45-70 & 444 Marlin Guide Gun

[hrgrisso]

Good Question

I'm glad I'm not the only one asking these questions about the 40 Caliber guns from Marlin. A buddy and I are going Elk hunting in Northern Arizona in November. We decided to go lever action open sights and decided on the Marlin Guide gun. Outside of handloading, we can't find anything that makes the 444 and 450 a better choice.

Buffalo Bore makes some killer cartridges for the 45-70, the #'s of energy is ridiculous... The 450 and the 444 don't seem to compete.

Again that's not handloading it.

Also, according to Marlin's website they only make the 45-70 and the .450 in the guide gun, the .444 is in a 22 inch barrel.

We called them about cutting down the .444 and they vehemenetly recommend against that. Due to the micro grooving they say that will really throw of a rifles POI. They recommend a brand new barrel (300 bucks by itself). That may or may not be a company policy very strickly regarded or not...

I'm loving this thread due to my plans as well! Keep the info flowing.

 

[scubie02]

not to sound like a wuss, but how's the recoil on something like the Guide Gun? I say this because I once had a 44 mag Marlin, and for some reason something about the design made the Marlin kick about 3 times as much as the Ruger lever gun I had in 44 mag, which was pretty much of a *****cat. If the 45-70 Marlin is even worse...might be better just sticking with an 06 or something...

 

[rdaines]

I'm waiting for the new production run of the Marlin XLR 444 Marlins. I have nothing against the classic 45-70 and may one day buy one but I like the greater selection of available bullets for handloading in 444 Marlin. At this time I'm not interested in bullets over 250 grains. It would have been cool, however, to shoot 44 Mag and 44 Special cartridges in the 444 Marlin but safety seems to suggest that that would be a bad idea.

 

[AStone]

We called them about cutting down the .444 and they vehemenetly recommend against that.
Due to the micro grooving they say that will really throw of a rifles POI.

Hmm. That's a little confusing, because Marlin's own description of the 444 says, "22" with deep-cut Ballard-type rifling (6 grooves)."
That is, not microgroove but Ballard.

Plus this article describes two 444's cut down to "guide gun" lengths by Jim West ( Wild West Guns) of Alaska and Keith DeHart of Houston.

I'm not reading about any tears in the review.

Nem

 

[kmrcstintn]

some older runs of Marlin 444's have MicroGroove rifling; I handled one earlier today (used) for $299.95 at a shop near my dad (he placed an order and a deposit on a Smith & Wesson 642); just an FYI for y'all

 

[hrgrisso]

Good Info

Nematocyst and kmrcstintn thanks for the info on the micro groove etc. I was going off what the rep at Marlin said.

I was curious about something said earlier, rdaines said that the 44 bullets are easier to find than 45. Asking as NOT a handloader, I wondered if someone could explain this for me...

 

[jmr40]

Have 2 Marlin 45-70's, a Guide Gun and an older straight stocked version with a 22" barrel. I have no experience with the .444. Recoil has never been much of an issue when using standard to moderately hot loads. Some of the hotter loads will get your attention in a hurry. The original black powder loads were considered capable of killing the biggest animals in America 130 years ago, so I have never worried about using the hottest available loads.

Comparing the recoil to my Marlin in .44 mag I would say it is slightly harder with the loads I shoot. Remember, the 45-70's weigh about 1-1/2 pounds more than the .44.

 

[mountainclmbr]

I have the 444 Marlin. It is called the Outfitter while the 45-70 is the Guide Gun. If I had it to do over, I think I would go with the 45-70. The 444 isn't too bad though.

The jacketed bullets made for 44 mag are often used by 444 reloaders. These bullet jackets are much lighter than the .458 offerings that can be used for 45-70. If you are going to use hard cast I don't think there is much difference. Buffalo Bore makes some pretty hot loadings. For deer, elk or black bear the 444 should do fine with heavier bullets. Note that the twist rate will not stabilize 300 gr bullets in some guns. Mine does fine with 300 gr though. For grizzlies I would prefer the 45-70 with a tough bullet like the 350 gr Speer Hot-Core.