45-70: New cartridge

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SlowFuse

SlowFuse

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I just got a Marlin 1895, new to the 45-70 but I've decided to add it to my list of calibers to load. Just curious what some of your favorite loads may be.

Looking for the "level 2" lever action loads and maybe the trapdoor loads for something really soft shooting. I'm either going to get a 300 grain or 405 grain mold and have a few powders listed on the Hodgdon charts. H335, Varget and IMR 4064. Any recommendations?
 
Yup, check any reloading manual, especially Lyman, Hodgdon, and Hornady. They have separate sections for the 1873, lever-actions, and really strong actions like the Ruger-3.
 
It is a great cartridge to reload because you can go from very soft shooting plinkers in 300 grains up to loads that are serious thumpers.

One common favorite is 49 grains of Varget under a 405 grain cast bullet. That gets me 1550 fps and it is as much thump as I can handle. Everything else I load is lighter. About any reloading manual will also have safe lower levels of Varget.

The 405 over 70 grains of black powder is also a lot of fun, makes a mess of your rifle but you can experience what the original cartridge did. I think that one makes around 1300 fps. I made a drop tube out of brass tubes from the hobby shop to load those. You must compress the black powder just a bit and be very careful not to leave any air gap.

I have tried the factory Hornady Leverevolution in 325 grains. I have shot both the factory load and got a box of them to reload. The factory rounds have some pretty big recoil so I am not trying to get mine to their fps.
 
Coltdriver, thanks for the info. I received a box of the 325 hdy lever evolution you're referring to with the rifle, didn't find the recoil offensive. I'm thinking of going with the 405. Seems more flexible load wise, but that's just from a glance at the load data.

Any experience with using 777 substitute on this? If original black gets that projectile to 1300 seems like the 777 would put it around 1450-ish?
 
Thanks RC. Is it a really noticeable difference?

Since this is a straight wall (I understand it has a slight taper) cartridge does it require a lot of trimming?
 
IMR 4198 is what I'm using now with a 405grn Remington sp. 3031 along with RL7 are popular also. 45-70 is a great round to reload enjoy the variety it offers.
 
If you're shooting jacketed bullets 3031 is pretty hard to beat. Cast bullets 5744 is particularly good. Really no point in messing with the substitute powders, when there is smokeless available. If you're thinking about black then you'll want to get some Olde Eynsford 2f.
Keep in mind while you can jazz the velocity up a bit in that Marlin, the 405 gr bullet at 1300+ is the round that kept the 45-70 going from 1873 until now. Those "trapdoor" level loads will be friendlier on you and your rifle than the +p stuff.
 
SlowFuse said:
I just got a Marlin 1895, new to the 45-70 but I've decided to add it to my list of calibers to load. Just curious what some of your favorite loads may be.

Looking for the "level 2" lever action loads and maybe the trapdoor loads for something really soft shooting. I'm either going to get a 300 grain or 405 grain mold and have a few powders listed on the Hodgdon charts. H335, Varget and IMR 4064. Any recommendations?
Click to expand...
In reality the Trapdoor loads are full power loads. When stronger actions like the Levergun came along they increased the power of the 45-70 loads BUT, the extra velocity isn't necessary. There isn't much on the face of the Earth that can't be stopped with a 405gr LFN bullet @1400 fps.

405gr Lead Flat Nose Bullets:
32.0gr H4198
34.0gr H4198
27.5gr AA5744
29.0gr AA5744
47.0gr IMR3031

300gr Hornady JSP Bullet:
48.0gr H4198
38.8gr AA5744
56.0gr IMR3031

Warning, mistakes can and will happen when writing numbers. Always check the data you get on the NET!
 
I never tried 777. If the volume is identical and there is no air gap it would probably work fine.

I have used 777 in other BP rifles and I always hated the way it gunked things up. It is sugar based and it behaved like burnt sugar with me so I quit using it.

There are so many smokeless alternatives that the BP is just a good nostalgia thing. I wanted to feel how one shot just to experience the original cartridge.

Lots of good suggestions by other posters here!

My only problem with hunting with it is getting close enough. But the Leverevolution rounds do let you get out to 200 yards with a reasonably flat shooting bullet.
 
SlowFuse: My Son and I both shoot old JM Model Marlin 1985CW`s with the 26 inch barrels in 45-70. We have tried some +P Ammo thru them, because we, thought we would have to have that extra power to hunt Pigs and Deer with. (((WRONG))). The load we use now and have for the last 10 or 12 years, and the only one I load now is 35grs of IMR-3031 under a 405gr Hardcast LRNFP bullet. I have been told that is load will give us 1200 to 1300 FPS in our rifles, we don`t have a cronhy. Have yet to shoot any thing like Deer or Pigs that we did not get full pentration either Side to Side or End to End. We find this to be very accurate and comfortable to shoot, both at the Cowboy Actions shoots we go to, and any hunting we get to do. This load knock`s the 200yd Steel Ram down with out any problem at all, and has been just great for any thing we have hunted with it out to that range. We like the 405 gr Hardcast LRNFP bullets better than anything else we have tried. I would sure recmond the 405 gr bullet for just about anything you could possibley need it for. I just turn 71 and recoil is begening to bother me but I can shoot this load with out any problems, even at a multiable shoot Cowboy Match`s. A Marlin Model 1895 in 45-70 is just a Class Act as far as I am concerened.
ken
 
I may have to get some 3031 because of all of the suggestions. But, i'm going to give a go with the 3 suitable powders I have on hand for now. Most likely the IMR 4064. I have 3 lbs of it and don't use it for any other caliber I load at the moment.

