40 S&W or 45 Auto

[GLOOB]

My personal pros and cons for reloading 40:
Pros:
1. Cheaper bullets and brass
2. SPP are used in five of the handgun calibers I load for. Six, if count 38 special and 357 as two cartridges. The only cartridge I use LPP for is 45.
3. Bullets and brass take up less space. To load the equivalent amount of 45, I have to refill my processing containers more often, and storing components and ammo takes up more space/weight in the closet and range bag.
4. 40SW cases are the perfect size for my fingers. I can reload 40 faster than any other cartridge. (They also seem to fit in the shell holders better than 9mm, which shares the same size holder; I almost never catch the case mouth on the rim of the die. That's more of a comparison between luger and 40, though.)
5. I don't need to be particular about my crimp with luger or 40. My 45 is more picky. No biggie. Just an observation.

Cons:
1. Sometimes have to debulge brass.
2. Higher pressures makes it more important to inspect brass.
3. Slightly harder to differentiate between 40 and luger brass, when sorting. I've never had a 45 case sneak into the tumbler with my luger/38.
4. Have to get the OAL just right. Even though you can theoretically load it to the same OAL as luger, the wider bullet means there's a smaller range of OAL that will function in the magazine (because the cartridges have to be able to tilt). My 45 is generally more forgiving of going too long, and 45 is inherently safer to load too short.

 

[Walkalong]

I can reload 40 faster than any other cartridge. (They also seem to fit in the shell holders better than 9mm, which shares the same size holder; I almost never catch the case mouth on the rim of the die.

If your using the same shell holder for 9MM and .40, that may be why you get some 9MM cases tilting and hitting the dies. While the two shell holders/plates are pretty close, my 9MM shell plate holds 9MM brass a little better than the .40 plate does. I do use the .40 plate for .32-20. I would like to see some specs on how the makers cut the 9MM vs .40 shell holders.

.45 brass fits my fingers perfectly, but .40 is pretty good as well. I like .45 better, and since the cost is almost the same to shoot both calibers, I prefer .45. I am down to one .40 cal gun.

 

[GLOOB]

Im loading single stage, so no plates.

Lee includes the 19 shellholder for both luger and 40 dies.

Back then, I had looked over the Lee shellholder chart for a better 9mm shellholder. IIRC, they listed another number or two as being compatible with 9mm. But looking at the other calibers these also worked for, my guess was they would be even looser. Could be wrong, though. They don't list any shellholder as working only for luger, and they recommend the #19 as the best one.

Maybe I need to buy a different brand?

 

[Walkalong]

I have bought different shell holders for the same reason. Sometimes a different one makes all the difference.

Hornady shows different shell plates and shell holders for 9MM. The specs are close enough it is hard to tell what the difference is.

 

[rbernie]

Range pickup 40S&W brass is a lot cheaper to buy, when you need it, than 45ACP. Other than that, component prices are close enough to not matter much.

 

[helotaxi]

Range pickup .40 often requires swaging to remove the Glock bulge. .45 brass is harder to come by but will last essentially forever and requires no additional prep.

I prefer the recoil impulse of the .45 as well. More of a "push" than a rapid snap. Completely a function of the higher operating pressure of the .40.

 

[Steve Koski]

Helotaxi,

I shoot exclusively range pickup .40 and have never swaged a single case. Are you speaking from experience or making stuff up? It sounds like the latter.

Koski

 

[jacksgd]

Just get one of each........

 

[rbernie]

I've never had issues with 40S&W bulge that could not be remediated with normal FL sizing or a pass thru a FCD.

 

[GLOOB]

Other than that, component prices are close enough to not matter much.

I can't agree with this, at all. Unless you're only comparing 185 grain 45 to 180 grain 40. I feel the sting even in the price difference between 155 and 180 grain bullets. I guess I'm a cheapskate! (Although for some reason Berry's 180gr are cheaper than 155gr, at PV.)

 

[Walkalong]

I have not compared .40 & .45 bullet prices lately, but when I did, it was almost the same, certainly not enough savings to offset my preference for the .45. 9MM, on the other hand........

 

[Steve Koski]

If your shooting volume is low, the price difference doesn't factor in much. If you're shooting 15,000 rounds a year and paying a $20 premium per thousand (2 cents per bullet) for .45, then it adds up to $300 extra.

 

[Remo223]

Wishful thinking. If that were true, every manufacturer wouldn't be racing to produce their own 1911. And many people won't touch 40 because they are 10mm fans. With the police? Who knows. I've seen plenty that shoot Glock 21s and P220s. Even seen the odd Lieutenant with a 1911.

As for reloads, the range I go to has enough people shooting 45 acp that don't reload, so I get 1 shot used in bulk easy. My personal favorite load for targets is just 5.0gr of Hodgdon Titegroup under a 200gr SWC or FP. Consistant and easy recoil for group hunting.

wishful thinking my backside. I'm a revolver guy so I couldn't care less what bottom feeder round is number one.

 

[GLOOB]

For $20.00 you could buy an extra range mag. Cheap is good!

The reason it seems like "nothing" is because 9mm is soooo much cheaper than either.

 

[Steve Koski]

I like the CRB way.

 

[Gryffydd]

I load for 40 S&W and can easily get velocities with a 180 grain bullet to near 1200 fps. A 155 gr. will get up around 1450 fps no problem.

