5-Shot Snub: Enough Gun?

[.38 Special]

Meteor strike - where I live, a nut drove hundreds of miles just to shoot up a supermarket. He had body armor and unfortunately the armed security guard didn't go for a failure to stop procedure, just shot the vest. What more of a black swan event do you want and if the black swan flaps near you, a J isn't optimal. It is rare. So is being hit by lightning - I've been. It takes little effort to wear a decent belt semi and an extra mag. Again, the J is for a Bug or concealment constrictions that necessitate pocket carry. And they are not as easy to shoot. We know that from expertly conducted research. Of course some poster will claim be the J frame Robin Hood/William Tell of his domain. I shoot semis and Js in equivalent matches. The semis are easier and faster.

Those who say - teams of commandos - that's just a BS rhetorical conceit. There are plenty of two to three shooter incidents out there.

What steps have you taken to prevent being struck by lightning again - and how would you respond to someone who tells you they aren't enough?

 

[GEM]

Who says it will be dedicated guys and all of them all at once? I've done FOF with multiple, realistic incidents and separated opponents. And the lightning comment is irrelevant. I avoid the situation. If someone who know what they were talking about critiqued my lightning precautions, I would listen.

 

[.38 Special]

Who says it will be dedicated guys and all of them all at once?

That's what we've been talking about for the last half page at least.

I've done FOF with multiple, realistic incidents and separated opponents.

Which appears to be tailoring your training to what you can manage, rather than what might happen - as per @trackskippy's question.

And the lightning comment is irrelevant. I avoid the situation. If someone who know what they were talking about critiqued my lightning precautions, I would listen.

If you can dodge lightning as well as you dodged that question, I'd say you're perfectly safe.

 

[trackskippy]

See, youre STILL missing the whole point here. You do it, so you can do it, on demand, without having to think about it, "should" you ever need to do it. It isnt about the scenarios, or drills you run, its what you get out of them thats the important part here.

Be honest now, can you shoot well from however and whenever youre called to do so? THAT is the point. Its not about the scenarios, or where you live, what you carry, etc.

And generally, as has been mentioned numerous times before, we dont have a crystal ball, or radar on our phones for the meteor to know whats coming, so you get what you get, and from what you see over and over in practice, as soon as the difficulty of the problem becomes the least bit more involved, the number of rounds is very likely to go past the 5 round mark, pretty quickly.

If you dont want to put in that level of effort, thats fine too. Hopefully, none of us never need to use whatever skills we might have. I prefer to be as well prepared as I can, and not just assume Im good for anything that pops up, simply because I can shoot tight little bullseye groups once in a while.

Besides, I like to shoot, and why not make use of that and continue to learn and improve?

 

[.38 Special]

See, youre STILL missing the whole point here. You do it, so you can do it, on demand, without having to think about it, "should" you ever need to do it. It isnt about the scenarios, or drills you run, its what you get out of them thats the important part here.

Be honest now, can you shoot well from however and whenever youre called to do so? THAT is the point. Its not about the scenarios, or where you live, what you carry, etc.

And generally, as has been mentioned numerous times before, we dont have a crystal ball, or radar on our phones for the meteor to know whats coming, so you get what you get, and from what you see over and over in practice, as soon as the difficulty of the problem becomes the least bit more involved, the number of rounds is very likely to go past the 5 round mark, pretty quickly.

If you dont want to put in that level of effort, thats fine too. Hopefully, none of us never need to use whatever skills we might have. I prefer to be as well prepared as I can, and not just assume Im good for anything that pops up, simply because I can shoot tight little bullseye groups once in a while.

Besides, I like to shoot, and why not make use of that and continue to learn and improve?

I honestly don't know which point I've missed, if that was directed at me. My point is that we're arguing about hardware when the hardware just isn't that important.

 

[Kleanbore]

But again, (and again and again) the "bigger picture" is that we are unlikely to ever need a gun, let alone to need to fire it, let alone to need to empty it, let alone ever needing to reload it. ".

yes.

The need to carry a gun may never materialize, but it may be prudent to do so.

That is irrelevant to the discussion. The operative question is, what might we need when the event occurs. That's the concept of conditional probability. It's why we put on the seat belt even for short trips.

"Realistic" practice on multiple targets with multiple rounds and reloading in between isn't at all realistic, no matter what kind of a gun you are using.

There is nothing unrealistic about practicing for an engagement with two or three assailants.

Practicing reloading? I doubt one will use it, but when there is a malfunction....

And looking at it from the other direction, don't you ever feel foolish when running 15+ second drills against half a dozen targets, blowing through multiple magazines?

The only purpose of such drills is to squeeze more repetitions into the time at the range. There's no reason to feel foolish, if you understand that.

If four or more dedicated guys come at you in... you simply don't have time to shoot them all before they overwhelm you, regardless of the number of rounds in your gun.

If one is rushed by four people all at once, one is in trouble.

But in some real world incidents, the defender has shot one assailant, only to be accosted by another who is drawn to the sound. And there could be the driver. (I know, they'll all turn tail)

 

[trackskippy]

I honestly don't know which point I've missed, if that was directed at me. My point is that we're arguing about hardware when the hardware just isn't that important.

Everything is important, and things are all part of a package. The guns no good without you, and vice versa.

