44 Special vs 44 Special

[USBP379]

Rimrock Bullets makes a 185gr LHP for those who might want to roll their own. This is the bullet referenced above.

https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/-44-185-gr-swc-hp-fb-per-500.html

Pretty spendy but they seem to work okay. I'm still messing around with a load. I have a handful loaded up that should be 950fps or so. I'm hoping they'll expand a little less and penetrate a bit more.

Rimrock says these are what Buffalo Bore uses for his 44SPL LHP. But these aren't gas checked. So maybe they are no longer loaded by BB...

 

[USBP379]

the 180 is a tough bullet to get to expand under 1000 fps but it is very accurate and blows nice .429" right where you want them

According to Hornady the 180 and 200 grain XTP will expand at 750 fps. I wouldn't think there will be much happening at that speed...

The new 10th Edition Hornady manual shows several loads that push the 180 to 1000 and the 200 grain to 900 from a 3 inch bulldog.

 

[RealGun]

Five rounds of CCI Blazer 200gr Gold Dot at 25 yards.

Should we compliment your shooting free standing or the gun, shot from a rest?

 

[the Black Spot]

Be interesting to see a gel test of 200-250 gr wadcutter with a hard base and soft nose.

 

[USBP379]

This morning I shot Underwood's Bulldog load, a handload of Unique with a Hornady 180-grain XTP and another handload with surplus bulk powder and a Rimrock 185gr LHP bullet into the Clear Ballistics gel from 10ft.

The Underwood Gold Dot was fired into bare gel and heavy clothing. Last was through a soft leather jacket purchased for $10 at Goodwill.

Chronograph data shows that the Underwood Bulldog load is cruising along at 975fps which corresponds to their advertised velocity.

Here is a photo looking through the block. Sorry for the cloudiness. The block's getting pretty nasty from repeated used.

12.25" penetration was bare gel.
12.75" penetration was leather jacket.
13.25" penetration was heavy clothing.

Here are the three recovered Dots. Laid out in order as above. Bare on top.

Up next is my handload of Unique with a Hornady 180 XTP. Chrono puts these at 975fps right along with what I'm getting with the Underwood.

One bullet was fired through clothing and the other was fired into bare gel. Both bullets penetrated in excess of 16in and were found a few feet downrange.

I don't know which bullet is which but bare gel and clothing look about the same. The XTP'S are in the middle here.

Lastly, pictured far left is my Rimrock LHP load. I backed the powder off a little and now am getting about 965fps with this bullet. I'm hoping the slightly lower velocities will shoot a bit better. Accuracy isn't bad at 1000+ fps but I'm hoping to tighten it up a bit. Also penetration was only about 10in at the higher velocity.

Anyway I fired two of these through clothing. Both penetrated more than 16in with only one of the bullets being recovered.

Then just for reference is the Rimrock after the higher velocity. Expansion is better but penetration is a bit shallow.

So far I'm really liking what I'm seeing with the Underwood Bulldog. I haven't seen the keyhole issues like with their hotter load. This stuff might be a good choice for self-defense ammo in the GP.

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

Personally, I favor more penetration. I am concerned about what happens when that Gold Dot hits a bone. My guess is it shatters the bullet or it gets embedded. The other rounds penetrating at 16+ look good although more is always better.

 

[USBP379]

Personally, I favor more penetration. I am concerned about what happens when that Gold Dot hits a bone. My guess is it shatters the bullet or it gets embedded. The other rounds penetrating at 16+ look good although more is always better.

I tend to agree that more penetration is better than less.

I need to shoot some factory XTP's and the Critical Defense to see how those do. But Hornady has some CD data on the website that only shows something like 10" of penetration. If factory XTP's penetrate and expand nicely in factory loadings that will also be a solid choice for defensive carry.

 

[HexHead]

I load 200gr Nosler SJHP over 231 for my S&W Model 69.

 

[USBP379]

Here's something quite surprising.

This is a 210gr Speer Gold Dot loaded with Unique fired into gel both with and without a heavy clothing barrier. The chrono says these are running just at or slightly under 1000fps. Note that the bullet fired into bare gel shows just the tiniest amount of flattening while the clothing bullet shows no expansion whatsoever.

The bare gel bullet penetrated about 28" while the clothing bullet penetrated in excess of 32" and the bullet was found behind the blocks.

