40 s&w vs 45acp

[Antihero]

I don't care what caliber you want to shoot, but your choice of hardcast bullets makes me wonder what you are trying to do. If you really want an wilderness gun, there are better caliber choices than .40SW or .45ACP.

What may be good for critters may not be good for humans. Yes, you want penetration, but then you want to maximize tissue destruction for self defense. This is better with a JHP bullet design.

When I hear "hardcast" bullets for SD, all I can think is minimized tissue destruction, non-expansion AND overpenetration danger to others.

I just want it to be capable of being one as i do live in the woods, it would more than likely never ever be used as such i just want the option.

My real woods gun is a Blawkhawk in 45colt loaded with Buffalo Bore's 325 HC load.

 

[KYShooter]

It is more accurate than I can shoot. Has greater magazine capacity and more stopping power than the .45ACP (I only use the 155 grain jhp loads).

I also have not found a really reliable lightweight .45ACP and the full size 1911 is just too heavy for daily carry as far as I am concerned.

Stopping power is a myth.

You must not be looking very hard, a goverment 1911 isn't the only gun that comes in .45acp.

 

[christcorp]

It is more accurate than I can shoot. Has greater magazine capacity and more stopping power than the .45ACP (I only use the 155 grain jhp loads).

I really don't know the logic to this statement. Just about any gun is more accurate than you can shoot. You're the one doing the aiming. MORE STOPPING POWER than the 45acp??? I Don't Think So. You obviously define "Stopping Power" differently. And as for greater magazine capacity;;;; All I can say is that if you would fix the accuracy issue you mentioned; by learning how to shoot; you probably wouldn't need greater magazine capacity and the 8 rounds in a traditional 45acp (7+1) would be more than enough. You're not a police officer breaking down the door of a drug house or gang house. I'll put my SigSauer P220 45acp (It's not a 1911A1); with it's 8 rounds; up against your Beretta any day.

 

[BlindJustice]

I believe the reasonable comparisons between the
two cartrdiges or other cartridges is to look at the range
of bullet weights available for the caliber of bullets in question.
The heavy versus heavy, and so on, something along the
lines of

.45 ACP -- .40 S&W
-----------------------
230 gr. ---- 180 gr.
200 gr. ----- 165 gr.
185 gr. ---- 155 gr.
154 gr. --- 135 gr.

I got this off the Double Tap site
which lists velocity and kinetic energy
NOt that Kinetic energy has a linear
relationship with the mythical concept of
"Stopping Power"

Double Tap Ammo offeringss
These are ALL Speer Gold Dot JHP
CUrrent offerings
$32.95/50 $29.95/50
.45 ACP ----- .40 S&W --
185 gr 155 gr.
1225 fps 1,275 fps
616 ft lbs 60 ft. lbs
200 gr. 165 gr. .
1125 fps 1,200 fps
562 Ft lbs 528 fl lbs
230 gr. 180 gr.
1,010 fps 1,100 fps
521 ft lbs 484 ft lbs


Now given an adequate combat accuracy
yah really think a bad guy is gonna drop any
faster?

Accuracy, show me a winner at Camp Perry
in centerfire class using a .40 S&W and if that
ever happened it'll be less than 1% compared to
.45 ACP.

1911 too heavy? S&W 1911PD Commander 4.25" Bbl.
with the Scandium frame 28 oz empty. By the time
a higher cap .40 polymer is filled it's pretty near the same
weight on the belt for carry.

I'll leave yah to argue how many angels dance
on the head of a pin.

Randall

 

[jhco]

I shoot forty well, and you get more rounds in the mag. .45 is a great round but I feel like .40 is the next best thing to it with a higher cap in most cases.

 

[jmr40]

The results when bullet hits flesh between the 2 is pretty much the same. I give a slight edge to the 40 because I think it is a slightly better performer. The 40 has better penetration against barriers, heavy clothes etc. The extra rounds may never be needed, but nobody has ever survived a gunfight and wished afterward that they had had fewer rounds available.

That said I actually like the 45, 9mm or 10mm better.