You can have all the training and skill in the world, but the second the problem becomes more difficult than the hardware you have with you, it doesnt mean squat.

And you can have the latest and greatest high cap along, but if you cant make things work with it, same deal.

 

[JimCunn]

I carry a J as primary, not a BUG.
I do sometimes carry a semi as a BUG.
If I get attacked by three or more folks, I'm toast. I accept that.

 

[GEM]

That's not acceptable. You may lose but you will lose with that attitude. This is the kind of cliche we always see in this topic.

 

[TxUplander]

That's not acceptable. You may lose but you will lose with that attitude. This is the kind of cliche we always see in this topic.

All any of us revolver shooters could possibly hope for is that someone like you is close enough to save our A$$ if the SHTF! THANKFULLY, Its quite possible since there are so many like you around.

 

[Zeabed]

Would you guys make up your collective mind? I've switched between semi-auto and J frame several times since this thread began, to the rhythm of the points made in successive posts. I'm impressionable.

...just kidding. Trying to lighten things up a bit.

 

[Blue Jays]

"…Would you guys make up your collective mind?…"

My vote is you stick with that SWEET stainless steel P7 in your profile pic. Nice!

 

[Old Dog]

At this rate, this thread will be one of the first links to come up when people Google the term "circular conversation."

It's time to stick a fork in it; we're done -- we made 17 pages.

 

[Pudge]

That's not acceptable. You may lose but you will lose with that attitude. This is the kind of cliche we always see in this topic.

Two determined armed attackers of my skill could take me out every time. My only hope is that they aren't as skilled as me. It's a pretty narrow window for them to be unskilled enough for me to get them with a Sig P365, but not an S&W M60.

 

[Kleanbore]

Two determined armed attackers of my skill could take me out every time. My only hope is that they aren't as skilled as me. It's a pretty narrow window for them to be unskilled enough for me to get them with a Sig P365, but not an S&W M60.

Skill is one aspect of the question.

 

[Pudge]

Skill is one aspect of the question.

Yep. So is the firearm the attacker wields, but nobody seems to care about the capacity of their gun.

 

[.38 Special]

Would you guys make up your collective mind? I've switched between semi-auto and J frame several times since this thread began, to the rhythm of the points made in successive posts. I'm impressionable.

...just kidding. Trying to lighten things up a bit.

I've decided to carry both and make an on-the-spot decision.

 

[Pudge]

The problem with this discussion is that people tend to believe that disagreement stems from ignorance. That, and a conviction that a reluctance to switch hardware means that nothing has been learned. This is a discussion worth having. I've been charged by a bear in my front yard, had a bear in an out building and one inside my parents' garage and encountered two very small (cat sized) cubs while walking my dogs, and have had enough encounters with timber rattlers in my yard that I've built a tool to catch them. I shoot revolvers better than most auto loaders. Where and how I live, and who and what I encounter make a difference in my safety and impact my decisions regarding what I carry. But that doesn't mean that information that challenges the decisions I've made isn't worth considering. It doesn't make my decisions wrong, nor does it make my decisions right for others. I'm working with a compact semi, because of its advantages, but it hasn't grown on me and the advantages don't seem compelling for my situation. Doesn't mean my situation can't change, skills with a different platform aren't valuable, or that a less optimal platform can't work in a pinch (but that door certainly swings both ways).

I've enjoyed this thread, maybe learned a thing or two (maybe about guns, maybe about my skills, maybe about other members), and while I haven't changed my mind, it helps ever so slightly, to become more objective.

 

[Blue Jays]

Semi-automatic aficionado: "I like semi-automatics and only carry them."
Revolver aficionado: "That is totally cool by me. They are awesome. Rock on!"

Revolver aficionado: "I like revolvers and only carry them."
Semi-automatic aficionado: "WHAT? How will you handle 5 sequential attackers with endless perseverance?"

That seems to be the recurring vibe. I am puzzled with the drive to "correct" something that is just a preference.
Even more unexpected when revolver aficionados describe their similar affinity and love for semi-automatics.

 

[bearcreek]

Semi-automatic aficionado: "I like semi-automatics and only carry them."
Revolver aficionado: "That is totally cool by me. They are awesome. Rock on!"

Revolver aficionado: "I like revolvers and only carry them."
Semi-automatic aficionado: "WHAT? How will you handle 5 sequential attackers with endless perseverance?"

That seems to be the recurring vibe. I am puzzled with the drive to "correct" something that is just a preference.
Even more unexpected when revolver aficionados describe their similar affinity and love for semi-automatics.

Takes two to tango. This thread and countless others just like it wouldn't have page counts up into the high teens and 20's if both "sides" didn't feel strongly about the subject (for whatever reason).

 

[Blue Jays]

"…Takes two to tango..."

I will have to reread the pages to find a revolver aficionado earnestly trying to talk a semi-auto aficionado out of carrying one.

There are a handful of participants in this thread who genuinely see the benefits and ideal applications for both. I love both types of handgun and consider myself a huge proponent (and fan) of revolvers and semi-autos alike.

 

[JohnKSa]

I'm going to close this now and leave it closed for a couple of days to let everyone take a deep breath. If I get participants asking for it to be re-opened after a couple of days, I'll open it back up at that point.