.380 vs 9mm?

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My $0.02

I think the 380 is popular because people are willing to spend money on something that they think will work when they need it, and therefore brings them peace of mind. In those cases I'd say it is money well spent.

The 380 is certainly less powerful than the 9mm. That doesn't mean that the 380 isn't good enough. If the bad guy is detered or incapacitated the problem is solved. Stopped is stopped. The difference between any two pistol cartridges 32 through 45 is truely marginal (I recognize that in some situations that marginal difference might be critical but the differences are small nonetheless and the situations where the difference in outcome is due solely to differences in cartridge terminal ballistics are exceedingly rare).

380's are popular because many people would rather have a 380 pistol and some ammo than an extra $400.00 in their wallet. We vote with our dollars.

Good Luck to all and may your choices bring you peace of mind.

Dan
 
.380 is inferior to the 9mm in every way
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When one of the '.380 isn't strong enough to hurt anything' people finally volunteers to be shot by the .380 on youtube to prove their point, maybe it'll have some more traction.

After all, if you believe what you read here sometimes, they will simply need a band aid and lollipop after anyway, no big deal.
 
Makes the same sized hole as a 9mm, just not the same power. However, it has plenty of power to sling ~100 gr of lead well into a bad guy and it can be concealed comfortably in a front pocket.

.380s make for true pocket pistols... S&W BG380, LCP, P3AT, P238, DBs, Seecamps, etc. Once you move up to single stack 9mm like the LC9 and PF9 you must have really big pockets or will need to carry IWB or otherwise.
 
Ballistics,

Just summed up the whole discussion in a clear concise manner. These are the facts plain and simple. :cool:
 
Owning both....I have come to the conclusion that if I can conceal this in my pocket

R9_Sig-1.jpg

then I can also conceal the R9.... or

this one as well

Kimbersolo.gif

or this one...

BlackRose_best.jpg

Im going with the 9...it's just fine:D
 
It's all about the money---there is no other arguement now that the R9 is available. The excuse of no 9mm as small is lost forever---so that leaves it about money. If you got it--get the 9mm R9---most don't so they opt for the .380.
 
Well, I'd still argue that with a locked breech .380, you're going to get a lot more lead on target in a shorter amount of time. You simply aren't going to be able to recover from recoil as fast with a pocket 9.

That's strictly a theoretical argument, because I have not shot a Rohrbaugh.

But... look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZQLo1Zb8ss&feature=fvst

Or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3F38-wyFgw

I suspect I could get 3 or more shots on target with a .380 as fast at these guys recover from their first shot.
 
Ballistics for the .380 is better than it used to be with quality self defense ammo. Also more and more .380 pistols manufactured these days are using a locked breech which means they can be very small, controllable and racking the slide is easier.
 
Indeed, the Rohrbaugh R9 is a small gun, small for a 9 X 19, but not as small as a 1970s OMC 380. Moreover, after some 30 years my bet is that 380s are now even smaller than those old OMCs. And lastly, as KodiakBeer alluded to, the R9 may well be difficult to hold on to after that first round.
 
Just got the PF9 and love the size. Sold my LCP
Ammo price too much in my opinion. Recoil in my PF9 just as nasty as my old LCP but not that bad.the 9mm they are making these days is just awesome (size) wise.
 
I guess I'm a little out of my element on the pocket pistol front, I never really encountered a weather where I couldn't carry my Glock 27 at the smallest. Usually I went a little bigger, either the FNP-9M, 23, or PCR.


There are so many decent holsters available I can't really picture not being able to swing something aas small as the Kahr PMs in a thin IWB holster, unless you're at the gym.
 
Maybe because most Europeans are not ballistic savvy and in Europe the .380 is called 9mm Kurtz so they think it is the same as a 9x19.
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I've seen more incompetents here in the US at the LGS buying 9X17, 9X18, 9X21 and 9X23 when what they wanted was 9X19. It is also called Corto, Brevet, Kurz and several others and for years was the standard issue of European law enforcement
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again.......I like .380 caliber guns, not the caliber itself...........
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again.......I like .380 caliber guns, not the caliber itself...........
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That's the essential point, in my opinion. When you get into larger .380's (BDA sized), then you'd be much better off with a 9mm.

