5.56 reloading issue

[wdsimpso]

So I am new to reloading and have referred to this forum for help for other issues. But this one baffles me on how to fix. So I am using a Hornady AP Press to reload 223 and 5.56 rounds for my Daniels Defense AR. I loaded about 500 55gr 223 rounds the other day and had no issues when I shot them yesterday.

Now comes my issue. I loaded 5 5.56 rounds using Hornady 60gr Vmax bullets (loading this round for coyote hunting in my AR) with Winchester WSR primers and 8028 XBR powder. The casings were all trimmed to 1.750. I used an OAL and headspace gauge to measure the inside of my rifle for the Vmax rounds. I found a max OAL of 2.918. However, my magazines will only allow for a 2.894 max. I go outside and test fire a few rounds. First trigger pull, **Click** no boom and I have to really pull to extract the bullet. Second round, Boom and ejection was just fine. Third trigger pull, Boom and ejection.

So I load 10 more rounds up of the 5.56 Vmax to take to the range to dial my AR in with them. Get to the range and every trigger pull is the same. Click, hard pull to eject, Click, hard pull to eject, Click, hard pull to eject, Click, hard pull to eject.

So I mag dumped another 40 of the 223 rounds I had also made at the same time as the Vmax rounds. Again, I had no issues with these rounds.

I thought there may be a primer issue. I checked the rounds and there were no indentions on the primers when I checked them. So my guess is that the primers are recessed to far into the brass preventing the firing pin from striking them. But I don't see any adjustment for primer depth on my press. Maybe when I cut the crimp out of this brass I somehow cut a deeper primer pocket?

Any help would be great. Again, I am new to the loading game, so sorry if this is a stupid question.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I suspect the issue is with your gun.

 

[GoldieMI]

I found a max OAL of 2.918. However, my magazines will only allow for a 2.894 max

want to verify these? should be 2.26" for mag length- somewhere in that area depending on the magazine used

 

[243winxb]

COL to long. Bolt not locked closed.

 

[edwardware]

I thought there may be a primer issue. I checked the rounds and there were no indentions on the primers when I checked them. So my guess is that the primers are recessed to far into the brass preventing the firing pin from striking them.

Not physically possible, but what is possible, and almost certainly is your problem, is that the brass (insufficient sizing) or the bullet (insufficient seating) is preventing a complete return to battery. The bolt carrier is running far enough forward for the hammer to fall, but not far enough for the hammer to strike the pin (for which you should be thankful).

Plunk test those rounds. I'll bet they aren't chambering. The hard ejection is a dead giveaway.

 

[AJC1]

Did you push the shoulder back to far so the firing pin just pushes the case forward.

 

[JFrank]

So I am new to reloading and have referred to this forum for help for other issues. But this one baffles me on how to fix. So I am using a Hornady AP Press to reload 223 and 5.56 rounds for my Daniels Defense AR. I loaded about 500 55gr 223 rounds the other day and had no issues when I shot them yesterday.

Now comes my issue. I loaded 5 5.56 rounds using Hornady 60gr Vmax bullets (loading this round for coyote hunting in my AR) with Winchester WSR primers and 8028 XBR powder. The casings were all trimmed to 1.750. I used an OAL and headspace gauge to measure the inside of my rifle for the Vmax rounds. I found a max OAL of 2.918. However, my magazines will only allow for a 2.894 max. I go outside and test fire a few rounds. First trigger pull, **Click** no boom and I have to really pull to extract the bullet. Second round, Boom and ejection was just fine. Third trigger pull, Boom and ejection.

So I load 10 more rounds up of the 5.56 Vmax to take to the range to dial my AR in with them. Get to the range and every trigger pull is the same. Click, hard pull to eject, Click, hard pull to eject, Click, hard pull to eject, Click, hard pull to eject.

So I mag dumped another 40 of the 223 rounds I had also made at the same time as the Vmax rounds. Again, I had no issues with these rounds.

I thought there may be a primer issue. I checked the rounds and there were no indentions on the primers when I checked them. So my guess is that the primers are recessed to far into the brass preventing the firing pin from striking them. But I don't see any adjustment for primer depth on my press. Maybe when I cut the crimp out of this brass I somehow cut a deeper primer pocket?

Any help would be great. Again, I am new to the loading game, so sorry if this is a stupid question.

