45acp why the FMJ for Mill. ?

[fourdollarbill]

Learning a little about the 1911 45acp this week and discovered that it was used in the military for a long time. But also learned they used "Ball Ammo" or "FMJ". Why ?
Why would they not used a hollow point or a least a soft point because it is a better man stopper?

 

[AirForceShooter]

Hauge Convention

AFS

 

[springfield30-06]

The Hague Convention of 1899 requires that contracting countries agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions.

 

[SalchaketJoe]

Because the Hague conventions of some 100 odd years ago banned the use of "dum dum" bullets by the military. Bullets that cause unneccesary suffering.

 

[fourdollarbill]

Bullets that cause unnecessary suffering.

Not arguing the point but that sounds back asswards. I would rather be knocked down and stop living instantly verses a slow leak down.

 

[REAPER4206969]

The reason is JHP bullets are to costly and time consuming to produce for military use. Especially in a "total war" scenario. Soft points won't work well at the .45's low velocity either.

 

[481]

Learning a little about the 1911 45acp this week and discovered that it was used in the military for a long time. But also learned they used "Ball Ammo" or "FMJ". Why ?

'Cause if it even catches your pinkie finger, it'll tear your arm off and leave you spinning around.






Sorry guys. Couldn't resist.

 

[JTQ]

The Convention aside, hollow point rounds weren't even available, for the most part, until the 1970's. The 1911 was replaced by the M9 in 1985. "Ball Ammo" or "FMJ" is still used in the 9MM M9.

 

[verdun59]

It kind of boggles the mind doesn't it. You can hand grenade your enemy, you can bomb him, strafe him with a plane, flame throw him, bayonet him, blow him up with artillery shells, BUT you cannot use hollow points.

 

[barneyrw]

<<"It kind of boggles the mind doesn't it.">>

Not really, in 1899 airplanes and flame throwers had not been invented yet, hand grenades were very primitive and not widely used. There was still a gentlemanly aspect to war in a lot of the civilized world.

 

[JTQ]

The US caught a bunch of grief for using shotguns.

 

[verdun59]

but but but WWI, WWII, Korea, VietNam,etc. etc. etc. were not fought in 1899......

 

[gwnorth]

The military likes simple and reliable. Ball ammo feeds most reliably of all and is cheapest to mass produce in standard sized/weight rounds.

 

[Drail]

Even without considering the Hague conventions the military prefers using one type of round that will work in semi auto and full auto weapons. (Thompsons) Early hollow point designs were not very good. I thought I read somewhere that the United States never even signed the Hague document.

 

[rcmodel]

The U.S. did not sign the Hague Accords of 1899 that mainly delt with the humain treatment of prisoners of war & civilians caught up in the conflect. It also banned the use of poison gas.

The U.S. did sign the Hague Accords of 1907 that delt with the Rules of Land Warfare, including bullets that caused "needless pain & suffering". This time around poison gas was not included. Mainly because Germany was planning on using it in WWI, and didn't want us shooting back with dum-dum bullets!

Anyway, to answer the OP's question.
FMJ is very cheap to produce, feeds well in anything, shrugs off dirt & mud, penetrates heavy clothing & web gear, hard targets like vehicle sheet metal & helmets, and soft cover like earth berms better then expanding bullets.

Dollars to donuts we would still continue to use it, even if we were allowed to use JHP pistol ammo under the international rules of warfare.

Do not confuse the needs of the military with those of cops & civilians.
The JHP's one-shot stops without over-penetration are not even a consideration for military ammo planning & testing.

rc