Deaf Smith
Member
Why not? They make 180 gr hard cast loads at 1050 fps and 147 gr fp-fmj at 1250 fps.
Sounds ok to me.
Deaf
I was thinking, is .357 Sig a good carry?
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Sounds ok to me.
Deaf
IF I had to confront a bear with a semi-auto (BIG IF) then you are looking at a HOT 10mm load out of a Delta Elite or Glock G20. I wouldn't go looking for a bear with a semi auto but those would be my choices. That's rifle stuff, most bears are not just going to run away if you make it mad. Getting mauled by a bear is not on my bucket list.
meanmrmustard
Member
Black bear with a 357 Sig?
I'm not in bear country, but I feel to be undergunned with anything short of a 10mm Auto or 460 Rowland in an auto loader.
I'm not in bear country, but I feel to be undergunned with anything short of a 10mm Auto or 460 Rowland in an auto loader.
Well, the particular .357 I went with for east-of-the-Mississippi woods gun carries 180gr hard cast at 1,375 fps...that's my speed for black bear
X-Rap
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Mention bear and people start peeing down their legs.
I wouldn't go looking for one armed with a 357 either. Big difference between "if needed" and "looking for".
I don't live in grizzly country and after numerous encounters I have an appreciation rather than a fear of black bears.
Bear talk here is so predictable and usually ends with small artillery pieces being the consensus from the " experts".
I wouldn't go looking for one armed with a 357 either. Big difference between "if needed" and "looking for".
I don't live in grizzly country and after numerous encounters I have an appreciation rather than a fear of black bears.
Bear talk here is so predictable and usually ends with small artillery pieces being the consensus from the " experts".
Who the heck said anything about looking for?
lol at a .357 magnum being a small artillery piece
I know I said "confront". That means I turn a corner on a path and there's a bear. I know 4 things: 1) They have bear pepper spray which is a sure way to get killed. 2) They say lay down and play dead which is a sure way to get killed. 3) For the purpose of this discussion I will consider a RPG a handgun. 4) In Bear country ALWAYS go in teams and make sure you run faster then the slowest person but if you are going to carry a semi auto, 10mm is the weakest round I would go with.
Bear spray actually isn't bad. If I was really worried about bears (as I was in Yellowstone, Rocky Mountain National Park, the Tetons, and various areas of Alaska), I carried a pistol and bear spray
Actually against a black bear it would probably make it run off. You are talking about areas where there are Grizzly's and possibly Polar bears. I'm sorry but the worst possible bear death for me would having the bear actually laughing at me before it ate me. I'm going with the RPG and leaving the bear spray to
"Dog The Bounty Hunter".
"Dog The Bounty Hunter".
I'd been watching the 357 SIG for a while to make sure it wasn't going to be an orphan round - once I decided it looks like it may stick around, when I bought my first SIG (P229R) I decided to go with it in 357 SIG for historical purposes, and I wanted something in that round to try out.
I often carry the P229R on my hip during colder weather - easier to hide, and BG's tend to wear more clothing during cold weather.
AFA hydrostatic shock, I found the comment in an old ProArms podcast interesting - they said they found while shooting swimming snakes, they could take them out by not hitting them directly, but by "close" shots.
You may want to give the old ProArms podcast on the 357 SIG a listen?
More hands-on experience rather than 'Net tales.
055 “WE’RE GETTING THE BAND BACK TOGETHER” TO DISCUSS THE .357 SIG CARTRIDGE
JULY 11, 2010
It’s been a long time since we had the whole Band together, this time we have everyone but Mike (he was up “nort”) to discuss our experiences with the .357SIG cartridge. The topic was by listener request. Learn how many state police departments have adopted it, why it can be an ideal personal protection round in rural areas, and why some of our podcast team members carry that caliber daily.
BTW - I did later buy a used M&P "police special" (extra magazine, night sights) in 357 SIG.
One of the "buy high, sell low" regulars at the shop had purchased it the month before from a police supply house and traded it in - looked like it had never been shot, and managed to get it for under $500 - one of the few impulse buys I've made in life!
