.38 short - who knew?

[Autodidactic]

I often wonder if there is a place for a shorter .38 like .38 Short Colt or .38 S&W in modern times. On one hand you get more penetration, but on the other the .32's give adequate penetration, lower recoil, and generally a higher capacity.

Where a .38 Short Colt would find a niche is in tube fed lever actions as they would increase the capacity of the tube by quite a few rounds. Nobody really seems interested in the idea of a lever action that holds 15 or 20 rounds tho, so whatever.

Also, the .38 short or similar gives lower recoil for those who want that, with more power and diameter than a .22 LR.

 

[mcb]

Look up the very short lived cartridge 9mm Federal. It was basically a 38 Short Colt loaded to 9mm pressures. 38 Short Colt has nearly identical case volume to 9mm you just have to have a gun that can handle the pressure. My competition 38 Short Colt is approaching 30 ksi but I am shooting them in a 357 Mag.

A revolver built from the ground up for a high pressure 38 Short Colt or 38 S&W would be very nice revolver but the ammo dangerous for older revolvers.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I often wonder if there is a place for a shorter .38 like .38 Short Colt or .38 S&W in modern times. On one hand you get more penetration, but on the other the .32's give adequate penetration, lower recoil, and generally a higher capacity.

Where a .38 Short Colt would find a niche is in tube fed lever actions as they would increase the capacity of the tube by quite a few rounds. Nobody really seems interested in the idea of a lever action that holds 15 or 20 rounds tho, so whatever.

Put a bobbed hammer I-frame .38S&W in your left hand; now put a bobbed hammer J-frame .38Spl in your right hand. Feel the difference? Now put each in your pockets. Feel the difference? A “short” .38 built for 20+kpsi would definitely have a place; but only if it couldn’t be chambered in a gun built for 15kpsi max.

 

[TTv2]

Put a bobbed hammer I-frame .38S&W in your left hand; now put a bobbed hammer J-frame .38Spl in your right hand. Feel the difference? Now put each in your pockets. Feel the difference? A “short” .38 built for 20+kpsi would definitely have a place; but only if it couldn’t be chambered in a gun built for 15kpsi max.

I can do better than that by putting a 7oz H&R Young America in one hand and a Ruger LCR or a Charter Undercoverrette in the other. It feels lighter than air, but my point is that if you give me the choice between a short .38 and a .32 S&W or S&W Long I'm gonna take the .32 because so long as it meets the 12 inch penetration minimum, that's all that's needed.

Also, once we get to pressures under 20K PSI and snub barrels we've reached a territory where you're giving up any chance of a hollow point expanding and are relying on penetration with the possibility of tissue disruption if the fluted Lehigh bullets are used. At that point I see no difference between a .38 Short/S&W or a .32 S&W Long other than .039" of diameter.

At least with a .38 Short Colt it can be shot in a .38 Special or .357, but would it actually move enough guns that ammo would be available and affordable? I doubt it and when .32 wadcutters are $18 a box and used in competition shooting... I just don't see a future for a short .38.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I can do better than that by putting a 7oz H&R Young America in one hand and a Ruger LCR or a Charter Undercoverrette in the other. It feels lighter than air, but my point is that if you give me the choice between a short .38 and a .32 S&W or S&W Long I'm gonna take the .32 because so long as it meets the 12 inch penetration minimum, that's all that's needed.

Also, once we get to pressures under 20K PSI and snub barrels we've reached a territory where you're giving up any chance of a hollow point expanding and are relying on penetration with the possibility of tissue disruption if the fluted Lehigh bullets are used. At that point I see no difference between a .38 Short/S&W or a .32 S&W Long other than .039" of diameter.

At least with a .38 Short Colt it can be shot in a .38 Special or .357, but would it actually move enough guns that ammo would be available and affordable? I doubt it and when .32 wadcutters are $18 a box and used in competition shooting... I just don't see a future for a short .38.

You reversed my statement. I specifically asked about and stated pressures 20+! kpsi. Not at and below but at as a minimum and above as an average.

 

[TTv2]

You reversed my statement. I specifically asked about and stated pressures 20+! kpsi. Not at and below but at as a minimum and above as an average.

So basically a short .38 loaded to .38+P? I could see it, ammo makers would be hesitant to make the ammo out of fear the ammo would wind up in a M1892, but it's not so much pressure the guns would blow up.

Someone mentioned 9mm Federal, a rimmed version of the 9mm... I think that has a lot more potential to become a thing because if the cylinder were cut for moon clips it would allow rimless 9 to be used. I would just change the name of it to 9mm Auto Rim.

 

[ThomasT]

Someone mentioned 9mm Federal, a rimmed version of the 9mm... I think that has a lot more potential to become a thing because if the cylinder were cut for moon clips it would allow rimless 9 to be used. I would just change the name of it to 9mm Auto Rim.

Just because you change the name doesn't mean some idiot wont try it in a gun made for 38S&W. My friend has an old top break in 38S&W and the gun genius at the gun store found that 38 Super would chamber and the slight rim would provide head space. So thats what he shoots in it. I even shot one cylinder full myself. I guess the over sized chamber and oversize bore kept the pressure down enough to prevent the gun from blowing up. And believe it or not the stupid thing was decently accurate.