5.56mm NATO against deer

[abrink]

I'm new to hunting and i'm wondering if a 5.56mm NATO would be enough to take down a deer. Because i know some people hunt with .30-06 so i though 5.56 might be a little on the small side.

And also may i ask if you can shoot .223 in a 5.56mm rifle? I'm pretty sure you can. Thanks!

 

[kentucky_Dave]

You can shoot 223 in a 5.56, but not the other way around.

 

[Shawnee]

I've known a half-dozen or so people who shoot deer every year with a .223. But they are experienced deer hunters and good riflemen who know where (physically) to shoot the deer and when to not shoot. Rarely do the shoot farther than 200 yds, even though certain types of shots with a .223 will kill deer a bit farther than that. They are good enough hunters that they can intentionally keep most of their shots down to 150yds. or less.

The .243 Winchester cartridge is a supremely excellent deer cartridge and effective well beyond the ranges at which 99.999999999% of the deer are taken every year.

Many elephants have been killed with 30/06 rifles. I would never recommend the 30/06 for hunters in this hemisphere.

 

[Eric F]

if you are going to do it bullet selection is key. most states I have hunted in have a .24 minimum bullet size for a reason. of corse headshots will work most of the time.

 

[rcmodel]

Before going deer hunting, it's wise to familiarize yourself with the state laws concerning deer hunting.

Virginia has a .23 minimum caliber requirement.
A .223 would not be legal.
http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/regulations/general.asp

rcmodel

 

[koja48]

Against Deer?

If deer were attacking mine/me and a .223 was all I had available, I'd use it. If my intent were to HUNT deer, I'd select a better (as in larger) caliber, from .243 on up. No need for magnum thumpers, although the 7mm & .30 mags have their place in the wide-open west where long shots are the norm (not so much for the power, but rather for the flatter trajectory . . . BUT, you still have to be able to master the recoil & hit the target). In most situations, it's hard to beat an '06 or .270 or the venerable 30-30.

 

[ArmedBear]

California has no caliber limit, HOWEVER it does require "soft nose or expanding bullets". This would mean you can't use any NATO ammo, which is FMJ.

You could use hunting bullets in a 5.56 rifle, of course, but that ammo is called ".223 Remington" usually.

That said, see Shawnee's post.

 

[skinewmexico]

My 12 yo twins killed 9 deer last year, with a 223. Used Remington 55g Core-lokts, from 90-150 yards. One went 10 yards, the others were DRT. A bigger caliber is a poor substitute for shot placement.

 

[Deer Hunter]

I've seen bad hunters shoot at little 100 pound deer three times with a 30-06 and still either lose it or have to track it and put it down with another shot.

I've seen good hunters take 200 pound deer with a single .223.

Things to keep in mind.

1. Your skill with the rifle
2. The shot itself
3. Bullet construction

This applies across the board, no matter what caliber you use.

 

[Art Eatman]

If by 5.56mm NATO you're talking about using GI ammo, no, don't do it.

There are .223 commercial loads with bullets whiich can be effective on deer. However, most of us believe such small cartridges should not be the choice for those who are relatively inexperienced at shooting and at hunting.

Such cartridges as the .223 should be pretty much be reserved to those who are quite skilled shooters/hunters, folks with a good bit of experience.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

North Carolina has no caliber restrictions...at least not on a state level...some local restrictions apply.

Use good bullets (Barnes, Nosler Partition, Power Point, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, etc)...preferably 60 grains or heavier.

 

[eliphalet]

Ya suppose anyone ever uses the search before asking a question that has been ask dozens of times and as recent as a week or so ago??

 

[koja48]

A bigger caliber is a poor substitute for shot placement.

If some infered from my post that I intimated such, I didn't suggest that a larger caliber was a substitute for poor shot placement. In case I'm mistaken, I apologize in advance.

If you can't hit what you aim at, practice more; if you're afraid of the recoil, scale-back. I simply recommended a larger caliber which affords greater energy transmittal/shocking power. I have harvested lots of critters with the delightful-to-shoot & highly accurate .223, I just wouldn't use one for deer-sized critters when there are so many other more efficient & practical calibers & rifles that shoot them available.

As I stated in a similar thread:

"In order to render a clean & swift kill:

1) A hunter MUST be able to place the round where he/she intends the round to go.

2) The round MUST impart sufficient energy to effectively and humanely dispatch the quarry. Immobilizing said quarry in the immediate vicinity in which the shot was made is highly desirable.

It's a rather simple concept. "Too small" obviously isn't enough and may be cruelly unfair to the quarry; "too large" often compromises one's ability to accurately & consistently place the shot. Bring enuff gun, but not more gun than you can accurately use.

