.40 vs 10mm for CCW/Self-Defense (Against Humans)

[LookAtYou]

@LookAtYou It's okay to share the details of "that fateful night".

The woman next door was stupid and would let her dog run around loose (in the middle of a city of over 100,000) and chase bicyclists. One night a really wasted bicyclist took great offense to this, chased her dog to the front door, and tried to force his way in.

I woke up to him screaming and cursing outside. I stepped out with my 357 and saw her trying to hold the door shut and him gradually forcing it open. He was a big muscular young guy with no shirt.

I yelled at him, but he didn't respond. I didn't want to get beaten to death by him or murder him, so I shot the mud at the base of a tree. That got his attention (and everyone else on the block). I loudly and deafly shouted that the next one was for him. He fled the scene.

Wow.

I guess I have a little story of my own. To make it pretty short, I was on my way walking back to my house, when I heard what sounded like a bomb going off, followed by glass shattering. Across the street, a homeless old guy collapsed, and I saw the shooter run away down the block. IDK exactly what he had, but it was a semi-auto. The homeless guy got up minutes later and walked away from the scene. I guess he played dead or faked like he got hit. This happened at a bus stop, the glass came from one of those glass panels at a semi-enclosed bus stop.

This experience made me respect (idk if that's the best word to use in this case) guns even more as far as them being a weapon. I mean ofc I already knew that, but once you are around them and handle guns for so long, you can definitely get desensitized to what it is/can do in a way. Even just the noise they make can be a weapon in itself, lol. It'll perk you up real quick, ESPECIALLY if you're not expecting it. I'd assume as the shooter, at least you have the fact that you know you're about to hear a gunshot to your advantage. When it comes by surprise, it's different.

 

[Show Me]

Back to basics. This has been entertaining like all feedback from strangers should be. So 10 mm is bad azz and will make two holes. 40sw will also. 357 is bad azz and .38 so works fine. So for me which do you not need to bend over to pick up empties. That's where I'm at. Sold my 40s to brother in law but always thought I missed out not having a 10mm. I'm good.

 

[westernrover]

It's not any easier to shoot than a larger cartridge in a heavier gun. The only place it's "easy to shoot" is in a convenient to carry gun. There are pistols that are easier to shoot, there are pistols that come with standard capacity magazines that hold more than most 9mm magazines, and there are pistols more powerful than 9m but all those pistols aren't as convenient to carry. There is only one reason 9 is popular: convenience in carry.

 

[SKILCZ]

Focusing on your first paragraph, you're basically agreeing with what I, and some previous posters, have said. Wanna semi-auto/"high capacity" handgun round for hunting animals? 10mm is pretty viable. Want to defend yourself against other people, .40 (or 9mm or .45 or whatever), due to multiple reasons, is better, for MOST.

As soon as you start decreasing normal 10mm load power levels, and the more you do it, the more one can argue you might as well have just use a .40

I would agree if you always used decreased power loads, but if you want the option of a woods gun in the same firearm, I'd go 10 mm all day long, which is why I did. It's a more capable firearm.

 

[sparkyv]

So 10 mm is bad azz and will make two holes. 40sw will also. [snip] So for me which do you not need to bend over to pick up empties. That's where I'm at. Sold my 40s to brother in law but always thought I missed out not having a 10mm.

You mean like this?

 

[Show Me]

You mean like this?
View attachment 1183021

That's very nice. What bullets are loaded. Looks like the taper is good for a fast reload. Does the ejector have to be slapped or do they clear. Also what does the black marker lines mean.
After switching over to .357 this is what I use for fast reloads and slips in 92's . with practice. Have a good morning.

 

[Buzznrose]

My favorite 10 v 40 video. Not scientifically proven but fun. Teaser question…will the .40 bounce off the clay block??? Tune in to see:

40 S&W vs 10mm vs Clay

Today on Kentucky Ballistics we shoot some clay with a 40 S&W and 10mm! The 40 S&W was born from the 10mm. It is the same diameter bullet, but in a shorter c...

youtu.be

 

[Madcap_Magician]

When I first read the OP, I had to check the date to make sure it was a current thread and not a post from 1990.

I mean, it's good to know the lessons learned repeatedly over the last 30 years haven't changed, I guess.

 

[someguy2800]

Any self respecting 10mm guy will burst into flames before they admit this, but there is overlap between the hottest 40 s&w and weakest 10mm load.

I had a really good laugh a couple weeks ago when I looked at this box of HSM 10mm 200 gr "Bear Load" in a store. The info on the box claimed 1040 fps, which is 60 fps slower than my 200 grain hard cast 40 s&w load from my glock 22.

 

[S.Crockett]

Any self respecting 10mm guy will burst into flames before they admit this, but there is overlap between the hottest 40 s&w and weakest 10mm load.

There’s a velocity/energy “overlap” between the hottest 10mm loads and the weakest .41 Mags loads. So what?

I had a really good laugh a couple weeks ago when I looked at this box of HSM 10mm 200 gr "Bear Load" in a store. The info on the box claimed 1040 fps, which is 60 fps slower than my 200 grain hard cast 40 s&w load from my glock 22.

View attachment 1183139

That’s a 40-level 200grn junk load masquerading as “10mm” ammo on the label. The “Bear” qualifier was only added as a marketing ploy due to the 10mm’s known popularity in venues where bears roam (e.g., Alaska)

Any half-awake 10mm user looking for real 10mm ammo would check the claimed box-flap stats first and see HSM’s money-wasting junk for what it is. Then they’d check out the 10mm line-up @ Grizzly Cartridge for a true factory “bear load” in Best Meter.