 

[blikseme300]

On the 2 occasions my life depended on a pistol a 9mm served me well. The numbers proving that the 9mm is deficient are just ..... numbers.

Back then I did not have a choice of carry, today I carry a 40 S&W. I believe that it will suffice if the need arises.

Lies, damn lies, statistics <--- Three kinds of lies.

 

[wrs840]

I can't shoot 40s well for some reason as stated in another thread.
Here is the link: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=459696

That wasn't my "take-away" from the preponderance of posts in that thread at all.

I'd guess that at least 50% of the anti-.40 chatter on the internookie is parroting.

IMHO.
Les

 

[Mags]

Huh?

 

[mokin]

I like them both but if I had to choose I'd probably go with the .45 caliber 1911. They seem to have more class. I've shot different handguns of both calibers equally well. That being said I carry either a 9mm or a 10mm.

 

[AirplaneDoc]

45acp

 

[illinois brass man]

I would take the old standby 45 anyday

 

[Dumptruck]

I have had way more positive experiences with .45. My fiancee can shoot .45 with no problem. .40 proves to be too snappy for her.

 

[Greybeard7]

Well, I think the SA XD45 Service is a good pistol. But that's just me.

It is the first high capacity .45ACP that I have held that feels comfortable.

It has a 13 round magazine capacity, while the .40 S&W in the same frame has a 12 round capacity. (At least that is what I just saw on the SA website.)

Although many use +P ammunition, I prefer not to add that extra pressure on the gun over time. I know it's safe, I just feel that there is an additional wear factor that I choose to avoid.

In comparing the muzzle velocity and foot lbs of energy issues, and the debate about penetration, I evaluated the .45 ACP Remington Golden Saber 185 gr load against a similar .40 S&W rounds. The two had very similar stats.

The .45 can comfortably step up to a 230 gr bullet while the .40 can't. In my opinion, this allows more options in a potential self defense carry weapon.

So, I would opt for the SA XD45 Service over the .40 S&W cartridge in comparing these two platforms.

I know many are adamant about the 1911, but to have 13 in the magazine and one in the tube in an XD would be my preference.

FWIW

GB7

 

[wrs840]

Huh?

Not that you don't personally care much for .40 S&W, that was clear. It seemed to me that most who posted in that thread didn't share your original observations regarding 9 vs 40 vs 45. I apologize for being imprecise.

Les

 

[ljnowell]

I give a slight edge to the 40 because I think it is a slightly better performer. The 40 has better penetration against barriers, heavy clothes etc. The extra rounds may never be needed, but nobody has ever survived a gunfight and wished afterward that they had had fewer rounds available.

Can you provde some sort of quantitive evidence to support this? In all honesty, i havent seen .45 be deficient in any of these categories. We arent police or special forces, you shouldnt be shooting through too many barriers.

 

[REAPER4206969]

There is very little difference in the terminal ballistics between the common auto-loading service calibers.

 

[Joe Demko]

I own several examples of both, as well as a couple 9mm's. The difference in performance and accuracy is so slight IRL, that it becomes more of a question of which gun you prefer.

 

[hanno]

I have numerous pistols and one revolver in .45 ACP and none in .40 S&W. I reload .45 AP. Can't think of any reason to add .40, so my vote was easy.

 

[Matrix187]

If you use the right bullets in 9mm, .40, or .45 ACP the difference is so minimal that it doesn't matter. Choose what fits you the best and whatever is reliable/has a good track record.

The only way I can see one justifying the use of a .40 or .357 sig over a 9mm is for better barrier penetration (like car doors). I don't think many of us need to shoot through car doors/windows though like cops might.

 

[REAPER4206969]

Law enforcement gunfights are no different than private citizen gunfights. You may need to shoot into/out of a car someday for the same reasons police do. Get the right mindset, your gunfight is not going to be any easier just because you do not have a badge.

 

[christcorp]

Law enforcement gunfights are no different than private citizen gunfights. You may need to shoot into/out of a car someday for the same reasons police do. Get the right mindset, your gunfight is not going to be any easier just because you do not have a badge.

