454 Casull, 45 Colt....45ACP?

[simpleguy]

I have learned a lot from THR over the past couple of years. Here's a question for you wheel gun guru's.........

I understand that 454 Casull Revolvers will accept the 45 Colt round.....is it possible to have a gunsmith machine the cylinder to accept .45ACP and moon clips?

Thanks in advance,
Scotty

 

[Sato Ord]

I could be wrong, I'm certainly no guru, but the last time I looked the .45acp has a base that doesn't protrude so it doesn't seat and chamber the same as a .45LC. I would think that if you are looking for lower power and cheaper ammo you should look into reloading your own, or have someone else reload light loads for you. Other than that I can't see any advantage to being able to chamber .45acp in a 454 revolver.

 

[rcmodel]

Possible? Yes.
Advisable? No!

The .454 runs 65,000 PSI pressure. More then most bolt-action Magnum rifles.

Anything you do to the cylinder to compromise full case head support would run a very high risk of blowing your hand off if a case let go.

It would be possible to have an extra cylinder fitted in .45 ACP in a Single-Action gun.

But it would get very expensive to do it with a Double Action gun.

rcmodel

 

[simpleguy]

RC Model - I was thinking the same thing pressure-wise. You were, thanks for confirming my fears.

 

[rogertc1]

Yes it is done and can be done using moon clips and the Ruger Alaskan. Do a google search as there is a company one can send the cylinder to to get it done.

Not sure if is the right page but keep looking

http://www.wildwestguns.com/Pistolsmithing/pistolsmithing.html

 

[edrice]

I had my S&W 625 done here -

http://www.pinnacle-guns.com/revolver.asp

...and he did an excellent job.

He lists the .454/.45LC/45ACP - runs about $85. All have to do is ship him the cylinder and $7 more to return it.

Ed

 

[Chuck Perry]

One thing to consider is that the accuracy of the 45ACP thru the converted 454 may be lacking, due to the long jump the bullet will have to make from the cylinder to the barrel. I'm sure it will be serviceable, but I wouldn't be expecting 1" groups at 25 yards from the 45ACP. 454 performance should be unaffected by such a conversion.

 

[edrice]

One thing to consider is that the accuracy of the 45ACP thru the converted 454 may be lacking, due to the long jump the bullet will have to make from the cylinder to the barrel. I'm sure it will be serviceable, but I wouldn't be expecting 1" groups at 25 yards from the 45ACP. 454 performance should be unaffected by such a conversion.

That's probably very correct. But when I had my 625 cylinder converted, it was not with an eye toward accuracy. It was done for the sake of versatility. All I can tell you for sure is that at 7 yards, the shots mostly seem to go to the same 2-inch black dot on a target and that's all I really cared about for the purpose I had in mind. What it's capable of at 25 yards with .45 acp, I'll likely never know.

Ed

 

[mewachee]

What is the downside of moonclips?

I am ignorant on this one. I understand the problems with the 45 acp, but what other problems occur.

 

[Redhawk1]

Yes it can be done, I have a 454 Casull Super Redhawk that started life as a 7 .5 inch gun, now that Jack Huntington done his magic, it sports a 2.5 inch barrel, the hammer is bobbed and a lot of other cool stuff done to it. But one other thing he did was modify the cylinder to accept moon clips. So now the gun will accept 454 Casull, 45 Colts, 45 Win Mag's with moon clips as well as 45 ACP with moon clips.

The machine work was done on the extractor and the area where the extractor sits, which does not effect the integrity of the cylinder.

As for accuracy, the 454 Casull, 45 Colts and 45 Win Mag's are extremely accurate. The 45 ACP is accurate out to about 15 yards, after that the accuracy is non existent. But the cool thing is, I can still use the 45 Win Mags with moon clips and reloading is very fast. I don't shoot many 45 ACP's, the other rounds are much more fun.

This modification was done about 2 years before the first Ruger Alaskan hit the market. I think when Ruger saw pictures of the Jack Huntington, JHR Super Streethawk as he name it, they copied it except for the cylinder modification and bobbed hammer.


mewachee, there is no down side. Also people forget the 45 Win Mag can be used with the moon clips in the 454 Casull also, I do it all the time.

 

[edrice]

The only downside to full-moon clips that I can see is removing the spent shells from them. Not always a bad thing but sometimes you might need a little tool to remove them efficiently.

I do have some nylon composite moonclips that are great for practice and those are easy to empty because they are flexible. Very handy.

Before I actually used moonclips I used to think what a hassle they must be, but after this conversion, I started to realize how awkward speed-loaders are and didn't want to use them anymore - an epiphany. The loaded moonclips just slip in so easily and spent cases all eject at once. I'm considering having this done to my other revolvers.

Ed

 

[Redhawk1]

That's why they make a de-mooner

 

[20nickels]

Redhawk1, You may have answered a question for me that I've been after for some time now. Can you use 45 Win mag loaded to medium high pressures without the moonclips setting back and binding up the cylinder? BTW what clips are you using?