10MM 200gr FMJ-FP - Grizzly Cartridge, LLC

Caliber: 10MM Bullet Wt: 200gr Bullet Type: Full Metal Jacket – Flat Point Velocity: 1250 fps Rounds: 20 M.E.: 694 ft. lbs. Made in the USA: Yes Recommended for: Hunting ...

grizzlycartridge.com

 

[someguy2800]

There’s a velocity/energy “overlap” between the hottest 10mm loads and the weakest .41 Mags loads. So what?

That’s a 40-level 200grn junk load masquerading as “10mm” ammo on the label. The “Bear” qualifier was only added as a marketing poly due to the 10mm’s known popularity in venues where bears roam (e.g., Alaska)

Any half-awake 10mm user looking for real 10mm ammo would check the claimed box-flap stats first and see HSM’s money-wasting junk for what it is. Then they’d check out the 10mm line-up @ Grizzly Cartridge for a true factory “bear load” in Best Meter.

10MM 200gr FMJ-FP - Grizzly Cartridge, LLC

Caliber: 10MM Bullet Wt: 200gr Bullet Type: Full Metal Jacket – Flat Point Velocity: 1250 fps Rounds: 20 M.E.: 694 ft. lbs. Made in the USA: Yes Recommended for: Hunting ...

grizzlycartridge.com

That’s exactly my point, there is overlap between the two because both can be bought in watered down or hot versions. So when someone says 40 is much more manageable than 10, and another person says they can’t tell a difference between them, they are both right because it depends on which sample of each you are comparing. You can get the sand out of your shorts now, I’m not attacking your baby.

 

[Alaskamike]

At max SAAMI spec loads, most people don't realize that there's very little difference between the .40 S&W and 10mm. For some reason most people look at the two as if it were the same difference as .38 special vs. .357 magnum.

Max SAAMI average pressure for .40 S&W is 35,000 psi, and for 10mm it's 37,500 psi. Almost the same.

Max SAAMI average pressure for .38 spl is 17,500 psi, but for .357 mag it's 35,000 psi. .357 mag is almost twice the rated pressure of .38 special.

Of course, you will always have ammo manufacturers who download any cartridge, and there will always be those who compare the weakest .40 S&W with the stoutest 10mm and loudly proclaim there is a vast difference in performance between the two.

At the end of the day, if you compare ammo that goes by SAAMI spec max avg. pressure, there's just not that much difference between .40 S&W and 10mm. And yes, I have both, and yes, I handload for both.

 

[someguy2800]

At max SAAMI spec loads, most people don't realize that there's very little difference between the .40 S&W and 10mm. For some reason most people look at the two as if it were the same difference as .38 special vs. .357 magnum.

Max SAAMI average pressure for .40 S&W is 35,000 psi, and for 10mm it's 37,500 psi. Almost the same.

Max SAAMI average pressure for .38 spl is 17,500 psi, but for .357 mag it's 35,000 psi. .357 mag is almost twice the rated pressure of .38 special.

Of course, you will always have ammo manufacturers who download any cartridge, and there will always be those who compare the weakest .40 S&W with the stoutest 10mm and loudly proclaim there is a vast difference in performance between the two.

At the end of the day, if you compare ammo that goes by SAAMI spec max avg. pressure, there's just not that much difference between .40 S&W and 10mm. And yes, I have both, and yes, I handload for both.

This biggest difference is that its relatively easy to buy top fuel 10mm ammo off the shelf, whereas the vast majority of s&w ammo is loaded down to the FBI spec. At full rated pressure giving both every benefit its generally about 100 fps difference.

 

[crestoncowboy]

This biggest difference is that its relatively easy to buy top fuel 10mm ammo off the shelf, whereas the vast majority of s&w ammo is loaded down to the FBI spec. At full rated pressure giving both every benefit its generally about 100 fps difference.

Wasn't always. Around 2000 you could get silvertips and that was about it for 10mm and those weren't "hot". If you wanted real 10mm you had to load it. Double tap would never have been a company if mcnett could have found any decent 10mm.

I chronoed a LOT of 10mm back then. Most 180 gr wouldn't hit 1200 from a 6 inch barrel, much less 200gr. And again the only guns at the time were the Glock and some rare runs of colt/ kimber or the occasionally found tanfoglio

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I've owned and shot 10mm for over 3 decades. Reason? Don't really care for revolvers, and in the late 80s the Colt Delta Elite was pretty much the only game in town which was equal to, or better than .357 Mag. I used it for hiking the Hiawatha National Forest, and generally had it on me in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Now, when hiking the Huron, I use a Glock 29, as the Delta is relegated to safe status. Black bears are the biggest threat I would face, I feel comfortable with the ballistics of the 10, and can shoot it well. If I am facing 2 legged threats only, I generally have .45 ACP as my normal EDC, with 9mm an occasional and fairly close second. Never found a use for the .40, and therefore never owned one.

 

[sparkyv]

Those are XTPs. I was testing three loads; I use a different color for different loads, just in case the rounds get mixed up together. The cases come out easily, no need to slap extractor rod, not even on some really spicy ones. I don't practice fast reloads with my moonclips, but I've seen a video with Jerry Michalek (sp?) that just blows my mind.

Good evening to you, sir.

That's very nice. What bullets are loaded. Looks like the taper is good for a fast reload. Does the ejector have to be slapped or do they clear. Also what does the black marker lines mean.
After switching over to .357 this is what I use for fast reloads and slips in 92's . with practice. Have a good morning.