Kind of like vehicles . . . a Yugo can get you across country or might get you into a prime hunting spot; an 18-wheeler will/might do the same. While more folks could readily handle a Yugo than could handle an 18-wheeler, there are more appropriate & practical choices.

If you wouldn't hunt some critter with a small caliber such as .223 when said dangerous game could harm/kill/eat you, then extend the same consideration to those more genteel game animals. There are ethical hunters, there are opportunists/thrill-seekers, there are magnum ego-maniacs who may believe "size matters" & counters lousy marksmanship . . . I'll continue to be an ethical hunter. The greatest challenge I'm seeking is being able to find my Jeep in the mall parking lot . . ."

As for the stories of deer cleanly harvested with sub-calibers . . . there are similar stories of game that ran-off & unfortunately weren't recovered. We, as hunters, have an obligation. You could frame a house with a tack-hammer, too . . . just aren't a whole lot of folks would use that tool if heavier hammers more appropriate to the task were available.

 

[skinewmexico]

Ya suppose anyone ever uses the search before asking a question that has been ask dozens of times and as recent as a week or so ago??

Sure makes it easy to answer though.

 

[jedwi]

Don't use 5.56 in a .223. Use .223 in a 5.56 if you want..223 will kill Texas whitetails but I would go with .243 or larger....

 

[BrianB]

If you're going to use .223/5.56, use Nosler partition bullet from Federal. It is rated for medium game like deer. This of course, if there are no caliber restrictions in your area.

 

[alsaqr]

Never shot a deer with a .223 myself. My son has killed several deer with his .223 and they all bang flopped. Hogs are much harder to kill than deer. I have killed a bunch of hogs with my .223 rifles. Most of them were bang flops. I use the US military M193 round: Have never had a hog hit with that bullet get away. That bullet will go through a rib leaving a tiny hole, penetrate 4-6", turn sideways and come apart.

 

[skinewmexico]

The deer we've shot in Texas weren't big enough to make a Partition work. In any caliber I've tried it in. No expansion.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

They are expensive...but if you reload...Barnes 62 grain TSX bullets are the best...they penetrate ,expand and they are VERY accurate because they are more consistent in both concentricity and weight than any other bullet on the market.

You can also get them in 70 grains...but those require a 1 in 7" twist.

There are also some lighter ones...53 grains I think...but IMO those are too light for deer, they would hold together fine, but I don't believe anything less than 60 grains carries enough momentum to penetrate enough to be considered for deer or hogs.

 

[mossberg]

Many elephants have been killed with 30/06 rifles. I would never recommend the 30/06 to hunters in this hemisphere.

Why not. Everything I've heard has been positive. Which hemisphere do you live in? Just curious, and certainly not looking for trouble.

 

[Shawnee]

"Which hemisphere do you live in?"

Cute. "Buckeyeland" = Ohio.

"Just curious, and certainly not looking for trouble."


Ah, methinks that may be a bit of blarney, but I'll humor you, albeit in "short form". Here is the Logic.

The overwhelming majority of shots fired by American hunters with centerfire rifles fall into just three categories. Thus it makes sense to recommend calibers that serve the American shooter well in those three categories - and it makes no sense to recommend they use a caliber that is ill-suited for - or even detrimental to - the their shooting just because it has some characterictic they might (highly debatable) be able to use IF they go off - sometime in their lifetime - to fire a few shots at something extraordinary (1 in 20,000 or so chance, in Reality).

Those three categories are (in order of number of shots fired)...

1. Paper targets at 100yds. or less. Any of the .22 centerfires including the humble .22 Hornet will serve the American shooter quite nicely in this category and with much less pointless expense, noise or recoil than a caliber such as the 30/06. Stretch the yardage to 200yds. and the .22 centerfires are still the champs. Only a tiny fraction of shooters have access to target ranges longer than 200yds. No 30/06 needed, or logical, or even wanted.

2. "Varmints". Not difficult to kill but can be difficult to hit. Caliber needs to be flat-shooting and the rifle needs to be easy to shoot accurately. Low noise and low recoil aid the shooter tremendously. Low noise and easily disintegrating bullets in much of our "varmint country" are Good Things. Pointless recoil, thunderous reports and big slugs rattling around the barns and settlements are major Bad Things. Any of the .22 or .24 caliber centerfires will do a splendid job for the shooter in all respects. No 30/06 needed, or logical, or even wanted.

