.45 ACP: What's a W231 charge that mimics 5 grains bullseye?

[1KPerDay]

I have bullseye but not as much as 231. I have a box of Xtreme 230 RN plated and want to build some "standard" range loads. Accuracy and reliability are priorities. I understand 5 grains BE is a long-established fave... from what I read in my manuals about 5.5 grains W231 should be similar velocity. Any thoughts? This is midrange in some manuals and at or over max in some manuals.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I use nothing but 5.5gr W231 in my 230gr 45 Auto ammo. I'm not sure if it will mimic your Bullseye load but it works great and is very accurate for me.

 

[1KPerDay]

Good to hear. Thanks.

 

[Walkalong]

Somewhere between 5.0 and 5.5 grs of W-231 should do it. A lot of folks shoot 5.0 (Plinker/practice) or 5.5 (Full power), but also some reports of 5.2 & 5.3.

New W-231 data is more conservative than the old data.

 

[1KPerDay]

I'll see what my PAD disc throws and go with that.

 

[bobinoregon]

5.5 gr w-231 is my standard with a 230 gr Xtreme also

 

[1KPerDay]

5.5 gr w-231 is my standard with a 230 gr Xtreme also

Awesome. Thanks

 

[Dudedog]

Don't know about = Bullseye
But 4.7 HP38/W231 makes a fairly soft load with 230s and shoots well for me,
5gr maybe shoots a hair better but is not as soft.

From Hodgdon
230 GR. HDY FMJ FP Winchester 231 .451" 1.200" 4.2 751 13,800 CUP 5.3 832 16,800 CUP
230 GR. LRN Winchester 231 .452" 1.200" 4.3 699 12,200 CUP 5.3 834 16,900 CUP
almost exactly the same for lead and jacketed charge wise.

MIxed range brass,
charges as thrown after setting measure
WIN LP
5" 1911
String: 2
Date: 9/11/2016
Time: 9:25:57 AM
Grains: 230
Hi Vel: 762
Low Vel: 714
Ave Vel: 734
Ext Spread: 48
Std Dev: 16
45 RMR 230 4.7 HP38 1.21 OAL (slightly larger dia bullet and shorter OAL than the Xtreme bullet below)
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
762 175.26 296.51
735 169.05 275.87
725 166.75 268.414
748 172.04 285.715
739 169.97 278.881
721 165.83 265.461
714 164.22 260.331

String: 4
Date: 5/14/2017
Time: 2:30:59 PM
Grains: 230
Hi Vel: 719
Low Vel: 684
Ave Vel: 699
Ext Spread: 35
Std Dev: 13
Xtreme 230 RN 4.7 HP38 1.233 OAL
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
704 161.92 253.09
719 165.37 263.99
684 157.32 238.914
696 160.08 247.371
693 159.39 245.243

only Bullseye chrono I have for .45
String: 4
Date: 5/14/2017
Time: 1:54:27 PM
Grains: 230
Hi Vel: 723
Low Vel: 696
Ave Vel: 708
Ext Spread: 27
Std Dev: 10
RMR 230 4.2 Bullseye 1.21 OAl
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
723 166.29 266.935
713 163.99 259.602
696 160.08 247.371
703 161.69 252.371
708 162.84 255.974

 

[IMtheNRA]

If you let us know your Bullseye velocity and what type of gun you used, I can compare it to the data I recorded for my 6 grain W-231 load and you can decide what's close to the Bullseye load. My 6 grain load is over max in some manuals, but I originally found it published in a Speer manual. I have velocity data from a 4 inch model 625 and a Glock 21.

 

[Dudedog]

HP38 is sort of my go to powder for .45 practice loads, AA#2 works well for me also.
Still need to try my Sport Pistol and W244 loads.


