38 Special +P loads

[38Caliber]

I wish to load 38 Special +P using Winchester 231 powder, a 125 gr copper plated bullet in a 357 magnum S&W 6 inch revolver. Technical support at Hodgdon recommends 5.3 gr of powder. Does anybody out there have experience in loading this caliber with a larger powder charge than 5.3 gr of W-231 powder?
PS...Winchester 231 is identical to Hodgdon HP-38 powder

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I wish to load 38 Special +P using Winchester 231 powder, a 125 gr copper plated bullet in a 357 magnum S&W 6 inch revolver. Technical support at Hodgdon recommends 5.3 gr of powder. Does anybody out there have experience in loading this caliber with a larger powder charge than 5.3 gr of W-231 powder?
PS...Winchester 231 is identical to Hodgdon HP-38 powder

Lyman’s 48th Ed.


5.4gr is the maximum for a .38Spl +P and in my experience accuracy is the biggest limiting factor. At +P velocities plated bullets tend to wonder.

W231 is a good powder but not terribly forgiving if you start approaching a compressed load. Fortunately the .38Spl is plenty large. Unfortunately not all of the manufacturers bases are designed for magnum pressure so you’re running the risk of losing case life to expanded primer pockets.

Just double check that the bullet you’re using isn’t going to seat significantly deeper than the one you have data for and it’s not going to spin itself into a spatter of lead fragments at +P velocities.

 

[2ndtimer]

The Speer No. 12 manual shows a max charge of 5.9 gr of W-231 with a 125 gr bullet for .38 Special +P. In a quality .357 Magnum revolver, I would not worry too much running at that level or a little higher. If you want top velocity in that cartridge, consider picking up some Unique, Power Pistol or Vihtavuori 3N37.

 

[38Caliber]

Thanks for the good advice. I am using this caliber at a Pin Range and my 38 reload needs a little more oomph to knock the plate over. The range does not allow magnum loads.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Thanks for the good advice. I am using this caliber at a Pin Range and my 38 reload needs a little more oomph to knock the plate over. The range does not allow magnum loads.

Ah, bowling pins. Tons of fun! You’ll probably end up gravitating to a heavier weight bullet but use what you’ve got getting started. Good luck!

 

[mdi]

FWIW, in the +P listings I've seen there is only one load given. Normally when only one load is listed, it is the maximum and should be reduced by 10% to start...

 

[film495]

not for nothing, but if you want to knock the plate over, don't you want to use a 158 grain projectile, which is the common weight for.38 and .357 bullets. fun experiment to see what combination actually knocks the plate over. they probably don't want magnum loads, because velocity is what can damage a plate, so - I can't see anyone having any issue if you just shoot a heavier projectile be that in a .38 or .357 case, and figure out how much powder you need to get the plate to fall over.

 

[38Caliber]

not for nothing, but if you want to knock the plate over, don't you want to use a 158 grain projectile, which is the common weight for.38 and .357 bullets. fun experiment to see what combination actually knocks the plate over. they probably don't want magnum loads, because velocity is what can damage a plate, so - I can't see anyone having any issue if you just shoot a heavier projectile be that in a .38 or .357 case, and figure out how much powder you need to get the plate to fall over.

Thanks for the advise…..That is just what I am experimenting with but I have a lot of 125 gr projectiles on hand…

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Thanks for the advise…..That is just what I am experimenting with but I have a lot of 125 gr projectiles on hand…

Just keep in mind the object is to push the pin off the table, NOT turn it into splinters.

 

[Docendo Discimus]

I wish to load 38 Special +P using Winchester 231 powder, a 125 gr copper plated bullet in a 357 magnum S&W 6 inch revolver. Technical support at Hodgdon recommends 5.3 gr of powder. Does anybody out there have experience in loading this caliber with a larger powder charge than 5.3 gr of W-231 powder?
PS...Winchester 231 is identical to Hodgdon HP-38 powder

Hodgdon 26th edition page 660 and 661. Use at your own risk.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Sorry, believe it or not I have never loaded a bullet which weighs less than 135gr in a .38 Special. Most of my data is for 158gr bullets.

I trust Lyman and their limit is 5.4gr W231 under a 125gr jacketed bullet. Plated bullets are a little different. I would think since the Lyman manual lists 18,000+ psi for the 5.4gr charge with a jacketed bullet the pressures will be a little higher with the plated bullet but not over 20,000 psi. I personally would not exceed 5.4gr W231.

If you want more velocity and energy without going over the pressure limits you could always go to a slower powder. A powder like HS-6 will add over 100fps thus producing more energy hitting the target.

Edit to replace typo, I trust Lyman, not I tried Lyman. Sorry...