This is not the surprising thing since I wasn't expecting too much from a heavy jacketed 44 Magnum bullet at these speeds. I'm hoping that maybe something like Blue Dot can get me up into the 1100fps range to give the bullet enough oomph to actually work.

What is surprising to me is how well this 255gr RN LHP from GT Bullets worked. These are loaded to Skeeter spec and are running in the mid 900's. Penetration both with and without clothing is in the 14-15" range and both bullets opened nicely at these speeds. This load warrants more experimentation but certainly might be a good choice as a field/hiking load where lighter skinned four legged critters might be a threat.

 

[Drail]

If you decide to go with Blue Dot keep a close watch on your forcing cone. Blue Dot eats steel like an oxy-acetylene torch and can be temperature sensitive.

 

[USBP379]

Blue Dot can be temperature sensitive.

That's one of my concerns. I don't want to make up some hot load in cold weather that'll be dangerous come summertime.

 

[35 Whelen]

Here's something quite surprising.

This is a 210gr Speer Gold Dot loaded with Unique fired into gel both with and without a heavy clothing barrier. The chrono says these are running just at or slightly under 1000fps. Note that the bullet fired into bare gel shows just the tiniest amount of flattening while the clothing bullet shows no expansion whatsoever.

The bare gel bullet penetrated about 28" while the clothing bullet penetrated in excess of 32" and the bullet was found behind the blocks.

This is not the surprising thing since I wasn't expecting too much from a heavy jacketed 44 Magnum bullet at these speeds. I'm hoping that maybe something like Blue Dot can get me up into the 1100fps range to give the bullet enough oomph to actually work.

What is surprising to me is how well this 255gr RN LHP from GT Bullets worked. These are loaded to Skeeter spec and are running in the mid 900's. Penetration both with and without clothing is in the 14-15" range and both bullets opened nicely at these speeds. This load warrants more experimentation but certainly might be a good choice as a field/hiking load where lighter skinned four legged critters might be a threat.

I wouldn't rely on gelatin as a means to determine whether or not a bullet will expand. If you've ever gutted an animal or seen the body cavity of a mammal, you'll know that they're nowhere near homogeneous as represented by a block of gelatin. I've fired some fairly soft cast HP's into animals and only had one that definitively expanded. The only reason that single example expanded was it travelled uninterrupted through quite a bit of muscle. FWIW, the bullet in question expanded perfectly when fired into a tub of water.

35W

 

[USBP379]

I wouldn't rely on gelatin as a means to determine whether or not a bullet will expand. If you've ever gutted an animal or seen the body cavity of a mammal, you'll know that they're nowhere near homogeneous as represented by a block of gelatin. I've fired some fairly soft cast HP's into animals and only had one that definitively expanded. The only reason that single example expanded was it travelled uninterrupted through quite a bit of muscle. FWIW, the bullet in question expanded perfectly when fired into a tub of water.

35W

While not perfect the gel does give me a repeatable and consistent media to test various handgun bullets without having to wait for hunting season. It also allows me to fire several bullets into each block before remelting. Water jugs are one use only.

My guess is a hollowpoint that doesn't work at all in the gel and/or through clothing probably won't work well in living tissue. But that doesn't account for rib bones, etc.

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

Give the Barnes TAC-XP a try. From what I have seen it is as close to a perfect .44 special you are going to get, short of a hardcast keith boolit. I have moved on from gold dots in all calibers except 9mm.

 

[USBP379]

I have some of the TAC XP's that are specifically for the Special. They look nice with a huge cavity.

I have a handful loaded with Ramshot Silhouette at a published max of 8.0 grains. Muzzle velocity is 775 fps from my 3" Ruger. Accuracy is good but performance in gel is a little weak. Penetration is only about 12" with marginal expansion.

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

Ramp those up to about 950 ft/s and you are in business.

 

[DPris]

Working with Hornady 180 XTP, Berry plated, Barnes TAC-XP, and some LSWC from Oregon Trail.
Hope to shoot 'em all later this week.
So far IMR 4227, 2400, TiteGroup, and 231.
If I can pick up some Unique in time, I'll try that.

Undecided on whether I'll take the time for water-jugging or not, gel's too much hassle.
Denis

 

[35 Whelen]

While not perfect the gel does give me a repeatable and consistent media to test various handgun bullets without having to wait for hunting season. It also allows me to fire several bullets into each block before remelting. Water jugs are one use only.

My guess is a hollowpoint that doesn't work at all in the gel and/or through clothing probably won't work well in living tissue. But that doesn't account for rib bones, etc.