HP38/W231 calcs rounded a bit using VMD .0931
I recall my lot of HP38 was close to the listed VMD of .0931
disk cc/VMD=gr
so
.40 disk ~4.3gr
.43 disk ~4.65gr (my 4.7 load)
.46 disk ~5.0gr (my 5gr load)
.49 disk ~5.3gr

 

[Walkalong]

If you let us know your Bullseye velocity and what type of gun you used, I can compare it to the data I recorded for my 6 grain W-231 load and you can decide what's close to the Bullseye load. My 6 grain load is over max in some manuals, but I originally found it published in a Speer manual. I have velocity data from a 4 inch model 625 and a Glock 21.

That's hot. I worked up to 6.1 once following a Midway Load Map. Way to hot with far too much recoil. Didn't own a chrono back then. I would not go over 5.5 myself, especially considering the new W-231 data out there.

but I originally found it published in a Speer manual

The famous Speer manual with the nuclear loads in it?

 

[Slamfire]

I have bullseye but not as much as 231. I have a box of Xtreme 230 RN plated and want to build some "standard" range loads. Accuracy and reliability are priorities. I understand 5 grains BE is a long-established fave... from what I read in my manuals about 5.5 grains W231 should be similar velocity. Any thoughts? This is midrange in some manuals and at or over max in some manuals.

Just use 5.5 grs W231 with a 230 plated bullet. I have only shot 200 gr plated in the 45ACP, and it took more powder to push the things to the same velocity of similiar weight and configured lead bullets. So, I think using FMJ data for plated is fine. As you can see from my data, a 230 LRN takes about a half grain less powder to reach the same velocity as a 230 FMJ. I shot kegs of W231 at 5.5 grains W231 with a 230 FMJ. It pushed a 230 FMJ just at 800 fps in a number of full sized 1911's. Make sure you are using the standard recoil spring (about 16 lbs), nothing less, and your 45 ACP should have no problems.

Kimber Custom Classic

230 LRN Valiant 5.0 grs W231 lot BN8B (80's) Mixed brass WLP (brass)
12-Dec-11 T = 53 °F

Ave Vel = 770.8
Std Dev = 17.05
ES = 68.84
High = = 810.2
Low = 741.4
N = 32


230 LFN Bull-X 5.5 grs W231 Mixed brass CCI300 primers
30-Dec-04 T = 60 °F

Ave Vel = 797.8
Std Dev = 32.2
ES = 154.2
High = 858.2
Low = 703.9
N = 32


230 LRN Valiant 5.5 grs W231 Mixed brass WLP OAL 1.245" taper crimp 0.469"
27-Feb-10 T = 48 °F

Ave Vel = 832.4
Std Dev = 25.07
ES = 106.1
High = = 859.6
Low = 753.4
N = 16


230 FMJ RN 5.0 grs 231 R-P cases WLP
10-Jul-05 T = 84 °F accurate

Ave Vel = 755.7
Std Dev = 17.23
ES = 64.39
High = 784.8
Low = 720.4
N = 22

230 FMJ (GI) 5.5 grs W231 Mixed Brass WLP
4-Sep-05 T = 92 °F OAL 1.265" taper crimp .469"

Ave Vel = 782.5
Std Dev = 22.64
ES = 87.93
High = 822.9
Low = 735
N = 28

230 FMJ (GI) 5.5 grs W231 Mixed Brass WLP
8-Jan-06 T = 61 °F OAL 1.265" taper crimp .469"

Ave Vel = 802.9
Std Dev = 17.8
ES = 53.67
High = 831.1
Low = 777.5
N = 9


230 FMJ (GI) 5.5 grs W231 Mixed Brass WLP
18-Mar-07 T = 62 °F OAL 1.265" taper crimp .469"

Ave Vel = 780.5
Std Dev = 14.17
Es = 51.66
High = 798.7
Low = 747
N = 23
point aim accurate




230 gr LRN Valiant 4.5 grs Bullseye lot 827 (60's/70's powder) Mixed Brass WLP (brass)
16-May-09 high 83 °F OAL 1.250" taper crimp .469"