Have to totally disagree. But it's ok; that's what forums are. A place where opinions differ. I don't believe that private citizens get into "Gun Fights". And especially ones where you're shooting INTO a car. A definitely not for the same reason police do. The truth is, a civilian will pull his/her gun out for one of 3 reasons.

1. Personal domain: An unauthorized intrusion into one's domicile/property. To defend themselves and/or their family.
2. Personal protection: Outside of the home where a robbery/personal attack is/potentially taking place. To defend themselves and/or their family if they are with them.
3. Secondary defense: Usually a situation of a robbery or such and being at the wrong place at the wrong time. E.g. Robbery of a Mini-Mart, and you or another citizen's life is in immediate danger.

The key to these scenarios is that your life has to be in immediate danger. Or at least someone's life other than the attacker has to be in immediate danger. A police office will draw his/her weapons for many other reasons. Reasons that civilians will NOT have to deal with. Am I saying that it's not remotely possible to have to shoot "From" a car? I won't say it's impossible, but I can't think of a time where your life would be in such danger. Possibly a car jacking, but you wouldn't be shooting through the doors or windows, so that's not really the same.

Anyway; we're allowed to disagree. But I really don't consider the use and scenarios that a police officer uses his/her gun to be anywhere similar to a civilian. And that's why I have no problem choosing the gun that "FITS ME" even though it only has 7-8 rounds in the magazine. Anyone who would put such a high priority of magazine capacity; and therefor totally disregard the possibility of using a particular gun or caliber because it "Doesn't Hold Enough Ammunition"; really needs to learn why they are carrying a gun and stop watching Bruce Willis and Mel Gibson movies.

 

[DeepSouth]

Have to totally disagree. But it's ok; that's what forums are. A place where opinions differ. I don't believe that private citizens get into "Gun Fights". And especially ones where you're shooting INTO a car. A definitely not for the same reason police do. The truth is, a civilian will pull his/her gun out for one of 3 reasons.

1. Personal domain: An unauthorized intrusion into one's domicile/property. To defend themselves and/or their family.
2. Personal protection: Outside of the home where a robbery/personal attack is/potentially taking place. To defend themselves and/or their family if they are with them.
3. Secondary defense: Usually a situation of a robbery or such and being at the wrong place at the wrong time. E.g. Robbery of a Mini-Mart, and you or another citizen's life is in immediate danger.

The key to these scenarios is that your life has to be in immediate danger. Or at least someone's life other than the attacker has to be in immediate danger. A police office will draw his/her weapons for many other reasons. Reasons that civilians will NOT have to deal with. Am I saying that it's not remotely possible to have to shoot "From" a car? I won't say it's impossible, but I can't think of a time where your life would be in such danger. Possibly a car jacking, but you wouldn't be shooting through the doors or windows, so that's not really the same.

Anyway; we're allowed to disagree. But I really don't consider the use and scenarios that a police officer uses his/her gun to be anywhere similar to a civilian. And that's why I have no problem choosing the gun that "FITS ME" even though it only has 7-8 rounds in the magazine. Anyone who would put such a high priority of magazine capacity; and therefor totally disregard the possibility of using a particular gun or caliber because it "Doesn't Hold Enough Ammunition"; really needs to learn why they are carrying a gun and stop watching Bruce Willis and Mel Gibson movies.

I agree, and will add that a LEO has the right/obligation to pursue a criminal, while if we pursue, we then become the attacker in the eyes of the law.

I would also add in some states, if you shoot into or out of a vehicle you will instantly be arrested and charged with murder, attempted murder, or what ever the case would be. Now "charged" does not mean "convicted" but it is something to keep in mind.

Sorry for going off topic.


.

 

[REAPER4206969]

I knew it would be you that would argue with me. A few months ago there was a story of a tow truck driver that shot a man through the drivers side window because he was going to run over his partner in front of the car. Then there is this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmgE9csoMek

 

[REAPER4206969]

I would also add in some states, if you shoot into or out of a vehicle you will instantly be arrested and charged with murder, attempted murder, or what ever the case would be. Now "charged" does not mean "convicted" but it is something to keep in mind.

Prove it.