3. Whitetails, Mulies, and/or feral hogs - most at 100yds. or less and nearly ALL at less than 300yds. Many thousands are killed each year with bows, handguns, .22 centerfires and .24 centerfires. Yes - there are plenty of keyboard Alvin Yorks who will scoff at keeping shots at under 200yds, or even 300yds. But a few hundred-thousand bowhunters would scoff at them.
Fact is - a .24 caliber centerfire will do a fine job of taking any Whitetail, Mulie or hog in the land. (And please don't tell me about how big Mulies are until you've seen a few of our grainfed Ohio Whitetail monsters).
Of course there are those shooters who feel (or have read or been told) they need "insurance" - but what they really need is to get their "insurance" from skill, game knowledge and judgement. Caliber and noise is NOT "insurance". Fact is, many deer are wounded by bigger bores because the average American hunters shoot them less well (to put it kindly).
And finally there are the riflemen who aren't bright enough to get their ammo all the way from their home to their hunting area and just assume everyone else is as stupid as they are - so they recommend the 30/06 because (supposedly) the ammo is sold in every building in the Republic, including schools and churches. However I've met thousands of American hunters and most of them are not that dim-witted. Sorry - there is no compelling reason at all for a 30/06 in this category either.

And we've just covered 99.9999999% of the centerfire rifle shots fired in America.

"Ah", one of the argumentative little gun trolls jumps up and says - "what about Elk at 2,144 yds. and charging Grizzlies at 17 feet, and rabid Moose ?"

Well again - on a shots fired basis - we're talking fewer than a few dozen (maybe fewer than a dozen) shots fired in an entire lifetime by a tiny, tiny, fraction of a fraction of American hunters. And if someone has the rupees to go hunt Elk or Moose or Brown Bears, they have the money to buy a rifle especially for that purpose. And there simply are calibers that are fine for larger game and still easier for people to use well than the .30/06.
And if you have a grizzly charging at 17 feet you don't need a 30/06, you need a priest.

And that all means the 30/06 is a tremendously lousy caliber to recommend to American hunters.
Can you shoot paper with a 30/06? Sure ! Can you shoot a woodchuck or a prairie dog with it? Sure ! Can you shoot a deer or hog with it? Sure! Can you buy an 18-wheeler to drive back and forth to church and the Dew-Drop Inn? Sure.
Can you recommend the .30-ought-fuddy-duddy to American hunters? Well, you can if you want to.

But I won't.

 

[Byron]

The original 5.56 round was the M193.It will work well on deer but not the current M855. Some years ago on The Firing Line,the M193 was used to cull deer in a FL orange grove.The amount of damage on each deer was dramatic.
Byron

 

[MCgunner]

Beating a dead horse. Why do people wanna shoot big game with a .22? I mean, there are so many really GOOD choices for deer and larger game, why a pip squeak .22?

Always use the proper bullet and FMJ is NEVER the proper bullet except maybe in .45-70.

 

[Shawnee]

"Always use the proper bullet ..."

Absolutely right, McGunner, and also the reason why calibers like the '06 aren't needed, or even really good for deer.

In the old days up through about WWI, the traditional wisdom was: "Bigger game or longer distance = Bigger caliber" simply because one had to increase the caliber to get a bullet that could and would do its' job on larger game. During the settlement of Ohio and Kentucky the plpace was crawling with woods bison and elk - and they were wiped out with .36 caliber muzzleloaders. But nearly a hundred years of bullet construction technology progress has changed that old "wisdom" to lore.

Moving up the game size ladder should be viewed in terms of suitable bullets - which no longer necessarily means "larger caliber".
But as you say...a few of the .22 centerfire bullets are passable for deer in the average hunter's hands. But nearly all the .24 caliber bullets are just fine for deer with Joe Everyday behind the trigger and that is a matter of bullet construction and powder development. Caliber is merely a tangent factor.

Even the old "distance" whine falls in the dirt if you talk to bowhunters, handgun hunters, or honest riflemen and guides. Especially if you realize the World's Record Whitetail was killed by an Ohio bowhunter.


http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/tabid/13990/default.aspx

 

[MCgunner]

I know it can be done, I just don't understand why you'd wanna use a marginal caliber with ANY bullet compared to a more appropriate caliber. Hell, the .30-30 Winchester ain't broke, why would ya wanna fix it? It'll kill deer as far away as a .223 will and do a better job of anchoring it IMHO. It's less dependent on a magic bullet's performance and just a better choice.

I don't care much for black rifles, so maybe I have a bias. I just don't have any use for one and good ones cost too much and they handle like crap in the field. Give me a good straight stocked M94 or M336 in .30-30 any day over an AR in .223 and I'll be MUCH happier for deer hunting.

Okay, someone needs to say it, AR15s SUCK FOR HUNTING. Get one in .223 for deer and they double suck. JMHO of course. I fully expect the onslaught of mall ninjas to tell me that hunting didn't exist before the AR was invented. Whatever. Yeah, you can use your AR on deer with the right bullet, I mean, if you don't like hunting rifles.