Only hits count. Multiple hits count for more. Multiple fast hits count for even more. So, if you're going with a pocket pistol, you're best served (in my opinion) by a .380.
 
Finding a "pocket 9" is usually more expensive, supposedly because the gun needs to be built better and can't use a blowback design like most 380s.
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I can't believe nobody has commented on this statement yet.

How many pocket .380s have come out in the last few years that are blowback operated?
Only one that I can think of (the Magnum Research .380).

ALL of the major competitors for the pocket .380 market such as:
KT P3AT, Ruger LCP, Sig P238, Kahr P380, and Diamondbak

Are all typical delayed blowback/recoil operation pistols.
The fact that a 9mm can't use a blowback operation and still fit in a pocket is irrelevant here.
 
Um, the only reason I can see to own a .380 is if you are carrying in very light material such as a pair of board shorts, running clothes, etc. You can't beat the P3AT/Ruger clone for thinness and weight.

That said, I just don't see how people have trouble pocket carrying a PM9 sized gun in any pair of jeans or slacks, except maybe the ultra tight wranglers/hipster jeans. I've been pocket carrying a PM9 for quite awhile now and I never feel uncomfortable.

As for those who've said that its easier to get more rounds on target quickly with a .380, I've got to call BS. Firing quickly, faster than one shot per second, this is what I can do with my PM9 at 15 yards after, admittedly, quite a bit of practice:

photo.jpg

And one area that nobody's mentioned, COST OF AMMO. I can buy 100 rounds of 9mm 115g WWB for 19.99 all day, every day at Walmart. Most places around here, .380 is between $15-$20 for a box of FIFTY! This is huge in my opinion.
 
The price of a 9mm Luger handgun vs. a .380 Auto is quickly made up for the higher cost of .380 Auto ammo. The difference is about 4 bucks per box of 50 Roughly after 2000 rounds, the cost gun+ammo in both calibers is the same. From then on, you start saving when shooting 9mm. That said I enjoy shooting .380 Auto but for PD the choice between 9mm and .380 is a no brainer.
 
Because there is no such thing as a true 9mm pocket gun. Trust me.
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I have carried my Kel-Tec P11 in my pocket for more than 3 years now...could not be more happy....every kind of attire..formal, business casual, short and T-Shirt....and like me many others with both P-11 and the PF-9.

If you find the KT and the Kahrs 9mm too big for pocket carry you either:

1) Are a 4' individual weighting less than 100 pounds.

2) You walk around in your underwear.


Trust me........
 
My thought on Kel-Tec P3AT is it was meant to be a BUG. I know a lot of cops used to and still do carry it as a BUG.
 
I have carried my Kel-Tec P11 in my pocket for more than 3 years now...could not be more happy....every kind of attire..formal, business casual, short and T-Shirt....and like me many others with both P-11 and the PF-9.

If you find the KT and the Kahrs 9mm too big for pocket carry you either:

1) Are a 4' individual weighting less than 100 pounds.

2) You walk around in your underwear.


Trust me........
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We all have varying levels of tolerance for weight and size in our front pockets. For me the PM9 feels like a rather heavy lead weight and looks like a bulbous tumor in the front pocket of all of my relaxed fit jeans and khakis. It's doable, but not ideal. My LCP on the other hand disappears and is so light I sometimes have to check to make sure it's still there. .380 is the way to go for pocket carry IMO. Now I just have to get my hands on a Kahr p380, one of the loveliest of pocket .380s.

I'm 5' 8" by the way and a stocky but not fat 170 pounds. ;) And nobody sees me in my undies except my wife.
 
Ammo cost is a very real concern.

... if you don't hand load.

If you hand load, 380 doesn't cost any more than 9mm, and 45 ACP is only marginally more expensive.

See my signature for more on that topic.

The ammo manufacturers are just gouging because they can.
 
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