".460 S&W leaves every other big-bore handgun cartridge in the dust."

[454c]

Quote Redhawk1;
I have done plenty of research already.



Good,maybe you can answer my question.How did the 454 compare to the 460 with the same bullets,barrel and chrono ? The story in the starting thread used a pointed,light bullet in one and a flat,heavy bullet in the other.Pretty much one sided and useless info.:banghead:

 

[Redhawk1]

454c, I am not shooting the 454 in my 460 Mags, I like the 460 Mag for what it is. I only shot 454 Casull's in it when I was waiting for the 460 Mag ammo and supplies to become available. I do all my load work up with the 460 Mags not the 454 Casull. Sorry I can't be of more help to you.

 

[Redhawk1]

MCgunner, just for your info, the Encore does not accept short mag chambers, barrel is to thin. Also the thread is about big-bore handgun cartriges, not rifle cartriges. Hell I could go with a 30-06 barrel in my Encore pistol, like I use to shoot, but I have not seen any revolvers chambered for the round so I guess the S&W 460Mag will have to do.

Maybe you should start your own thread about Encore barrels, because it really has nothing to do with this thread. This is the revolver section of the forums

 

[jerkface11]

Is handgun hunting at 200 yards considered ethical?

 

[Redhawk1]

jerkface11, sure it is. If the person and gun are up to the task. I am sure long range hand gunning is not for everyone, but there are some of us that have the ability.

"Is handgun hunting at 200 yards considered ethical?" To me it is. I hate when someone tries to impose there idea's of ethic's on others or even question it. What one considers ethical, may not be to another person as ethical and should not even be an issue as long as it is legal.

If you want to talk ethics, why not start you own thread and see how many people participate. I know I won't, it is like talking religion and politics and no one can agree.

 

[bowfin]

Redhawk1,

You seem to be saying you like the challenge of hunting with a pistol over a rifle, but you would take any advantage that closes the gap between rifle and pistol performance, thus minimizing the challenge. That is an old bowhunter's trick, they sniff at guys who hunt turkeys with a shotgun, but most actually need a cart to carry their blind and decoys and other junk they require to close or negate the performance gap they say they value with a bow.

I guess you can still try to associate as a kindred spirit of a guys who go out with open sighted .41 Magnums or .44 Specials and take a deer with a hard cast bullet, but you are far closer to me and my 7mm Rem Mag than you are to them.

Not saying your philosophy is right or wrong, but when judging whether someone is really trying to be more sporting, the devil is in the details...

 

[Redhawk1]

bowfin, no matter the performance of a handgun, it will never compare to a rifle. Don't try to make it seem that a 460 Mag that is capable of shooting 200 yards is compared to a rifle. These are two totally different platforms to shoot from. In my opinion it is not a hard task to shot an animal at 200 yards with a rifle. But for any handgun no matter the cartridge it is a hell of a lot more challenging. It was never my intention to compare myself to any other hunter or way they hunt. I do what I like for hunting, I frankly could careless what you or anyone else thinks of the way I hunt. Most of my hunting is done on the ground without a blind, I use good common sense, natural cover and a good hunting ability to be successful. I bow hunt as well as handgun hunt. If a rifle is needed I will use a rifle also.

So use your analogy on me all you want. But in my opinion I would rather handgun hunt than rifle hunt, to me it is more challenging. If the 460 Mag was so easy to accomplish 200 yards shots with don't you think there would be more handgun hunters than rifle hunters. It takes a lot of dedication to be a 200 yards handgun hunter. You would be lucky to find many good handgun hunters that can consistently shoot well at 70 or 100 yards.

 

[bowfin]

/* do what I like for hunting, I frankly could care less what you or anyone else thinks of the way I hunt*/

We are kindred spirits, then.

However, if you use a handgun designed to give rifle like performance, (which was the whole reason behind the .460, or at least why my brother bought one when he already had a legal handgun for deer hunting) then you won't need handgun like skill. It is not a matter of opinion, it is an exercise in logic. Anything done to make Item A more like Item B detracts from its uniqueness in Being Item A and not Item B.

I don't think there is an argument in there.

As for 70-100 yard shots with a handgun, I rang too many 6" gongs at a 100 yards with Blackhawks, Redhawks, Super Blackhawks and even a 10mm to believe it is as tough as sometimes presented. Scope any of those, and it becomes far easier yet

 

[Redhawk1]

bowfin, Preach that crap to someone else. If you don't have enough common sense to tell the difference, I don't have the time to explain it to you. You come for an argument and to try to make a point that is not even a good argument.

A hand held gun is in no way in comparison to a rifle, if you think it is you are not as intelligent as you wish others to believe. Also hitting a "gong" at 60 to 100 yards does not guarantee a humane kill on game. I think that is what we were talking about in this thread. I really don't even know why I am posting this, but I just can't stand someone throwing there twisted way of think and trying to make sense of it. To entertain the thought that a handgun that shoots a bullet accurately at 200 yards is easy to accomplish is ludicrous or to compare it to a rifle is just plain dumb. :banghead:

Do you understand the concept of a shoulder fired firearm opposed to a handheld firearm?