Sounds like excessive headspace

 

[Blue68f100]

The round is not fully chambering, the reason it's hard to eject and fires on the send round. The way a AR is designed the bolt must be fully forward for the hammer to hit the firing pin with enough energy to set one off. When hammer hits the bolt first it's driving the round further into the chamber. Take you upper off and drop a round into the chamber, push it in with your finger till it bottoms. Now turn it up and see if it falls out. If it does not you have our bullet stuck into the lands. Which will require a cleaning rod to remove. Correct the OAL issue then test again with a dummy round, no Powder or Primer. Now chamber the round and see if it ejects easily.. If so you have it corrected and proceed to load up some rounds. But remember you just shortened the round so you may have to rework you load to account for the shorter length.

Like stated the Max OAL for a 223/556 is 2.260" to fit the magazine, Chambers can be longer but to use them you must single feed. There are a few mags that will take 2.270" most do not.

 

[buba68]

For all practical purposes the only difference between the 223 and the 5.56 loads is putting more powder into the 5.56 loads. If you are using mil brass for the 5.56 loads the brass might be a tad bit thicker on the walls. You are seating your bullet out to long. This is not letting the bolt carrier go full into battery. Use the same OAL for your 5.56 loads as you use for the 223 loads and your problem should go away. I assume you are using the same reloading dies for both 223 and 5.56 right? I load a 69gr sierra bthp to 2.23 and they work ok so your 60 gr Vmax can be seated deeper in the case.

 

[Cemetery21]

Will your brass chamber and extract after sizing and before loading? Eliminate a sizing problem first.
Then, if they don't chamber and extract after seating a bullet to mag length, it's likely the crimp is bumping the shoulder out just enough to bind in the chamber.
As said above, bolt doesn't close enough for firing pin to contact the primer since shoulders are binding in the chamber.

 

[Average Joe]

Did you use a case gauge to spot check your reloads?

 

[buba68]

Did you use a case gauge to spot check your reloads?

The OP said that he loaded 500 rounds of 223 and they worked ok. So if the OP used the same dies to load his 5.56 rounds and only changed the OAL for a different bullet I would think the longer OAL is keeping the bolt from going into battery. So if he goes back to his original OAL everything should be good to go.

 

[edwardware]

If you are using mil brass for the 5.56 loads the brass might be a tad bit thicker on the walls.

Backwards.

7.62 is sometimes heavier than .308 commercial. LC5.56 is on the light side of .223 commercial.

 

[buba68]

Backwards.

7.62 is sometimes heavier than .308 commercial. LC5.56 is on the light side of .223 commercial.

Some of the LC brass might be but a lot of mil spec brass is heavier than normal 223 brass

 

[David Hoback]

Can you verify your OAL? As stated, there is no way your AR can chamber even a 2.500” OAL round, let alone 2.918”. 2.26”+/- is our limit on the AR. It does sound like shoulders are being pushed back to far.

 

[PWC]

Go to the SAAMI website, print and save the data sheet for that round. Get your calipers out and measure your round against SAAMI...problem cure will be self evident

 

[armoredman]

So I am new to reloading and have referred to this forum for help for other issues. But this one baffles me on how to fix. So I am using a Hornady AP Press to reload 223 and 5.56 rounds for my Daniels Defense AR. I loaded about 500 55gr 223 rounds the other day and had no issues when I shot them yesterday.

Now comes my issue. I loaded 5 5.56 rounds using Hornady 60gr Vmax bullets (loading this round for coyote hunting in my AR) with Winchester WSR primers and 8028 XBR powder. The casings were all trimmed to 1.750. I used an OAL and headspace gauge to measure the inside of my rifle for the Vmax rounds. I found a max OAL of 2.918. However, my magazines will only allow for a 2.894 max. I go outside and test fire a few rounds. First trigger pull, **Click** no boom and I have to really pull to extract the bullet. Second round, Boom and ejection was just fine. Third trigger pull, Boom and ejection.

So I load 10 more rounds up of the 5.56 Vmax to take to the range to dial my AR in with them. Get to the range and every trigger pull is the same. Click, hard pull to eject, Click, hard pull to eject, Click, hard pull to eject, Click, hard pull to eject.

So I mag dumped another 40 of the 223 rounds I had also made at the same time as the Vmax rounds. Again, I had no issues with these rounds.

I thought there may be a primer issue. I checked the rounds and there were no indentions on the primers when I checked them. So my guess is that the primers are recessed to far into the brass preventing the firing pin from striking them. But I don't see any adjustment for primer depth on my press. Maybe when I cut the crimp out of this brass I somehow cut a deeper primer pocket?

Any help would be great. Again, I am new to the loading game, so sorry if this is a stupid question.

Holy cowski that is a LONG round...way too long. 2.26 is about as long as I ever go, including the V-MAX bullets. You are jamming the bullet into the lands before the round is fully chambered and the bolt in battery. That's why you have to mortar them out - betcha there are some lands/grooves marking on the bullet.