I often carry the P229R on my hip during colder weather - easier to hide, and BG's tend to wear more clothing during cold weather.
AFA hydrostatic shock, I found the comment in an old ProArms podcast interesting - they said they found while shooting swimming snakes, they could take them out by not hitting them directly, but by "close" shots.
You may want to give the old ProArms podcast on the 357 SIG a listen?
More hands-on experience rather than 'Net tales.
055 “WE’RE GETTING THE BAND BACK TOGETHER” TO DISCUSS THE .357 SIG CARTRIDGE
JULY 11, 2010
It’s been a long time since we had the whole Band together, this time we have everyone but Mike (he was up “nort”) to discuss our experiences with the .357SIG cartridge. The topic was by listener request. Learn how many state police departments have adopted it, why it can be an ideal personal protection round in rural areas, and why some of our podcast team members carry that caliber daily.
BTW - I did later buy a used M&P "police special" (extra magazine, night sights) in 357 SIG.
One of the "buy high, sell low" regulars at the shop had purchased it the month before from a police supply house and traded it in - looked like it had never been shot, and managed to get it for under $500 - one of the few impulse buys I've made in life!
RedAlert
Member
The OP asked: " I was wondering, what is a good .357 Sig gun to use and the best ammo I can find on the market without cleaning out my bank account."
My personal opinion on this topic is a P239 for concealed carry and a P229 for duty use. Both accept either a .357Sig barrel and mags or a .40 S&W barrel and mags. Great versatility and have a wide range of ammo selections.
I have not had any failure to feed or function with any of the major brands of ammo I have purchased. Of course you would need to try our a few boxes of the expensive ammo to be sure it functions in your guns prior to accepting it as Concealed Carry suitable.
As to the $$ question, I never go cheap on brakes or tires and so I prefer SIGs for my personal use.
My personal opinion on this topic is a P239 for concealed carry and a P229 for duty use. Both accept either a .357Sig barrel and mags or a .40 S&W barrel and mags. Great versatility and have a wide range of ammo selections.
I have not had any failure to feed or function with any of the major brands of ammo I have purchased. Of course you would need to try our a few boxes of the expensive ammo to be sure it functions in your guns prior to accepting it as Concealed Carry suitable.
As to the $$ question, I never go cheap on brakes or tires and so I prefer SIGs for my personal use.
Deaf Smith
Member
Flfiremedic
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With a good LEATHER belt and LEATHER IWB, a P229 is quite easy to EDC...and I live in FL.
Zerodefect
member
I'm constantly in black bear country. Most are about the size of a St. Bernard dog. .357 would be fine.
The older, healthier ones, that would be tougher to drop with a pistol, are usually a bit tamer. If fact, I have little or no concern about black bears at all. Especially the one that frequent camp grounds. (I used to chase them off by banging pot pans together) It was freaky at first to share a pitch black forest with them at night. But now I'm used to them waking me up in the morning.
I don't think I've ever seen a real large one, except near campgrounds where they're purposely hanging out around people and not likely to be startled.
The purely wild ones that you see waaaaaay off road backpacking, could be tricky if they're desperate or sick. But I rarely spot them, they stay clear. You're about as likely to get hit by lightning, and be in a plane crash on the same day, as getting attacked by a black bear. They ain't grizz, or polar bears. Just don't mistake the friendly campground ones for a wild one, and run up to it with a bag of Cheetos. You'll lose an arm.
Keep in mind with bears, that a bullet may just generate a "derp" reaction. They don't understand guns, so if the noise doesn't scare them off, and you don't hit a vital, your food. And one loud noise doesn't freak them out much, just freezes them in that "derp" mode. I think a warning shot overwelms their ears and shocks them. But doesn't always generate the result you want. Repeated noise works great though.
I'd actually go for the bear spray first. That stuff is pure hell to a foot long nose. They understand that.
The older, healthier ones, that would be tougher to drop with a pistol, are usually a bit tamer. If fact, I have little or no concern about black bears at all. Especially the one that frequent camp grounds. (I used to chase them off by banging pot pans together) It was freaky at first to share a pitch black forest with them at night. But now I'm used to them waking me up in the morning.