 

[bowfin]

How is hitting a 6" gong at a 100 yards different from hitting a deer at 100 yards?

Last deer I gutted seemed to have a chest cavity larger than 6", but your results may vary.

/*A hand held gun is in no way in comparison to a rifle, if you think it is you are not as intelligent as you wish others to believe.*/

...and it is not the challenge that you are proclaiming it is. Sorry to burst your bubble. I used to weld up gongs for the boys with the TC Contenders at the range. If it was harder for them to shoot a deer at 200 yards than it would be for me with a rifle, they never let on to it.

/*I am sure long range hand gunning is not for everyone, but there are some of us that have the ability.*/

Oh, I see the problem now, I accidentally knocked you down from one of the annointed few to just another one of us who have the opportunity to shoot a lot. Sorry to burst another bubble, but when it comes to shooting, ability is way down the list under practice. If you can eat with a fork without stabbing your eye out, you can learn to kill a deer at a hundred yards with a handgun, given the time and ammunition.

 

[Redhawk1]

bowfin,
If you want to be an arm chair expert that is good, but don't think you can convince people other wise that really know what they are talking about. You may be able to BS others but not me. Sure I can sit at a bench and shoot golf ball all day at 200 yards with my T/C Encore in 223, and I have done it a lot. But I am talking about using my handguns for hunting at further distances then the normal handgun range. Not shooting off a bench. Two totally different concepts again. All your examples and bubble busting don't mean S**t.

I just feel bad for you being a mental midget and trying to make yourself look good on my account. I really don't need to respond to you because you already make yourself look like an A$$. Never argue with a fool other may not be able to tell the difference. I am through discussing this with you. :banghead:

 

[454c]

Thanks anyway Redhawk.The closest I've found so far is a couple factory loads at COR BON but again,not the same barrel and no load data.I did find a couple interesting loads at the Freedom Arms site.A 240 and 260 bullet passing the 2000 fps marker with a 7.5 barrel.

 

[bowfin]

/*I am through discussing this with you. */

You were actually through "discussing" about two posts ago, and moved into the insults and flaming. So based on that, I will certainly take you up on your offer for silence.

Handguns in the field aren't that different than on the bench, because anyone who has ever hunted with a handgun will tell you that the first thing to do is look for a tree, rock, fence post, or something to use as a steady rest when a shot is at hand. If you don't, then you are indeed in for a challenging shot. Even Bob Milek would tell you that, if he were still on this Earth.

As an added bonus to those who have suffered through the posts of Redhawk and myself turning out less than "High Road", I will make a less than graceful exit from this thread also.

 

[Redhawk1]

454c, I really like the 240 and 260 gr. loads for the 460 Mag.

 

[ARTiger]

I've hunted deer many ways - one of my favorite of which over the past 5-6 years has been using my S&W 629 .44 mag (6" bbl w/ iron sights). To get to where I hunt often means a hike of 2-6 miles through woods with fairly thick undergrowth. Being able to carry a holstered pistol versus messing with a rifle on a sling makes all sorts of sense. The dilema has been that although many of the shots I get are 25-100 yards, there are some clearings and power line easements where you can get 150 to 300 yard "opportunities".

The.44 mag is not exactly a flat shooting round past 75-100 yards with a 6" tube so I've missed my chance a quite a few deer. I just bought a 5" 460 which should remedy that situation. Is shooting a deer at 200 yards as easy with a 5" (or even 8 inch) .460 than say a 30-30 (about the ballistic equivalent)? Abesloutely not! For anyone to suggest so is ludicrous.

So why not use a rifle calibered TC? Just try getting a quick follow up shot at 30 -60 yards on a deer through thick woods.

The .460 make sense for quite a few hunting situations. Substitute deer for moose in my scenario above and you'll describe about most of the moose hunting that goes on in NW Ontario/ Eastern Saskatchewan.

S&W's .460 IS the most useful, versatile big bore revolver to come along in a long time - much more so than their own .500, Ruger's .480, etc. It's no novelty "who's got the biggest" pissing contest winner, but rather a practical gun that'll do a lot of chores really well.

 

[ARTiger]

duplicate post- sorry, the server didn't respond the first time.

 

[Redhawk1]

ARTiger, Another real handgun shooter here. Glad to see your post, you made perfect sense.

 

[ARTiger]

ARTiger, Another real handgun shooter here. Glad to see your post, you made perfect sense.

Glad I made sense to someone. I have a lot of my bowhunter buddies who think that way I hunt is wacky, but then again, my freezer is always full even when theirs isn't. Hats off to them though - I just can't sit still that long and live where the deer are so thick it makes sense to try multiple locations.

