.38 Special specific guns vs. .38 Special in a .357

[cfullgraf]

This carbon ring you guys worry about. I think its either over blown or I am shooting really clean ammo.

The carbon ring is a bit over blown mostly by the gun-zine scribes. But it is real if you shoot enough short cased ammunition. What's enough? I've never heard a number.

In the early days with my Model 19, I never experienced chambering issues with 357 Magnum after shooting a bunch of 38 Special. Chambers generally cleaned easily even after a few hundred rounds of 38 Special.

 

[WestKentucky]

I have shot some terribly low pressure rounds out of a .357 in 38 cases. They were slow and weak enough you could watch the bullet travel to its target and hear the thud when it hit a piece of paper. With those loads using either hp38 or 231 powders it was soothing up the cases, cylinder, and barrel really bad. I developed a bad carbon ring pretty quickly, but that was with the dirtiest crap I ever shot. It would not chamber a .357 without shoving it in by the end of the day. Carbon ring is certainly real, but it’s not a big deal either.

 

[Tallball]

Keep in mind that I only shoot 50 rounds out of any given gun in one session, or maybe 100 every once in a while...

I usually don't spend more than five minutes cleaning any of my revolvers, either. (My military-trained FiL feels that this is nearly a criminal offense.)

Each cylinder usually gets a damp patch through it, then later a dry one. That's about it.

And I have never ever seen a "carbon ring" in my 357 or 44 magnum cylinders, even though I shoot more 38's and 44 specials through them than anything else.

To me this seems similar to the "jumping the gap" thing: something that may be true in certain situations, but is WAY overhyped.

 

[Zendude]

Accuracy would probably not be affected significantly by the longer jump from what I’ve read. I don’t know if factors like cylinder-barrel alignment would affect accuracy more with a 38 than a 357 though.
There would be a slight (maybe 30 fps) loss in velocity of the 38 in a 357 cylinder vs a 38 cylinder, assuming everything else is equal. To put it in perspective though, minor differences in cylinder gap can affect velocity more than that.

 

[Bushpilot]

If there is any decrease in accuracy when shooting 38 in a 357 revolver compared to shooting 357 I can't perceive it. Not that a 357 recoils all that hard but whatever difference in accuracy potential there may be (if any) I think it is compensated for accuracy-wise by the 38's mild recoil.....

 

[bullseye308]

I don’t know, I have a S&W 67 4” and a 6” GP-100 357 and have fired thousands of 38’s in the GP-100 before getting the 67. Never noticed any difference in accuracy and had no problems cleaning the fouling ring out when I had to. Now I just shoot the 38’s in the 38 and the 357’s in the 357.

 

[GRIZ22]

@ArchAngelCD I agree with you.

Back in the 70s I remember PPC guns being made up with short cylinders and barrels with long forcing cones specifically for flush seated wadcutters.

Haven't seen any recently. I guess because they don't make that much of a difference. Maybe for someone who can shoot like the gun was locked in a Ransom Rest but not for 99.9% of shooters.

When I went through the police academy in 1974 I shot a Model 19 with probably the crappiest wadcutters reloads. They went bang but I think the bullets were pure lead. A quick scrub everyday and I could always chamber a 357.

Those who make a big deal about the "carbon ring" shooting 38s in 357s,

1. Use crappy ammo

and/or

2. Need to clean their guns more often.

JMO

 

[greg_r]

Can the bullet jump to the forcing cone from a 38 special in a 357 magnum chamber cause accuracy issues. Absolutely! Will the average shooter notice? Probably not.

Mechanically, 1/8" is huge. Say the bullet is not coincentric to the case and exits the case at an angle, the larger diameter of the chamber walls allows the bullet to continue it's cockeyed journey to the forcing cone where it strikes the forcing cone at an angle deforming the bullet. Will you notice a difference when shooting at a B27 target at 25 yards or closer? Not likely. How about a turkey silhouette at 150 meters? Very likely. This is the reasoning behind Chambers such as the 223 Wylde by the way.

As to erosion of the chamber walls by shooting a 38 special in a 357 magnum clyinder. Yes, it most definitely will happen. But again, most will not shoot enough to ever see it. Have you ever seen a revolver showing flame cutting on the top strap? How about erosion of the forcing cone? Of course it happens. What makes the metal of a revolver cylinder any different? Magic? Enough rounds through it and it will erode, but the average shooter will more likely have a problem from improper cleaning and letting the fouling build up. Or no problem at all.

For what it's worth, I own a Remington 550 that will not extract a 22 Long Rifle and a H&R revolver that will not extract a cylinder full of 22 long rifles, although it will extract one or two fired cases just fine. Both the results of several generations of family members shooting untold numbers of 22 shorts through them. They still operate just fine with 22 Shorts.

And on a newer note, a Wesson and Harrington that was rechambered to 45-120 that has an erosion ring right where the mouth of a 45-70 case rests. Probably caused by improper cleaning and shooting black powder, I do not know the history, but erosion non the less. It happens.

 

[tipoc]

Take four different brands of commercial .357 ammo with you to the range all of the same type and bullet weight. You will likely see more variation, shot to shot, when using different ammo than you will see between shooting 38 from a gun chambered in .357 Magnum.

Back in the day some bullseye shooters numbered the chambers in the cylinder because some shot better than others and they would use the best in competition. But if you are a good enough shooter at 25 and 50 yards to notice that difference while shooting one handed with a 148 gr. wadcutter at 650 fps then what type socks and shoes you wear will likely make a bigger difference.

I encourage fellas to get to where they can shoot 2-3" groups at 25 yards consistently and on demand before they begin worrying of this. For most it makes a bigger difference how many cups of coffee they have and what they ate for breakfast that day.

 

[beag_nut]

I encourage fellas to get to where they can shoot 2-3" groups at 25 yards consistently and on demand before they begin worrying of this. .

And, they must not be bench-resting!

 

[reddog81]

Mechanically, 1/8" is huge. Say the bullet is not coincentric to the case and exits the case at an angle, the larger diameter of the chamber walls allows the bullet to continue it's cockeyed journey to the forcing cone where it strikes the forcing cone at an angle deforming the bullet.

If the bullet is not seated concentric to the case your screwed either way..: Irregardless, no 38 Specials have been built with cylinders bored straight through in at least 100 years, if ever. Modern revolvers all have cylinder throats and the front of bullet will have entered the throat before the rear of the bullet leaves the case. The jump to the forcing is the same whether shooting .38 Special or .357.