I don't think I've ever seen a real large one, except near campgrounds where they're purposely hanging out around people and not likely to be startled.
The purely wild ones that you see waaaaaay off road backpacking, could be tricky if they're desperate or sick. But I rarely spot them, they stay clear. You're about as likely to get hit by lightning, and be in a plane crash on the same day, as getting attacked by a black bear. They ain't grizz, or polar bears. Just don't mistake the friendly campground ones for a wild one, and run up to it with a bag of Cheetos. You'll lose an arm.
Keep in mind with bears, that a bullet may just generate a "derp" reaction. They don't understand guns, so if the noise doesn't scare them off, and you don't hit a vital, your food. And one loud noise doesn't freak them out much, just freezes them in that "derp" mode. I think a warning shot overwelms their ears and shocks them. But doesn't always generate the result you want. Repeated noise works great though.
I'd actually go for the bear spray first. That stuff is pure hell to a foot long nose. They understand that.
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Alright to get serious about the OP, I think that the .357 sig is a good round but it's expensive. Given that you want to be proficient with your carry gun that means unless you are a reloader that the cost of the bullets is going to be HIGH. I like to run at least 50-100 rounds through my carry gun a month so I'm familiar with how the gun is going to shoot. This helps with follow up shots and also makes sure the gun is going to go boom when you shoot it. That means you have to run some of the ammo that you are going to use for carry through it, shooting FMJ is not the same as say a Gold Dot. Basically you want to make sure your gun isn't going to hiccup when you need it most.
From that standpoint I would say no, it's a good but expensive round to shoot. If you cannot practice with it then you do not get 100% proficiency. If you draw your gun then you have pretty much made up your mind that you are in a shooting scenario. You want to come out of this scenario alive. In that sense I think there are better choices as to caliber. As for the people that say it's a LEO round from my experience I find most cops carry a .40 or 9mm. I can say that I do not actually know of any LEO that carries a .357 sig or a 10mm for that matter. Mostly .40 and the 9mm. Proficiency with either is all you are going to need. Trust me people hit a couple times center mass with a good 9mm round do not "simply stumble, ball up, and cry". Even if they do you have accomplished what you wanted. You have neutralized the threat.
Basically a "fun round to shoot" does not necessarily correlate to a good carry round. A 10mm is also a fun round to shoot but realize that after it's all over there are going to be legal ramifications. Your gun is going to be taken and tested and you are also going for a ride to hear your side of the story. God help you if a round overpenatrated and hit somebody else. You will be on the hook financially and possibly criminally. A permit to carry does not make you a LEO. Even if the situation proves you to be 100% correct in deciding to shoot, society frowns upon killing innocent bystanders.
In conclusion if you don't want clean out the bank account, IMO a decent 9mm or .40 is the way to go. Basically carry what the police carry and be proficient and accurate. Your scenario is most likely not going to involve shooting through car doors or barriers. Basically a carry permit doesn't make you Dirty Harry. If you shoot someone you want the bullet to stay in the person. A .357 or 10mm is a bit much for the street and both are expensive as hell to shoot.
From that standpoint I would say no, it's a good but expensive round to shoot. If you cannot practice with it then you do not get 100% proficiency. If you draw your gun then you have pretty much made up your mind that you are in a shooting scenario. You want to come out of this scenario alive. In that sense I think there are better choices as to caliber. As for the people that say it's a LEO round from my experience I find most cops carry a .40 or 9mm. I can say that I do not actually know of any LEO that carries a .357 sig or a 10mm for that matter. Mostly .40 and the 9mm. Proficiency with either is all you are going to need. Trust me people hit a couple times center mass with a good 9mm round do not "simply stumble, ball up, and cry". Even if they do you have accomplished what you wanted. You have neutralized the threat.
Basically a "fun round to shoot" does not necessarily correlate to a good carry round. A 10mm is also a fun round to shoot but realize that after it's all over there are going to be legal ramifications. Your gun is going to be taken and tested and you are also going for a ride to hear your side of the story. God help you if a round overpenatrated and hit somebody else. You will be on the hook financially and possibly criminally. A permit to carry does not make you a LEO. Even if the situation proves you to be 100% correct in deciding to shoot, society frowns upon killing innocent bystanders.
