.38+p vs. 357 mag?
- Thread starter 12guagecody
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W.E.G.
Member
between the shirt pockets, both very effective
outside the shirt pockets, both much less effective
outside the shirt pockets, both much less effective
dashootist
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- 551
I think getting a 357 gun and using 38 round isn't very smart. 357 guns are heavier, more clumsy than your 38 guns. This affects your draw and aim speed. If you are going to be slowed down by a clumsy 357 gun, you might as well shoot the more powerful rounds to make up for it. I don't have a pair of working man's arm, so I much prefer a lighter 38 gun, like S&W 67.
amd6547
Member
I like the 357mag, and have NO problem firing it accurately and quickly. No problem with the 38spl, I use it all the time.
I own an L frame 686 4", which is my main house revolver. I also own a Model 19 2.5". There are those who say the 357mag does not perform in short barrels. Well, though I dont have a chrono, I can say without a doubt that 357mag loads hit harder than any 38spl load I have tried when firing both loads through that 2.5" barrel.
I own an L frame 686 4", which is my main house revolver. I also own a Model 19 2.5". There are those who say the 357mag does not perform in short barrels. Well, though I dont have a chrono, I can say without a doubt that 357mag loads hit harder than any 38spl load I have tried when firing both loads through that 2.5" barrel.
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TexasBill
Member
I am amazed at the folks who buy one of the scandium-framed S&W J-frame Magnums or the Ruger LCR Magnum: that's not self-defense; it's self-abuse. And heaven help you if you have to use it a night. If you're lucky, the BG will be blinded, too, giving you some time to recover for a second shot.
I have a Model 60 with a 3-inch barrel. I have fired a 50-round box of Magnums through it. I also have a Model 637 Airweight and have fired a box of .38 Special +P through it. I switched the Model 60 to +P and the Model 637 to .38 Special and have been much happier.
I have a Model 60 with a 3-inch barrel. I have fired a 50-round box of Magnums through it. I also have a Model 637 Airweight and have fired a box of .38 Special +P through it. I switched the Model 60 to +P and the Model 637 to .38 Special and have been much happier.
A scandium j frame is VERY abussive compared to the LCR in my side by side testing. 357 is very controllable for me in the LCR. Some can tolerate it, some can't I guess. You probably have something on the low light shooting as I have not touched off any of my SD ammo out of my snubs yet. I could have my RO shut the lights off next time I'm in there ti check it out.
What may be abussive for you isn't necessarily for me!
Drew
What may be abussive for you isn't necessarily for me!
Drew
oldfool
Member
hair splitting there methinks, friend
some us would have trouble noticing any difference in hand between our model 19/66 flavors and your 67, but think of ours as being "real" 357s anyway, you know (sez so right on the barrel)
what's not to love about k-frames !
the non-clumsy magnum ??
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oldfool
Member
will the real 357 (cartridge) please stand up ?
face it folks, there is no ONE real 357 cartridge, there are dozens
you could say, any max SAAMI load for a given bullet weight is the "real" thing, but some folks on gun forums dispute even that
last time I looked, SAAMI doesn't even define 38+P
so would the "real" 38+P please stand up ?
and would the real 38sp load please stand up ?
which boutique sells the best-of-best ?
answer = whichever one you take on a date
if we were into golf, folks would be obsessed with which golf ball is best
if we were into fishing, folks would argue over which fly pattern is best for rising rainbows
nothing wrong with that, it's all part of having a serious interest in whatever you do
but we do tend to easily forget that there is no "best" cartridge or gun
"best" in hand gunning comes from matching up the combination in balance
your hand
your gun (frame, weight, length, grips, etc. etc.)
your cartridge
there is only "best-for-you" (and hits really do count more than misses)
me, I never could relate to folks who actually like hot 357 loads in airweight snubbies
but if it works for you, then I say "more power to you !"