I'd be very interested in hearing the recipe for these loads, the gun they were shot in, and whether a chronograph was used or it's a case of "well, the manual says...".

I've loaded 50,000+ lead bullets in .40. It wasn't hard.

No one is saying it's hard with the .40, just that it's easier with the .45.

I think saying that the .45 is easier to reload while the .40 is cheaper pretty much sums it up.

 

[Steve Koski]

Gryff,

How is .45 easier? Enlighten me. I've only loaded a few hundred .45's. Process was exactly the same as .40.

Koski

 

[Walkalong]

The .45 is easier and safer to learn on IMHO, but sure, the steps are the same.

 

[Steve Koski]

Gryff, Walkalong,

Somebody please tell me exactly WHAT is easier with the .45. Heck, tell me exactly WHAT is different.

Two guesses:
1) It might be easier to work the handle on the .45. I'm not sure. 9mms are sure a lot tougher to size than .40s, maybe .40s are tougher to size than .45s.
2) Double charge visual detection is sure easier on the .40. That is different, but the wrong way.

Thanks for the specifics,

Koski

 

[MarshallDodge]

When making this decision I went with the M&P40 and have been pretty happy with it. As far as ballistics or stopping power, the 45 only has a slight edge over the 40 in my opinion and not enough to really justify one over the other.

The main reason I picked up the 40 is that I already have a couple 1911s in 45 and 9mm does not knock down steel and bowling pins, it also does not make major without some effort. I have never had much luck with loading cast lead bullets in 9mm either where 40 seems to be much less finicky. However, 9mm is much softer shooting compared to the 40 but I have tailored my 40 loads so that I don't see a big difference.

I picked up the full size M&P40 and have had better than I expected results with 155 and 180 grain lead bullets. Accuracy is good and barrel leading is almost nil. 40 brass is so plentiful because mostly law enforcement shoot it and leave a ton around the range.

Since then I have picked up the "mid-size" M&P45 and really like it, wish S&W would make a 40 in this size as well.

 

[Walkalong]

WHAT is easier with the .45. Heck, tell me exactly WHAT is different.

Good things about .45 vs .40 for a new reloader.

1. It is a low pressure round.
a. Range brass/once fired brass is seldom over stressed.
b. If they mess up a little on a charge, or seat a bullet a little too deep, they will still generally be OK.

2. It has been around a long, long time.
a. It is easy as falling off a log to get a good load right off the bat.
b. Makes the new reloader more confident when they go out and their new loads they are so proud of shoot well.

3. Short, fat case that is easy to see the powder in.
a. Easy to see a missed charge or a double charge. (Just about a draw here though)

Just a couple of things. Purely my opinion, and subject to debate.

I would always suggest a new reloader start with .38 Spl or .45 vs some other calibers that to us are still easy to reload, and are really, but may have more things to worry about that the new reloader could do without.

Over the years I have seen lots of "What caliber would you recommend I start with?" The answers I see every time are always a lot of .38 Spl & .45 ACP, with a smattering of other calibers, and with good reason.

 

[Strykervet]

Politics aside, the 10mm fits the bill best. More velocity an KE than the .45, can be loaded to .40 specs using the same components.

I have both a G29 and G27. One is used in winter, the other in summer. Both have 10rd. capacity.

Seriously consider the 10mm. Beware the loads though, because some are capable of serious overpenetration (like the 200gr. hot loads in 10mm, particularly FMJs).

 

[helotaxi]

I shoot exclusively range pickup .40 and have never swaged a single case. Are you speaking from experience or making stuff up? It sounds like the latter.

I collect .40 brass on the off chance that one day I might have a gun to shoot it fall into my lap. A lot of the brass I have collected is visually bulged at the base. It might all have come from the same 1-2 shooters shooting old Glocks, I don't know, but I seriously doubt that RCBS, Lee and some others make a tool to fix something that I'm making up.

 

[Steve Koski]

Thanks much Walkalong.

1. So what, doesn't make any practical difference.
a. also true for .40
b. also true for .40, but I agree that the advantage goes to the .45 here.

2. So what, doesn't make any practical difference.
a. also true for .40
b. also true for .40

3. The .45 case is taller than a .40 case.

The advantage goes to the .40 here. The .45 case is taller and wider, so a typical charge of, say 6 grains Unique fills up much less height in the .45 case. The .40 case is 65% full. A double charge of Unique (12 grains) overfills a .40. It doesn't overfill a .45. With dense powders like 231 or TG the problem is worse for both cartridges, but the advantage still goes to the .40. A single charge is easier to see, and a double charge is easier to detect in .40.

A double charge with blow up either gun, so that is a draw.

I've helped many reloaders start with the .40. Pick a starting load, pull the handle. Gun cycles. Simple. Everyone smiles.

Take care,

Koski

 

[Steve Koski]

Helo,

What you're seeing is normal. I've shot almost 100k rounds of exactly what you're describing using standard RCBS dies in a Dillon 550. Used .40 brass picked up off the ground from every place imaginable. Special equipment isn't necessary, or even desirable.

Once in a great while I'll have a case that has a "lip" on it after being sized, at the base of the sizing ring. Probably 5 to 10 rounds total in my .40 reloading career. This brass is truly worn out and gets recycled. Sending it through a swaging process wouldn't be a good idea, it needs to be retired.

Take care,

Koski