In conclusion if you don't want clean out the bank account, IMO a decent 9mm or .40 is the way to go. Basically carry what the police carry and be proficient and accurate. Your scenario is most likely not going to involve shooting through car doors or barriers. Basically a carry permit doesn't make you Dirty Harry. If you shoot someone you want the bullet to stay in the person. A .357 or 10mm is a bit much for the street and both are expensive as hell to shoot.
As for bears I live in the suburbs of Chicago so we get the occasional raccoon and very rarely a coyote. I will go camping in Wisconsin but have never come across any bears. I don't want to, just not something in nature that I want to mess with. To me it's kind of like swimming where there are Great White Sharks, it's just not wise. I know that if I were in bear country I would have at the very least a .308 rifle but I do not or ever have hunt bears. For those who do I have no problem with it but it's not for me. In a pistol I would go with a 500 S&W but really I don't want to mess with any bear or have one mess with me. I just thought it funny that the thread turned into hunting bear with a 357 Sig.
rbernie
Contributing Member
This has not been my experience. The perceived recoil with the 357 Sig is noticeably greater due to the harder snap and more dramatic bang/flash, at least when choosing between my G22's and G31's.
Few people are legitimately willing to carry a .308 rifle around in their hands at all times just because they are in bear country. In fact, after several hiding and backbacking trips out west and in Alaska, I have yet to see a single person with a rifle or shotgun. Much easier said than done. Handguns and bear spray are the name of the game.
rbernie I agree, the flash is unreal. I shoot .40s all the time and personally I think the recoil of the 357 Sig is MUCH more noticeable. I don't think it's a perception as much as a fact. The truth is at the range I shoot at they are lucky if there are 50 spent casings in 357 sig a week. It's expensive to shoot so they really don't see many people on the range shooting them. It really is more for reloaders who want something different. They might sell one or two boxes of 357 ammo a month. It isn't cheap.
Warp I would have no problem with a 500 S&W and bear spray hiking. If I were hunkered down for the night there would be a .308 or 30-06 next to me in my tent especially if there were Grizzly's or Polar bears around. They are beautiful animals that can eat you whole. After watching Timothy Treadwell's watch being given to Jewel Palovak because that was pretty much all that was left of him I decided right then that if there were Grizzly's around that a rifle was a must. Bear spray would work fine in the open but in a tent it would probably have a greater effect on me. The boom from a 500 S&W would probably make me deaf for life. From my understanding Polar bears are far worse, they look at you as food and nothing else. I know the odds of being mauled are minute but so is being attacked by a deer. I have a friend who has scars from coming around a tree and getting a severe beating from a deer. He was hiking and bam, beaten to a bloody mess. Wild animals are called "wild" for a reason.
Warp I would have no problem with a 500 S&W and bear spray hiking. If I were hunkered down for the night there would be a .308 or 30-06 next to me in my tent especially if there were Grizzly's or Polar bears around. They are beautiful animals that can eat you whole. After watching Timothy Treadwell's watch being given to Jewel Palovak because that was pretty much all that was left of him I decided right then that if there were Grizzly's around that a rifle was a must. Bear spray would work fine in the open but in a tent it would probably have a greater effect on me. The boom from a 500 S&W would probably make me deaf for life. From my understanding Polar bears are far worse, they look at you as food and nothing else. I know the odds of being mauled are minute but so is being attacked by a deer. I have a friend who has scars from coming around a tree and getting a severe beating from a deer. He was hiking and bam, beaten to a bloody mess. Wild animals are called "wild" for a reason.
Elkins45
Member
Bears are very sneaky! They can creep into almost any thread and you won't see them until it's too late.
If you're a reloader then 357 Sig is cheaper than 40 and about the same an 9mm. Once fired brass is available all over the place for $40/K and the bullets are essentially the same as 9mm except you can't use bullets with the plain old 115 ball shape.
FIVETWOSEVEN
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I figure I'll just add that the Secret Service carry .357 Sig so take that however you like.
Deaf Smith
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