 

[Redhawk1]

20nickels
I am using Stainless steel moon clips, the are harder than most moon clips and don't bent as easy. But I also used the S&W moon clips without them getting all bent up and binding up the cylinder with the 45 Win Mag.

The 45 Win Mags I use, are loaded to the higher end of the load data. The case's in the moon clip fall right out of the cylinder. If the modification is done right the moon clips will never bend.

 

[simpleguy]

You guys are awesome!

When I wrote this I did it assuming it could not and has not been done. I also we asking because the older I get the more I like a versatile firearm. Ammo can get scarce whether due to location, price or politics.

I was looking to get something along the lines of a .454, .45colt, .45ACP Double action wheel gun and a .454, .45colt lever gun.

 

[hghunter]

.45 auto rim

S & W made revolvers for the .45 auto rim cartridge, the mod. 1955 Target is one. You could use .45 ACP rounds in it with half moon clips. I'm not sure why manufacturers quit making that cartridge. I looked for some the other day and they said that it hadn't been made in years.

Too much handloading I guess. I gotta come up for air once in a while.

 

[tipoc]

Simple Guy,
You haven't said what gun you have in 454 Casull.

tipoc

 

[simpleguy]

Sorry for the late reply. I was considering a Ruger Alaskan.

 

[Markbo]

Just tell Ruger you need a .45 ACP cylinder for your gun and they will sell you one. All problems solved. Hell they have made .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertibles for years.... this isn't a new idea. I don't know if they will do it for a SRH, but they do it for BH's all the time. If they won't, contact me and I will recommend a gunsmith who will make you one.

Forget moon clips and all that pain the ars stuff... the ACP fit right in their own cylinder and rest on their case mouth, just like in a 1911 chamber. Accuracy can be surprisingly good too!

 

[Redhawk1]

Markbo, but will he still be able to shoot 454 Casull, 45 Colt....45ACP and 45 Win Mags??? I don't think so.

 

[Eightball]

It would be possible to have an extra cylinder fitted in .45 ACP in a Single-Action gun.

Not to completely sidetrack the thread....but I saw pics of a Single action .45ACP revolver, and it didn't exactly look like he had a moon-clippish device....so how would a .45ACP work in a single-action? I think I missed something.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Possible? Yes.
Advisable? No!

The .454 runs 65,000 PSI pressure. More then most bolt-action Magnum rifles.

Anything you do to the cylinder to compromise full case head support would run a very high risk of blowing your hand off if a case let go.

It would be possible to have an extra cylinder fitted in .45 ACP in a Single-Action gun.

But it would get very expensive to do it with a Double Action gun.

Exactly. Plus, remember that even if possible, an equally important concern (extremely important) is this: .454 casull, being very high pressure, has little to no margin for error. If you shoot EITHER .45 colt or .45 acp, or anything with a shortened case, with more than just a few rounds, you will build up a residue ring in the front of the chambers. Then, when you go back to shooting full house .454s, this residue ring can pinch or crimp the case at the front of the chamber, which will temporarily (for a split second), hold the bullet in the case longer than it should (even though measured in milliseconds, on a relative scale, this holds the bullet in MUCH longer than it should). Until the bullet releases and begins its trip into the forcing cone, the already high pressures could spike dramatically, causing catastrophic failure. I wouldn't say DON'T use .45 colts - I'd say use them with extreme caution, thoroughly cleaning each and every cylinder after a .45 colt session, to preven the ring from building up. My opinion is that this is a much greater concern than the general revolver-shooting public realizes. They think that since .38 special to .357 mag is ok, that this is ok, too. Apples and oranges. Yes the .357 is high pressure, but not nearly as high as .454 casull (35K cup vs. 60K cup). Your best best bet, if you want to shoot a bunch of .45 colt level loads, is to buy .454 casull dies, and simply load the cases with standard (cowboy) .45 colt, or "+P" .45 colt loads. Good luck and stay safe!

 

[Redhawk1]

PremiumSauces and rcmodel, How can you give a bunch of advice without actually having any experience with this conversion.

Now I have had my 454 Casull conversion for over 6 years now, I shoot 45 ACP in moon clips, I shoot 45 Win Mags in moon clips, I shoot 45 Colts and 454 Casull's all in the same day. Not just a few, I am talking about 50 to 100 of each.

How can you two make such clams, are you guys gunsmiths? Have either of you any actual experience with such a conversion? If not what qualifies you to make such clams?

 

[Hokkmike]

The .454 runs 65,000 PSI pressure. More then most bolt-action Magnum rifles.

Puma (Rossi) makes a lever action for this caliber.

Don't most 270's run around this pressure as well?

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

How can you two make such clams, are you guys gunsmiths?

No. Amateur gunsmith, but no, not really.

Have either of you any actual experience with such a conversion?

No

If not what qualifies you to make such claims?

Nothing really, other than reading a lot and talking with a lot of gunny people. So I could very well be wrong. But I'm still sure as heck not standing within 3 lanes of you at the range. Do you clean the cylinders regularly and thoroughly? That might explain the lack of kb (as I stated above). If not, then I would stand (or sit) corrected by your experience.