Water tub. Very simple to do. Buy a cheap laundry basket, or two, from the dollar store, line it/them with a cheap poly tarp. Fill with water and fire away. The bullets tear ragged holes in the tarp which slows the water draining. Folding the tarp over the bullet holes slows the draining even more. Not a scientific method, but a neat way to compare the expansion qualities of different bullets and alloys.

35W

 

[USBP379]

Here is some additional gel testing with the Speer 210gr Gold Dot. These are clocking about 1,050fps with a charge of Blue Dot that's a bit over the few published or posted loads I have found for Blue Dot and a 210/215gr bullet.

It looks like these are almost fast enough to be where they need to be to expand properly and reliably. I don't know if I want to go too much farther with Blue Dot and might be better switching to 2400, H110, etc.

Here's one in heavy clothing that penetrated in excess of 32" followed by two in bare gel. Penetration in bare gel is around 20" at this speed.

And then I have another bare gel and heavy clothing shot with the GT Bullets 255gr RN LHP. Again this is a Skeeter charge of Unique with a muzzle velocity of 950fps. I have to say I'm quite surprised with how well these work in the gel.

 

[Merle1]

Here is some additional gel testing with the Speer 210gr Gold Dot. These are clocking about 1,050fps with a charge of Blue Dot that's a bit over the few published or posted loads I have found for Blue Dot and a 210/215gr bullet.

It looks like these are almost fast enough to be where they need to be to expand properly and reliably. I don't know if I want to go too much farther with Blue Dot and might be better switching to 2400, H110, etc.

Here's one in heavy clothing that penetrated in excess of 32" followed by two in bare gel. Penetration in bare gel is around 20" at this speed.

And then I have another bare gel and heavy clothing shot with the GT Bullets 255gr RN LHP. Again this is a Skeeter charge of Unique with a muzzle velocity of 950fps. I have to say I'm quite surprised with how well these work in the gel.

There is definitely something to be said for heavy cast / swaged bullets - especially if they are semi wadcutters. Guess those old timers knew a thing or two that has been forgotten!

 

[Dain Bramage]

And now, here's some empirical evidence from the slow end of the pool.

All shots were fired through 4 ply denim then 14" gelatin backed by a gallon jug of water. The gelatin was not calibrated, so is only good for comparison between shots. Also, I don't have a chronograph, so no velocity data.

All .44 Special fired through a Charter Arms Boomer with 2" ported barrel.

1. Sig V-Crown 200g JHP; penetrated all media; not recovered; left no indication in gel or jug holes that it expanded.
2. Hornady 180g XTP reload; penetrated all media; not recovered; left no indication that it expanded.
3. Penn 185g DBBWC reload; penetrated all media; not recovered; left mildly enlarged gel cavity for first 6", (compared to unexpanded JHP which left very clean penetrations).
4. Hornady 165g Critical Defence FTX; denim + 13" gel penetration; expanded to .62" diameter; left larger 6" deep enlarged gel cavity.

For comparison, this is a 9mm shot through the same media with a 4" barreled Star BM.

1. Federal 124g HST; penetrated denim + 14" gel + found in the water jug; expanded to .60" diameter; left 6.5" deep enlarged gel cavity comparable in diameter to the .44 Spl FTX.

Test was run for my edification in choosing a carry load for the Boomer. I'm going with the FTX, with the WC as a possible secondary choice for winter clothing. YMMV.

 

[USBP379]

Dain,

Do you have any Speer/Blazer Gold Dot? I'd be curious to see if that ammo expands for you out of such a short barrel.

 

[Dain Bramage]

I haven't seen any 200g GD locally. I might order some and do another test in the spring. I was also interested in how those same rounds perform in a longer barrel. Gelatin is a pain to work with and that was a starting effort. Learned a lot.

 

[200Apples]

I haven't seen any 200g GD locally.

Me neither, which is why I've ordered a good stash of 200 gr Hornady XTPs.

 

[USBP379]

Me neither, which is why I've ordered a good stash of 200 gr Hornady XTPs.

I've played around a little bit with 180 and 200 grain xtp. So far I haven't really noticed any big difference between the two bullet weights in terms of expansion or penetration.

The xtp doesn't expand as aggressively as the gold dot. But the penetration is quite a bit better. It would no doubt make a better hunting bullet. If overpenetration is a concern in your home defense / self defense scenario I'd probably use the GD instead.