3rd party in a Custody child swap

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Brian Williams

Brian Williams

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I assist with accompanying a woman who is in the middle of a nasty divorce.
The process, we meet the lady and walk into the Police staion with her then her husband's 3rd party walks her son in and we walk out with her after a short wait. I like to walk out first and check for all clear, then we walk with her to her car. I like to wait till she drives off and then my wife and I go home.
I have instructed my wife that if there is a problem, she is to take the son into the police staion. I would hope the woman would follow or assist. I carry either a S&W 642 or a S&W 13. What should I watch out for?
 
Not something I would be too keen to be involved with Brian ... but let's just say - situational awareness ++ - and condition orange for the tricky bits. If there was to be any trouble I'd foresee a fast moving drive-by type of attack - but that of course could occur when lady and son are already mobile and gone.

You don't mention re the father's attitude, demeanor - so I am making an assumption that it should be treated as perhaps potentially volatile.
 
You don't mention re the father's attitude, demeanor - so I am making an assumption that it should be treated as perhaps potentially volatile.
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You got that right, the Lady needs some help, sheep type with a great kid, the Local LEO's are doing a great job, but some of us at church figure best have good calm and consderate 3rd parties for her.
 
Sounds like a decent plan, but you may want to consider trying to appear as a casual passer-by instead of a "bodyguard" type. Chances are, if someone wants to hurt her or the kid they'll notice you if you're in the bodyguard role, but you'll probably easily go unnoticed if you set up shop on a park bench, the steps outside the PD, sitting in the grass, etc. Now, being in a bodyguard role may deter the person from acting against this lady, but it may just make you target #1, especially if he thinks you're sleeping with his old lady. Sounds like that wouldn't be too big a stretch for this person to think that.

I'd also be very hesitant to involve my wife at all. Granted, she's 6 months pregnant right now, but even if that were not the case, I'd make a solid plan with this lady you're helping in case of attack and maybe enlist help for the role of supporting actor to another person you felt very comfortable with. If you have kids it would be especially traumatic if daddy and mommy both took lead or whatever and left Jr(s) to the social services system.
 
Two points to consider:

1. Are there any indications the father would like to kidnap the son?

2. How does the son consider the father, and could the father talk him into running away?

Good luck, you need it.
 
I would request a LEO to meet you out front. I would also request that you be allowed to park in the "secured" area if they have a special lot for the cops, I would also request that the ex husband be required to stay in the cop shop for a set length of time after the mom leaves.

sorta like this, you and the mom park in the back, enter the station 5 minutes before he is allowed to arrive, he parks in front, you and the mom make the switch, and you leave five minutes before he is allowed to leave. reverse it for your pickup, Also inquire at the PD about you carrying during this. some might get antsy at your being armed in the PD.
 
I do try to be a casual as possible, and while the LEOs are good guys they do not have a full staff at these times, "small" community. The father is different but not likely to kidnap, the son prefers the mom.


A person can carry into the entrance of the LEO station, but not into the main station.
 
"What should I watch out for?"

Brian,

No disrespect intended, but you probably should have answered that question before getting yourself involved in this problem. I can see your position in trying to help, but from personal experience........police officers can actually be assigned to take part/assist with/be present at the "swap" to ensure it goes on problem free.

If I were you, I would back away from this situation b/c if anything ever does go down (God forbid) you are going to look bad image wise (not like a good samaritan or friend like you probably really are) and will be hung out to dry. Let law enforcement be involved, not you. You are at the police station.......they can take 30 seconds and walk outside to be sure everyone goes their own way and the peace is kept. Besides, what will this Mom do to help you if something happens and does put you in a bad position b/c of this whole thing?

Ok, rant off............now to try and answer your question. Look for people that the wife knows are acquainted with the husband or vehicles that are familiar, keep your eyes open for people just sitting and watching in nearby vehicles or who may be approaching your position on foot. You know the whole package of tell-tale signs: people with hands in pockets and maybe nervously scanning the area or fixated on your location, jackets on in warm weather, vehicles that make several passes, anything that looks like multiple actors may be preparing to strike when you leave the police station........probably nothing will happen at the station but maybe down the road when you and your wife leave Mom and she and the boy are alone.

Just my 2 cents...............this happens to be a situation that I've lived through, so I can speak from some experience unfortunately. Several things happened over time in my situation and involved a lot of things short of physical harm. That came close a number of times and even involved an LEO vs. the other party once (b/c the other party thought he was super Airborne). There was spying on me, threats, violation of court orders, a BPR put on a relative of mine who is an LEO (different from the other on-duty LEO who had the confrontation) and went with me for the swap one time to help out and found himself in a personal situation he could have done without b/c of the other side being vindictive and spiteful...........etc. I could go on and on, but I won't. It drains me to even think about those days.

Tread lightly my friend. For your sake. Let that woman get professional assistance and deal with her own mess until you are dragged into it involuntarily.
 