(me, I don't even wear boutique jeans or tee shirts)
PS
nobody here has yet said the 38sp "hits harder and moves faster" than 38+P, nor that 38+P "hits harder and moves faster" than 357
those who have not yet fired a "real" 357 load out of a snubbie in real low light, indoors with no ears on, ought try that and see (?)
educational
(well, use at least some "light" ears, lest ye do yourself permanent harm)
might even oughta try that 1st with 22WMR, before taking the leap
face it folks, there is no ONE real 357 cartridge, there are dozens
you could say, any max SAAMI load for a given bullet weight is the "real" thing, but some folks on gun forums dispute even that
last time I looked, SAAMI doesn't even define 38+P
so would the "real" 38+P please stand up ?
and would the real 38sp load please stand up ?
which boutique sells the best-of-best ?
answer = whichever one you take on a date
if we were into golf, folks would be obsessed with which golf ball is best
if we were into fishing, folks would argue over which fly pattern is best for rising rainbows
nothing wrong with that, it's all part of having a serious interest in whatever you do
but we do tend to easily forget that there is no "best" cartridge or gun
"best" in hand gunning comes from matching up the combination in balance
your hand
your gun (frame, weight, length, grips, etc. etc.)
your cartridge
there is only "best-for-you" (and hits really do count more than misses)
me, I never could relate to folks who actually like hot 357 loads in airweight snubbies
but if it works for you, then I say "more power to you !"
(me, I don't even wear boutique jeans or tee shirts)
PS
nobody here has yet said the 38sp "hits harder and moves faster" than 38+P, nor that 38+P "hits harder and moves faster" than 357
those who have not yet fired a "real" 357 load out of a snubbie in real low light, indoors with no ears on, ought try that and see (?)
educational
(well, use at least some "light" ears, lest ye do yourself permanent harm)
might even oughta try that 1st with 22WMR, before taking the leap
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amd6547
Member
Well, my S&W 686 4" does feel quite a bit different from my Model 15-3. The Model 15-3 is my gold standard for fast handling and light weight with excellent accuracy. My Model 19-4 2.5" handles very similarly. But, while the 686-1 feels heavier at first, the more I handle and shoot it, the better it feels. Particularly while shooting. I think it is just a matter of familiarity. I was shooting the 686-1 last week with hot DoubleTap 125gn BondedCore, and UMC 125gn SP magnum loads, as well as Hornady FTX 140gn magnum...It handled all three beautifully. Excellent accuracy, and rapid fire. The Hornady FTX load was particularly impressive...so much so, that have it loaded with that round right now with a spare speedloader.
oldfool
Member
my 6" 66s handle 38, 38+p, and 357 all real well, too, no difference in my hand, other than report
but I have been shootin' 'em for a lot of years
I wouldn't run 125 gr hot/fast 357s thru my k-frames, no
a fellow ought know his limitations (and those of his gun)
J/K/L/N frames, all good, what's not to love !
but I have been shootin' 'em for a lot of years
I wouldn't run 125 gr hot/fast 357s thru my k-frames, no
a fellow ought know his limitations (and those of his gun)
J/K/L/N frames, all good, what's not to love !
roaddog28
Member
I disagree. Here is my S&W model 13-2 4 inch and my model 10-14 4 inch. The model 13 is a 357 magnum. S&W took the model 10-6 and modified for LE and created the model 13. It handles just like my model 10 heavy barrel. Also weighs the same.
Model 13
Model 10
MagnumDweeb
Member
.357 loads seem wimpy nowadays. I own a Ruger GP100 6" and a SP101 3". The only loads that get my blood pumping are the Doubletap loads I buy from time to time, granted I wouldn't use them for SD out of fear of a jury being mislead by a scum bag prosecutor.
My usual carry is a .357 Rosi 461 2" that I load with the Winchester .357 110 grain JHPs I buy at Wally World. After a bit it got real easy to put a 50 round box down range no trouble. I like to open up the gun firing as fast as I can at a ten yard target and get that ten inch snail shell pattern as I fight to keep six shots fired as fast as I can sights unseen.
I was told once upon a time the .357 magnum was supposed to get 1400 fps out of a 6 inch barrel with a 158 grain bullet. But so many loads are less than 1250 fps so I don't know how they can be considered "magnums" when there are +P 9mm loads that can outdo them.
Did the gun industry get together and agree to make ammo weaker so they can sell weak guns, or trim cost on ammo.
