" Since he doesn't reload it can get expensive. I am done arguing about over penetration but the flash is QUITE impressive. I hope you get your barrel and then you can decide for yourself as to the recoil. I'm sick of arguing on THR. I don't post to argue plus I stated earlier that I could find something on the web to contradict anything that someone else found. Basically a link war. Link wars on forums are senseless.
Get your barrel and enjoy.

 

[Merle1]

Just make very sure you always know what's behind your targets cuz it's going to punch right on through......a human body won't hardly even slow it down. Personally I think you need to balance recoil energy on your end with terminal effect on the other end. That's a lot of energy - on both ends. I have always preferred large heavy slow bullets for the slower recoil impulse and less chance of over penetration.

You've got it backwards. Heavy bullets are much more likely to over penetrate, while speedy HPs are more likely to have LESS penetration due to expansion.

 

[Merle1]

I disagree. The logic behind it was to have the same power in an automatic as a .357 magnum wheel gun. While not quite as powerful as the .357 magnum, it's close. Personally I think that is too much for carry use if you aren't an LEO.
The main problem IMO is cost and over penetration. While no expert I was under the impression that reloading bottleneck cartridges can be a PITA. Yes I am old enough to remember when the local PD carried mostly .357 magnums. It was the gold standard and a 686 Plus is what is in my nightstand right now.

Perhaps it's too much for you - but that's not automatically true for everyone.

 

[MaterDei]

The OP gave up on this thread 10 days ago. Perhaps we should all take his lead.

 

[Merle1]

The OP gave up on this thread 10 days ago. Perhaps we should all take his lead.

What, and waste a perfectly good argument? Also, think about the poor, forgotten bears....

 

[eldon519]

For what it's worth, the links I posted are from Winchester, Speer, and Federal indicating how each of their loads typically performs against different barriers. It's not just links to some random pundit or backyard tester.