45 caliber velocity and effectiveness...

[marshall3]

Question: At what speed does a 230 grain 45 caliber FMJ bullet become effective against an attacker? From what I've read, most 230 grain FMJ 45 bullets reach speeds of between 700 and 900 feet per second, depending on the length of the barrel. What if the bullet would be traveling at a mere 500 fps? At that speed would it still pierce human flesh and penetrate a significant depth? At only 400 fps? Of course, the drop would be greater at a distance, but up close the drop should not be a factor, and that's not really what I want to know.

 

[Double Maduro]

I think there are too many variables to give you the answer you seek.

Is it winter or summer?

How is the target dressed, 1 layer, 2, 3?

Will you hit bone? Kind of hard not to hit bone if you are aiming COM.

How thick is the persons skin? From some of the posts here some of us have thinner skin than others, .

What do you consider, "penetrate to a considerable depth"?

Way to many variables.

Why, are you planning to work up some uber tactical, stealth loads for the .45? If so, I want some,

DM

 

[Boats]

100 fps =68.18 mph
200 fps =136.36 mph
300 fps =204.54 mph
400 fps =272.72 mph
500 fps =340.90 mph
600 fps =409.08 mph
700 fps =477.26 mph
800 fps =545.44 mph
900 fps =613.62 mph
1000 fps =681.80 mph
1100 fps =749.98 mph
1200 fps =818.16 mph
1300 fps =886.34 mph
1400 fps =954.52 mph
1500 fps =1022.70 mph
1600 fps =1090.88 mph

Which is part of the reason I am partial to warmly loaded .357 Magnums myself. Even at 100 fps, a projectile is going to smart like heck or be very dangerous depending on its sectional density. Anything moving 200 mph or greater is potentially lethal if it has sufficient mass and a .45ACP slug at 300fps could probably could kill someone were the target hit in a critically NAKED spot.

 

[Imaginos]

Momentum

I'd suggest you do the math using the Taylor Knockout formula.

TKO = Caliber x Bullet Weight x Velocity / 7000

In this game a higher TKO is better.

By way of comparison:

A 230gr .45ACP at 846 fps gives a TKO of 12.51.

A 125 gr .357 bullet at 1225 fps gives a TKO of 7.81

A 240 gr .44 Mag at 1200 fps gives a TKO of 17.65

The TKO favors big heavy bullets.
You might also look into the "Hatcher Formula" proposed by Gen. Julian Hatcher.

 

[Velocity229]

I think this topic is unrealistic, although it gets me thinking.

How does the 45ACP 2.5 inch snubby revolver perform in fps? (325PD)

 

[Boats]

That's one wimpy .357 Magnum load in that example.

I would think a S&W 325PD is capable of lethality, maybe even through looks alone. The question is will any JHPs fired from it actually have enough ooomph to expand?

 

[pioneer]

if at all possible,stick to hollow point only.that is if its reliable in your pistol.

 

[1911Tuner]

What Speed?

Well, I dunno about the pure physics involved...but I wouldn't wanna take one movin' 300 fps...nekkid or not!

 

[marshall3]

Boats calculations are interesting

Boats wrote:
100 fps =68.18 mph
200 fps =136.36 mph
300 fps =204.54 mph
400 fps =272.72 mph
500 fps =340.90 mph
600 fps =409.08 mph
700 fps =477.26 mph
800 fps =545.44 mph
900 fps =613.62 mph
1000 fps =681.80 mph
1100 fps =749.98 mph
1200 fps =818.16 mph
1300 fps =886.34 mph
1400 fps =954.52 mph
1500 fps =1022.70 mph
1600 fps =1090.88 mph

That reminds me about being hit with a hard ball (baseball). If a hard ball going 100 mph hits a guy in the head, it will HURT a lot. Could even kill. But it won't penetrate because it is so wide. I suppose a FMJ 230 grain slug might begin to penetrate at even 100 mph, certainly it would penetrate to some extent at 200 mph.

Related question: Is there such a thing as a "launcher" that could be used to "shoot" 230 grain slugs at variable speeds to test this out? (Not on a human of course! Maybe into a side of beef?)

The reason I'm wondering is that I just bought a Taurus PT145 which has a very short barrel, just a bit over 3 inches long, and I'm guessing that the 230 grain ammo I'm shooting is traveling quite a bit slower than it says on the box or on the websites of the ammo manufacturers. I'm also guessing whatever ammo I shoot is going to make it up to 700 fps without much trouble, even out of the short barrel.

Nope, no "uber tactical loads," but if I do invent such a cartridge, I will market it as the: "SDLV Penetrator!"
Has a ring to it! The "Super Duper Low Velocity Penetrator!" Might sell a bunch!

 

[Dave P]

Marshall, sounds like you need to buy a couple of boxes of different SD ammo, and try them out on soggy phone books.

 

[Canuck-IL]

A thread on the 1911 forum has Defender vs Government velocities for several commercial loadings.
http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93705
/Bryan

 

[marshall3]

Great link

Thanks for the great link.

 

[Elmer]

A lot of people were killed with the old British Bulldog revolvers. I think the velocities were pretty low on them.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

While it is possible to overmatch a bullet's capabilities with velocity (for example, firing a bullet designed for a .30-30 in a .300 WM), that's not likely to happen in a .45 ACP. So MORE velocity (within the capabilities of the cartridge) is not likely to be a disadvantage.

As has been pointed out, the old short-barreled British revolvers loaded with .455 ammo (which runs about 600 fps from a full-lenght barrel) were fairly good stoppers. That would indicate that velocity alone is not a critical component in cartridges like this -- they'll work at both the upper and lower end of their spectrum of performance.