My usual carry is a .357 Rosi 461 2" that I load with the Winchester .357 110 grain JHPs I buy at Wally World. After a bit it got real easy to put a 50 round box down range no trouble. I like to open up the gun firing as fast as I can at a ten yard target and get that ten inch snail shell pattern as I fight to keep six shots fired as fast as I can sights unseen.
I was told once upon a time the .357 magnum was supposed to get 1400 fps out of a 6 inch barrel with a 158 grain bullet. But so many loads are less than 1250 fps so I don't know how they can be considered "magnums" when there are +P 9mm loads that can outdo them.
Did the gun industry get together and agree to make ammo weaker so they can sell weak guns, or trim cost on ammo.
Harley Quinn
Member
I believe they made them according to recent tech that was not there in days of old and higher tempetures being considered or lower when using the factory ammo...
You want to go higher that is what Handloading is all about... But then all gunmakers tell you not to do that in their product also...
So the slick willie goes ahead and raises the pressure by bad handloading or improper others...
Then contacts the company and wants a new gun or will sue
Pretty sad really, what is being seen in real estate and loaning money and the greed and wrong doing...But the manufactures of ammo and firearms have been subjected to that for a very long time, regarding....
I was just shooting this one day at the range and it blew up, have no idea...Well they send it to a lab and it proves beyond a doubt the powder that did the deed was not theirs (make special powder for that purpose some mention Hmmm)
Anyway the firearms are better than ever, more reloading is my thought why problems occur...
Why if you go to a range you have to shoot the ammo in the rentals they loan that they sell...Some slick willie will put their own round in to see if it blows or not...Then the suits begin
You want to go higher that is what Handloading is all about... But then all gunmakers tell you not to do that in their product also...
So the slick willie goes ahead and raises the pressure by bad handloading or improper others...
Then contacts the company and wants a new gun or will sue
Pretty sad really, what is being seen in real estate and loaning money and the greed and wrong doing...But the manufactures of ammo and firearms have been subjected to that for a very long time, regarding....
I was just shooting this one day at the range and it blew up, have no idea...Well they send it to a lab and it proves beyond a doubt the powder that did the deed was not theirs (make special powder for that purpose some mention Hmmm)
Anyway the firearms are better than ever, more reloading is my thought why problems occur...
Why if you go to a range you have to shoot the ammo in the rentals they loan that they sell...Some slick willie will put their own round in to see if it blows or not...Then the suits begin
jhvaughan2
Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2009
- Messages
- 182
Here we go again...
As I've said before...
The question of "is the .38sp 'enough' for personal protection" an absurd one that comes from too much time on the internet. The factor that outweighs all others for whether your firearm is "good enough" is if you have it, and can really use it, when you need it.
1) The odds of needing it are very very low.
2) The odds that your attacker will be hyped up on military secret performance enhancing drugs, and wearing body armor is very low of the above very low.
3) The odds of needing to legally shoot through a door, car, wall, or at a distance greater than 7 yards is very low of the above very low.
The odds of getting struck by lightning is far greater than you needing more than a handy .38. So if you want to really protect yourself -- stay indoors.
The .38 special was stoping the bad guys for 70 years before we realized it was not enough to stop the bad guys.
The only place a .38 special will not kill someone is on the internet.
As I've said before...
The question of "is the .38sp 'enough' for personal protection" an absurd one that comes from too much time on the internet. The factor that outweighs all others for whether your firearm is "good enough" is if you have it, and can really use it, when you need it.
1) The odds of needing it are very very low.
2) The odds that your attacker will be hyped up on military secret performance enhancing drugs, and wearing body armor is very low of the above very low.
3) The odds of needing to legally shoot through a door, car, wall, or at a distance greater than 7 yards is very low of the above very low.
The odds of getting struck by lightning is far greater than you needing more than a handy .38. So if you want to really protect yourself -- stay indoors.
The .38 special was stoping the bad guys for 70 years before we realized it was not enough to stop the bad guys.
The only place a .38 special will not kill someone is on the internet.
If you can handle the .357 magnum effectively, it would be my pick. A lot more muzzle energy than the .38 special +p. To me, any .357 magnum load is easy to shoot in a GP 100 -- the only one that feels slightly warm is Cor Bon's black bear load (200 grains @ 1200 fps). But that isn't a load for SD anyway. IMO, you want something in the 125-158 grain range that delivers good muzzle energy, and uses one of the better hollow points.