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I tried Lyman and their limit is 5.4gr W231 under a 125gr jacketed bullet. Plated bullets are a little different. I would think since the Lyman manual lists 18,000+ psi for the 5.4gr charge with a jacketed bullet the pressures will be a little higher with the plated bullet but not over 20,000 psi

You might want to check that. Lyman’s 48th lists 18,300 CUP for 5.4gr of W231 as the +P load. I know there’s some coincidental points of interest where CUP = PSI but I don’t think this is one of them.

 

[eddiememphis]

Do you have any SWCs? The sharp edges are less likely to glance off the pin than a round nose.

 

[.45Coltguy]

Sorry, believe it or not I have never .loaded.a bullet which weighs less than 135gr in a .38 Special. Most of my data is for 158gr bullets.

I tried Lyman and their limit is 5.4gr W231 under a 125gr jacketed bullet. Plated bullets are a little different. I would think since the Lyman manual lists 18,000+ psi for the 5.4gr charge with a jacketed bullet the pressures will be a little higher with the plated bullet but not over 20,000 psi. I personally would not exceed 5.4gr W231.

If you want more velocity and energy without going over the pressure limits you could always go to a slower powder. A powder like HS-6 will add over 100fps thus producing more energy hitting the target.

Yeah, agree with the first sentence here. My .38 spl+P load is 5.0gr Unique under a Missouri 158gr coated rnfp. This is a very good load in my 6.5" BH.

 

[38Caliber]

Thank you all for the information. I am going to try a heavier bullet ie Cu-plated 158 gr as was shown in the manual!

 

[mkl]

deleted. trying to figure out the copy function.

 

[mkl]

My standard load in the .38 Special has been 5.0 grains of Unique for the last 40 years. Does not seem to matter what bullet weight I put in front of it; good accuracy and not oppressive recoil. I don't use this in J-frame size guns because of the potential wear.

Although the laws of physics disagree with me I think the momentum of a heavy bullet has more "knock down" power than the kinetic energy of the faster and lighter bullet. Example: my 45-70 405 gr bullet puts a deer down faster than my 165 gr 30-06.

Try a heavier bullet with 5.0 grains of Unique.

 

[jmorris]

Does anybody out there have experience in loading this caliber with a larger powder charge than 5.3 gr of W-231 powder?

I don’t but if I am trying to get more out of a round that has as much case volume as the 38 spl, I pick slower powders.

 

[38Caliber]

I am trying to use up a large volume of plated 125gr bullets with W-231 powder with a S&W Model 686 6 inch barrel, all for the purpose of knocking over steel PINS

 

[FLIGHT762]

The Speer No. 12 manual shows a max charge of 5.9 gr of W-231 with a 125 gr bullet for .38 Special +P. In a quality .357 Magnum revolver, I would not worry too much running at that level or a little higher. If you want top velocity in that cartridge, consider picking up some Unique, Power Pistol or Vihtavuori 3N37.

^^ What he said. ^^ The latest Speer manual shows a .357 Magnum loading using a 125 jacketed bullet with W-231 starting @ 7.6 grs with a max of 8.3 grs. You're using a strong L frame revolver. With .38 special cases, and loads of 231 with your 125 plated bullets running 5.5 grs to 5.9 or so will probably work fine for what you going to use them for. You could go a little higher if you want to with the Revolver you're using them in.

Load a few @ 5.5 and a few @ 5.9. Since you have the components, use them up. I've been using up some old 231, Alcan 5 and Alcan 7 with the Berry 125 plated bullets in .38 Special. When I use up all of the old powders, I'm moving on to Alliant BE-86 for both .38 Special and 9MM.

I don't have my reloading data with me right now, but I did some testing with 231 in 38 Special cases using the 130 gr Federal HST. I believe the load was about 5.5 grs of 231. I shot them in a J frame S&W 340 PD for defense loads. That load was snappy and worked for me.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I am trying to use up a large volume of plated 125gr bullets with W-231 powder with a S&W Model 686 6 inch barrel, all for the purpose of knocking over steel PINS

Steel pins? Sorry, I assumed bowling pins.

 

[38Caliber]

I have been using 5.5 gr W-231 with 125 gr Rainier Cu plated bullet. I plan to increase powder charge slowly by 1-2 gr until I get to 5.9 grains

 

[38Caliber]

I have been using 5.5 gr W-231 with 125 gr Rainier Cu plated bullet. I plan to increase powder charge slowly by 1-2 gr until I get to 5.9 grains

Let me know how the 5,9 gr load works out…38Caliber

 

[FLIGHT762]

^^^ So, you just asked yourself to let yourself know how the 5.9 gr. load works out?? ^^^

 

[38Caliber]

Please let me know how the W 231 5.9 gr with a 125 gr projectile works out.
38Caliber