No disrespect intended, but you probably should have answered that question before getting yourself involved in this problem. I can see your position in trying to help, but from personal experience........police officers can actually be assigned to take part/assist with/be present at the "swap" to ensure it goes on problem free.
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I already answered the question for myself, otherwise Iwould not participate. Just looking for more ideas I had not thought of...
Local LEO are there but both sides have agreed to a "uninterested 3rd party" so I agreed to help, because the lady has little or no family nearby and our church has agreed to assist her.
 
Look into body armor, and perhaps some communications gear. Something more than a cell phone to 911, or something faster. You might also want to look into getting more help, as in more bodies/more eyes. The more people around, the less likely Dad is going to try something stupid. Actually, they don't even need to be armed, just more witnesses, more eyes to spot trouble coming, etc.

Have you discussed the situation with law enforcement, so they know what you are doing, and would know what they would be responding to if you called for assistance? Better to address it now, rather than after a problem has occurred and they are trying to sort out the pieces.
 
Consider purchasing an armored Hummer for transport to and from the swap. Also have a helicopter standing by for evac by air, with a second chopper filled with fast-roping SWAT cops, if possible. I recommend staging snipers on all nearby rooftops, in pairs. Don't forget to have armored vehicles staged and prepared to close the perimeter if the father tries to make a run for it.
 
Wisdom from Techbrute. :D

Seriously though...Techbrute doesn't leave the house unless all the above is in place.
 
I don't need all that... I have Alduro on speed dial...
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Lets not go over board and become Custody Swap Ninjas or something, I am there to be a presence for her and act as a 3rd party to observe him to see that he does not abuse or violate his PFA. This happens at the local Police station and they are great guys. They want a neutral 3rd party, i.e. sombody that she knows and trusts to be additional eyes and ears if something happens.














OBTW, I have an armor plated brief case to take the hits :what: while my wife puts together a scoped NEF take down rifle in 308. :what: :what: :D :D :D
 
They want a neutral 3rd party, i.e. sombody that she knows and trusts to be additional eyes and ears if something happens.
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So are they really neutral if they are there on behalf of the wife?
 
Good luck with all of this Brian. Sounds like you've thought through various scenarios and pretty much have bases covered.

Stay alert and expect the unexpected. You'll be fine.

Good skill.
 
Why not just do what everyone else does? Do the exchange at the police station.

Remember, by getting involved in this, you're opening yourself up for a lot of problems. While you may be the sort of person who is willing and able to do the right thing to help out someone in need, domestic situations are notoriously ugly. The lady you are helping might be the problem, not the victim. The lady you are helping might very well be the victim, but might delight in creating dramatic situations that egg the other person on. Do you want to be a pawn in that game? The lady you are helping might be the victim, and be willing to do the right thing, but might not have the strength of character or common sense to actually do it. Do you want to do everything possible for her, and suddenly have her abandon sense on a whim and toss everything out the window? Or, do you want to get involved in a phsyical altercation- or worse, a gunfight- and suddenly have love blossom again between them? Guess whose arse is hangin out in the wind when that happens? "Your honor, I told him that Jake was ok, just a little touchy. I don't know why Brian brought the gun. Jake would never hurt me." :scrutiny: THIS HAPPENS

The problem with being the third party in this is that you don't know what's going on. You know what one side has told you. And if you know one side well enough to trust their judgement, maturity and veracity, you are no longer a neutral third party- you're a friend of the victim...and unlikely to be trusted by the male half, and unable to be viewed as neutral by a jury.

Can you do this? Absolutely. Should you do this? Only if she can't do a much more simple thing...exchange the kid at the police station. Or, request that an officer be present for the exchanges until things have calmed down.

Trust me. Cops do this for a living. Its messier and more complicated (and more dangerous) than it seems. It sounds all noble and chivalrous, and appeals to our protective natures. But its just a mess waiting to happen.

Mike

PS If this sounds like I'm down on women in domestic disputes, remember that the "victim" in this one is female. Men engage in their own forms of stupidity in these situations.
 
Ah! my bad. I don't know how I missed that. The perils of skimming, I suppose.

Are there not officers present when this happens? Or is it not possible to park close enough to the station to have an short/safe walk from the station to the car?

I understand the desire to have/be a witness. That is absolutely essential to avoid the usual he-said/she-said stuff that goes nowhere in court. Its the tactical angle I don't get (even on the re-read).

Mike
 
Yes there are officers present at the desk and in and out, the walk to the car is down a ramp about 50 feet and across a 2 lane street. We park in on street parking, not 100ft from the front door to the Police station. Not real busy pedestrian traffic but enough bystanders around to be noticed.
 
If you are just an observer, do exactly that. Keep your eyes moving, and look for anything out of place. If it's at or in a police station, if anything goes down, let the cops handle it if at all possible.

Check your PM for my phone number. If you want an extra set of eyes, I'm literally just down the street.
 
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