Ave Vel = 822.9
Std Dev = 14.14
ES = 55.24
High = 853.7
Low = 798.4
N = 26

230 gr FMJ (R-P) 5.0 grs Bullseye 99' & 2005 mixed lot Mixed Brass WLP (brass)
12-Dec-11 T= 53 °F OAL 1.265" taper crimp .469"

Ave Vel = 793.5
Std Dev = 18.92
ES = 61.99
High = 817.4
Low = 755.4
N = 16

[/code]

 

[1KPerDay]

HP38 is sort of my go to powder for .45 practice loads, AA#2 works well for me also.
Still need to try my Sport Pistol and W244 loads.


HP38/W231 calcs rounded a bit using VMD .0931
I recall my lot of HP38 was close to the listed VMD of .o931
disk cc/VMD=gr
so
.40 disk ~4.3gr
.43 disk ~4.65gr (my 4.7 load)
.46 disk ~5.0gr (my 5gr load)
.49 disk ~5.3gr

Yep, my .49 throws 5.2 in my house.

 

[BigBore45]

5.3gr of hp38 with a 230gr. TC lee bullet. Alox or hitek coated. Ran that for a couple years for idpa. Good Mid load. I switched to my proprietary powders now that I have an 07ffl and load commercially. I would go back to hp38/231 or titegroup if I had too.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Somewhere between 5.0 and 5.5 grs of W-231 should do it. A lot of folks shoot 5.0 (Plinker/practice) or 5.5 (Full power), but also some reports of 5.2 & 5.3.

New W-231 data is more conservative than the old data.

I have a feeling that's because they are seating the bullets deep into the case resulting in an OAL of only 1.200"

 

[Dudedog]

I went 1.21 on the RMR 230s. They were the old ones not the current ones.
Good bullets, but they had a blunt round nose and needed to be seated fairly deep.

 

[vaalpens]

I have not loaded the 230gr bullet with W231/HP38 yet, but it is on my todo list. I will probably have my HP38 load tested by next weekend. HP38/W231 is very similar to Sport Pistol, but obviously not exactly the same. Currently I am planning to test up to 5.3gr or 5.4gr with HP38, but I have not made the final decision yet. Here are some of my comparison data using a 200gr plated bullet and a 230gr FMJ bullet. Hopefully it will give you some idea.

 

[RealGun]

I have bullseye but not as much as 231. I have a box of Xtreme 230 RN plated and want to build some "standard" range loads. Accuracy and reliability are priorities. I understand 5 grains BE is a long-established fave... from what I read in my manuals about 5.5 grains W231 should be similar velocity. Any thoughts? This is midrange in some manuals and at or over max in some manuals.

I note that you may be equating plated with FMJ. I would guess they would work okay, but my Bullseye load for lead is 4.6, with the conventional wisdom often mentioned of using lead data for plated.

 

[1KPerDay]

Currently about 300 rounds loaded at 5.1-5.2, OAL 1.260-1.265". These plunk and feed in my 1911s, Glocks, and SIG.

ASIDE: went back to LCT and it's amazing how easily and smoothly the rounds went together and the primers fell into place. I've been loading mostly on the Pro1K lately.

 

[Walkalong]

I would guess they would work okay, but my Bullseye load for lead is 4.6, with the conventional wisdom often mentioned of using lead data for plated.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/380-plated-data.818632/#post-10500159

 

[1KPerDay]

They shoot well; if anything they feel a little soft. Which for my purposes is fine.

 

[Walkalong]

Berrys 230 Gr Plated RN


I have shot them with Universal, AA #5, Clays, N310, AA #2, maybe others, but I just sped read a few loads in .45 ACP and saw those. I think I have a few left. I have tried quite a number of bullets in .45 ACP, lead, plated, jacketed, coated, 185 Gr to 250 Gr.