 

[JJFitch]

A black magic marker is your friend. To determine what's really happening "paint" the bullet and shoulder to see where the resistance is and preventing RTB! Chamber a round and see where the "paint" is scraped off.

Testing a round that failed would be the best bet!

Chances are, seating the bullet a little deeper will solve the described problem as mentioned above.

Smiles,

 

[jmorris]

I loaded about 500 55gr 223 rounds the other day and had no issues when I shot them yesterday.

You are in good shape because you have the ability to load ammunition that works and can reproduce functional rounds to compare with your rounds that don’t.

Now comes my issue. I loaded 5 5.56 rounds using Hornady 60gr Vmax bullets (loading this round for coyote hunting in my AR) with Winchester WSR primers and 8028 XBR powder. The casings were all trimmed to 1.750. I used an OAL and headspace gauge to measure the inside of my rifle for the Vmax rounds. I found a max OAL of 2.918. However, my magazines will only allow for a 2.894 max. I go outside and test fire a few rounds. First trigger pull, **Click** no boom and I have to really pull to extract the bullet. Second round, Boom and ejection was just fine. Third trigger pull, Boom and ejection.

What changed? The bullet is different, did anything else change?

This is the first thing I do, size and deprime the case, put it into the chamber with the BCG back then let it go forward and snap over the rim and lock into place. If it ejects fine your ammunition should function. If it doesn’t close, you either have too long case length or are not sized enough, same thing goes for “sticky”, if it closes but the round stays in the chamber vs the extractor pulling it back out, it’s sized too much.

You can do all of that before you load a single round and would suggest you do. It is OK at that point but gets messed up after at least you know where to look for a solution and where you won’t find one.

 

[RainDodger]

Edware in post #5.

 

[wdsimpso]

Thanks for the help guys. That’s why I came here. After reading some of your comments I have done some of the trouble shooting you guys mentioned. I remeasured my gun with the OAL Gauge and the vmax. I still come up with 1.931.5 as an average. But, I might have Misread my OAL Gauge when combined with the comparator. I didn’t zero it out after adding the head space comparator on it. When I did this I got a lower number. I now have 1.889.5 as an average on the rounds. This length does fit in all of my mags.

As far as the dies go, I did a full length resize on them and I didn’t change anything on the die when I switched from 223 to 5.56.

Also, you guys were right about the bolt carrier. The carrier doesn’t close all of the way with these Vmax rounds. I have no idea how I didn’t notice this! So I guess I’ll need to def shorten them up some more.

I did try some test loading on just the cases. I did empty 223 and 5.56 cases. Didn’t have any real issues with either. A tiny bit stiff but nothing like what I have to do with the Vmax rounds.

lastly, I did put my calipers on the primers. Most of them are seated between .002 and .005.

I have attached pictures. Once again, thank you guys for all of your help!!!

 

[wdsimpso]

Will your brass chamber and extract after sizing and before loading? Eliminate a sizing problem first.
Then, if they don't chamber and extract after seating a bullet to mag length, it's likely the crimp is bumping the shoulder out just enough to bind in the chamber.
As said above, bolt doesn't close enough for firing pin to contact the primer since shoulders are binding in the chamber.

I made a reply below and tried to answer all of the questions asked. Thanks for your help on this!

 

[wdsimpso]

You are in good shape because you have the ability to load ammunition that works and can reproduce functional rounds to compare with your rounds that don’t.



What changed? The bullet is different, did anything else change?

This is the first thing I do, size and deprime the case, put it into the chamber with the BCG back then let it go forward and snap over the rim and lock into place. If it ejects fine your ammunition should function. If it doesn’t close, you either have too long case length or are not sized enough, same thing goes for “sticky”, if it closes but the round stays in the chamber vs the extractor pulling it back out, it’s sized too much.

You can do all of that before you load a single round and would suggest you do. It is OK at that point but gets messed up after at least you know where to look for a solution and where you won’t find one.

Nothing has changed but the powder weight and the bullet itself. The brass loads fine when it’s just the brass. And the brass is a little sticky but not so sticky that the extractor doesn’t remove and eject the brass

 

[jmorris]

Nothing has changed but the powder weight and the bullet itself.

Makes it easy, 500 rounds that run fine until you change the bullet then no go, it’s the bullet/seating depth.

Sorry about my confusion, in the op, you used “.223” to identify the stuff that ran then changed the term to “5.56” on the stuff that failed, so I wasn’t sure if that inferred that you did something different or were using different components.

 

[GoldieMI]

sharpie the bullet, neck, and shoulder of the vmax round that is an issue. Chamber it and then see where the sharpie is rubbed off....there's your interference.
do your 5.56/vmax rounds fit in the magazine?