I've ordered Missouri 400 Grain projectiles to hold me over until I can get some cast going. Looking forward to jumping into this one.
 
Jumping back into this... I finally got 50 rounds loaded for my first tests with the IMR4064. Using the MBC 405 RNFP (I went with coated) I loaded 25 at the starting load for trapdoor levels, 46.0 grains of 4064. I loaded the other 25 at 53.0 grains of 4064.

I did a little extrapolation. The Hodgdon data did not have a load for lead, only a 400 grain JFP. So i dropped down a half grain from levergun level start data. Really thinking anywhere between the 46 and 57 range should be fine. Will report back after hopefully running through these this weekend.
 
Mehavey, im using lead that was purchased from Missouri Bullet Co. The coating I was referring to is their hi-tech brand powder coat.

I plan to add a 45-70 mold to what I already have but free time right now is rare for me.
 
OP, I've started casting and loading for a Marlin GBL.

I bought a 405 gr, .460" Plain Base mold from NOE. The bullets have lube grooves, but I tumble lubed them. My bullets were dropping at about 384 grains. I shot them "As Cast". The alloy I used was mostly lead from MBC.

I loaded up some test loads with Varget. Half grain increments starting at 49.5 up to 51.5

New Star Line Brass with a Tula LRP.

I seated the bullet to the cannelure. Crimped with a Lee FCD.

Seated at a bench from 50 yards, 51 gr of Varget gave me the best group size. About 3-1/2". Recoil is pretty stout.

Good Luck
 
I've got Varget. If I don't find a load I like with the IMR I may try that next. I really just want to use up this 4064, I have more of it available and currently have no other loads I use it for. I've heard it's a little on the slow side.

How heavy of a crimp do you use? I plan on taking my caliper to measure the last round in the tube to see if I'm getting changes in oal after firing a few. And do these require a lot of trimming?? I'm using new starline.
 
SlowFuse said:
Jumping back into this... I finally got 50 rounds loaded for my first tests with the IMR4064. Using the MBC 405 RNFP (I went with coated) I loaded 25 at the starting load for trapdoor levels, 46.0 grains of 4064. I loaded the other 25 at 53.0 grains of 4064.

I did a little extrapolation. The Hodgdon data did not have a load for lead, only a 400 grain JFP. So i dropped down a half grain from levergun level start data. Really thinking anywhere between the 46 and 57 range should be fine. Will report back after hopefully running through these this weekend.
Click to expand...
Hodgdon has IMR4064 load data for a 405gr cast bullet. The charge range is lower than your "guess" so if you really want to keep to Trapdoor pressures bring it down a bit. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
Hodgdon is listing a charge range for that combination as 46.0gr to 49.5gr. Why would you jump 7 full grains of powder with nothing in between when working up a new load? IMO there is no reason to use anything but lower pressures in the 45-70 even though American shooters are obsessed with excessive velocity with no good reason.
 
SlowFuse said:
I've got Varget. If I don't find a load I like with the IMR I may try that next. I really just want to use up this 4064, I have more of it available and currently have no other loads I use it for. I've heard it's a little on the slow side.

How heavy of a crimp do you use? I plan on taking my caliper to measure the last round in the tube to see if I'm getting changes in oal after firing a few. And do these require a lot of trimming?? I'm using new starline.
Click to expand...
I resized and trimmed the new Star Line to 2.095".

I used the Lyman 49, Lyman cast Handbook and a couple other manuals to extrapolate load data for my cast bullet.

For the crimp, I found that the Lee FCD is pretty aggressive. I applied the crimp using less than half a turn,,,if that helps any.


FWIW, I love 4064 for 308/x51. I'm interested in your results with it for 45-70 :)
 
Archangelcd, I wanted a "lever level" load. That's what I was referring to when I said hodgdon didn't offer a lead load for the 400/405. My goal was to get minimum loads for both "levels" of the trapdoor and lever loads. If you go back to your hodgdon manual you should see what I'm taking about.

Thanks hungry1, I have the 3 die set so I did the crimp and seat in one step. I'd say mine is fairly light. We'll see.
 
I've used 3031,RL7,5744 and 4227 in my Browning and Shiloh Sharps with good results. Bullet weights from 300 to 525 grains and a "gallery" load of 2 250 grain wad cutters that I cast over a charge of 2400. Gallery load puts both bullets to dead center out to 75 yards.
 
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