Maybe handgun hunting needs to be reclassified as "revolver or autoloading pistol hunting" To me a TC in a rifle caliber is just a short rifle. Fine if you want to sit in a stand and "plink" deer, but to get on the ground and walk upwind a bit then see a deer before it sees you, make like a statue for a few seconds or a few minutes and shoot it with a wheelgun to me at least seems like more of a challenge (and a helluva lot of fun). I can now (with the .460) also see a reason to get a bear and/or elk tag for next season.

 

[Redhawk1]

ARTiger, I also like to stalk game. I can only sit in one place so long. I have seen deer 600 to 700 yards away and made a stock to within 200 yards but never got a shot or light was fading fast. I am a bow hunter at heart and love the up close hunting, as I do with a handgun. but with the 460 Mag I know after all my practice, I would be able to make a lot further shot than with my old 44 Mag if needed.

 

[Redhawk1]

ARTiger, I just ordered my 4th 460 Mag today, a S&W 460 Mag in a 5 inch barrel.

 

[ARTiger]

ARTiger, I just ordered my 4th 460 Mag today, a S&W 460 Mag in a 5 inch barrel.

Great! Now you can help me figure out what sort of sights/scope to use. It shoots accurately farther than I can do justice with my old eyes, but I dont want to give up the versatility of making a quick 50 -100 yard shot as well. Any ideas? I'm lost in the optics category. (The last gun I scoped was a 7mm Weatherby rifle about 10 years ago.)

 

[ARTiger]

I just read that again . . . FOURTH .460?? You have either a bigger budget or more forgiving wife than I do! How did you set up the other 3 and what barrel lengths do you have?

 

[MCgunner]

Redhawk1
Senior Member



Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Delaware
Posts: 151 bowfin,
If you want to be an arm chair expert that is good, but don't think you can convince people other wise that really know what they are talking about. You may be able to BS others but not me. Sure I can sit at a bench and shoot golf ball all day at 200 yards with my T/C Encore in 223

Thought you said to keep the T/C out of the conversation in a revolver thread?

I used to shoot IHMSA with my...uh...IHMSA gun in a wildcat caliber not based on a revolver round so I can't mention it. But, point being, we're shooting creedmore (not a great hunting field position you're going to use much on deer) at KNOWN ranges. Okay, it's iron sights, but really good iron sights. The rear sight is micrometer click for elevation. You have a spotter to tell you where you're hitting. You get ten shots on ten rams (for instance) at 200 yards. I always found the friggin' turkeys at 150 the hardest for some reason. Now, you can hit 'em, heck, knew guys that shot master 40 our of 40 all the time. I wasn't one of 'em, shot 33-35 usually, was sort of learning the sport, a newbie. But, it didn't matter if you hit that down sized ram in the horn or the foot or the tail, so long as it fell over it scored. Also, I learned to keep sight adjustment info to put me on at each range, exactly 50-100-150-200. I already knew the range within a foot, no need for any rangefinders, would reference the setting and adjust for each.

Now, that round I was shooting shoots at about 2100 fps, pretty close to said .460, but shot a 7mm boat tail spitzer that had a GREAT BC by comparison so shot rather flat. All this was under controlled conditions and while not off a bench was of a rather impractical position to be using in the field and is practically off a bench once you practice it.

I've done quite a bit of handgun hunting and I limit my shots to 100 yards even with my...uh...non-revolver. I think 100 yards, personally, with some exceptions is a practical range limit for handguns of any design, at least for me, and then only if I'm shooting off a decent field rest like in a box blind or off my shooting sticks. I don't wish to wound game, coyote or feral dog maybe, but not game. I can also tell you this, in the field, off hand, weaver or isosceles as you'd be shooting defensively, 50 yards is a LONG way to be making hits in the boiler room of a deer. I won't attempt a 100 yard shot unless I can find a decent rest and get the gun still.

I know that out west, it might be possible to shoot off a back pack or something and get near sandbags steady on, say, a pronghorn, but in the hunting I've done with handguns, that's the exception rather than the rule. Getting prone usually means being obscured by grass and ground clutter. Laying down in West Texas can get you skewered by something thorny, too.

My $.02 on the 200 yard shooting. If you're better than me and can hit farther out, go for it. I don't have such lofty opinions of my handgun skills, and I'm using a 2X scope on a rifle like handgun in a rifle caliber. That's sorta what I use a handgun for, since I can't shoot a bow worth a toot, putting the hunt back in hunting.

 

[Redhawk1]

Good one MCgunner, I like a guy with a since of humor.

 

[Redhawk1]

ARTiger, I like the Ultra-dot Match-dot. My current set ups are. A PC model S&W 460 Mag 7.5 inch barrel with a Ultra-dot Match-dot, my second is a PC model S&W 460 Mag 7.5 inch barrel with a Bushnell 2X6X32 scope and third is a T/C Encore with a 12 inch barrel with a Bushnell 2X6X32 scope. The 5 inch I will get with wear a Ultra-dot Match-dot also. I am getting ready to sell my T/C Encore 460 Mag pistol. I have not shot it as much as I thought I would, I like the S&W's better.

Also, my wife is very understanding.