Having said that, the .38 spl +p is effective too. It just isn't IMO as effective as a .357 magnum.
Having said that, the .38 spl +p is effective too. It just isn't IMO as effective as a .357 magnum.
Waywatcher
Member
.357 is obviously superior downrange, the key is getting it there effectively.
FWIW, I put 1500 rounds of .38 specials before I moved up to .357 in my GP100 4".
FWIW, I put 1500 rounds of .38 specials before I moved up to .357 in my GP100 4".
Harley Quinn
Member
Below quote is just very good training and positve way to learn and not be burned out with going straight to .357 as many have and ended up selling or shooting 38's only...But if they do it enough 38 shooting they will be able to handle the .357 ok...IMHO But go for a revolver or the DE that is heavier...
DE is a little heavy but if you have the XIX you can shoot the 357 on up to the 50 AE and 440 Corbon...Some have the barrels worked on for relief in shooting at range and hunting...Would never carry a compensated weapon for self defense though...
Some have done that in .357, big mistake...
...But if they do it enough 38 shooting they will be able to handle the .357 ok...IMHO But go for a revolver or the DE that is heavier...DE is a little heavy but if you have the XIX you can shoot the 357 on up to the 50 AE and 440 Corbon...Some have the barrels worked on for relief in shooting at range and hunting...Would never carry a compensated weapon for self defense though...
Some have done that in .357, big mistake...
oasis618
Member
For self-defense they will both make the BG equally dead. Self-defense isn't at 50 yards, it's at very close range.
amd6547
Member
If a bad guy is shooting at me from 50yds, I ain't trusting to running.
Waywatcher
Member
50 yards is not very far.
We won't get to pick what an engagement might look like.
It's very easy to imagine a scenario that requires a 50 yard shot, but 50 yard shots are not exceedingly difficult. If you have problems hitting a target at 50 yards I humbly suggest more practice.
We won't get to pick what an engagement might look like.
It's very easy to imagine a scenario that requires a 50 yard shot, but 50 yard shots are not exceedingly difficult. If you have problems hitting a target at 50 yards I humbly suggest more practice.
50 yards is a VERY far shot for SD!
Give me a break, most people cant make that shot with no pressure on them to begin with. MAybe youre an exceptional shot, maybe your an internet cowboy, how should I know. What I do know is you would be hard pressed to come up with a REALISTIC scenario where that type of shot with a SD pistol would be warranted.
Thank you for your humble suggestion, I shal start on it right away (sarcasm).
Give me a break, most people cant make that shot with no pressure on them to begin with. MAybe youre an exceptional shot, maybe your an internet cowboy, how should I know. What I do know is you would be hard pressed to come up with a REALISTIC scenario where that type of shot with a SD pistol would be warranted.
Thank you for your humble suggestion, I shal start on it right away (sarcasm).
My 642 is loaded with .38 +p (135gr gold dots)
My 6" 686p is loaded with .357 mag.
Given the choice I prefer .357 mag but only if it's in a large enough frame gun that I can shoot it accurately and enough barrel (~4" or more) that it can live up to its potential. Out of a snubbie I'm fine with .38 +p.
My 6" 686p is loaded with .357 mag.
Given the choice I prefer .357 mag but only if it's in a large enough frame gun that I can shoot it accurately and enough barrel (~4" or more) that it can live up to its potential. Out of a snubbie I'm fine with .38 +p.
Waywatcher
Member
Drew,
If you want to be taken seriously, I highly recommend making a solid contribution to this forum before running your mouth off.
A few high profile examples:
A mall shooting.
A parking lot shooting.
A school shooting.
These have all happened, and will more than likely happen again. They could easily involve shooting at extended distances, perhaps 50 yards, perhaps farther.
Simply believing that it can't happen, won't make it so, unfortunately.
If you want to be taken seriously, I highly recommend making a solid contribution to this forum before running your mouth off.
A few high profile examples:
A mall shooting.
A parking lot shooting.
A school shooting.
These have all happened, and will more than likely happen again. They could easily involve shooting at extended distances, perhaps 50 yards, perhaps farther.
Simply believing that it can't happen, won't make it so, unfortunately.
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