Fire-Steel
Member
I am debating on using either a REAL bullet or an Improved Minnie in a Lyman Trade rifle this hunting season, Which one do you prefer and why?
.50caliber R.E.A.L. Or Improved Minnie, Which and why?
- Thread starter Fire-Steel
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I have only tried the 320 grn REAL in my Lyman Deerstalker (blued version with the PRB grooves). It was terrible all on it's own. It keyholed at 50 yds and was well left. But I placed a felt wad under the next two and they were near touching and just below the bull. This was using my standard 70 grns of 3F Triple 7 or Olde Eynsford powder that I use for PRB's.
I'm unsure of how well a Minie will stay put on the powder charge, which is why I have only tried the REAL. No way it can move.
I finally bought a mold and have casted up some. I use Gatofeo's #1 lube on them.
I'm unsure of how well a Minie will stay put on the powder charge, which is why I have only tried the REAL. No way it can move.
I finally bought a mold and have casted up some. I use Gatofeo's #1 lube on them.
Fire-Steel
Member
Over powder wad. Who knew. Thanks, this is what I have been wanting to know.
Noz
Member
Thompson Center's Maxi Ball always worked well for me.
Curator
Member
If your trade rifle has a 1 in 48" twist (as mine does), the 250 grain R.E.A.L. bullet will shoot quite accurately at higher velocities. The Modern Minie' is not the best choice for deep rifling or heavy loads. It is good for target shooting with the 1 in 48 twist but accuracy degrades quickly when you push it above about 1200 fps in my rifles. The modern minie' is also difficult to cast well with a high percentage of voids and imperfect base fill-out. Adding a little tin to the melt (and high temperature) helps with this but they need to be soft to have the hollow base seal the rifling.
If you go this route and require felt wads make sure that the punch is at least .520" in diameter so as to fill the grooves of your bore. Bigger is better from what I've been told by the retired machinist who has made my punches. Maybe .530-.540".
This fellow is on a traditional forum and makes custom sizes for just $10 + shipping. I have his email address if you wish to contact him. He makes other things as well (rod tips, short starters, and fiberglass range rods).
This fellow is on a traditional forum and makes custom sizes for just $10 + shipping. I have his email address if you wish to contact him. He makes other things as well (rod tips, short starters, and fiberglass range rods).
Loyalist Dave
Member
You have to shoot both, and see which is the most accurate, and if either are sufficiently accurate for hunting at the range you wish to be effective.
For example, I have a TC New Englander which loves TC Maxi-hunters, and patched round ball, but hates TC Maxi-balls. You'd think either conical from the company that produced the rifle barrel would work well.... but in testing my specific rifle...nope.
If you are shooting a .490, patched round ball well from your rifle, with a good load, as rodwha suggested... something like 70 grains or higher, the only thing you will get with shooting the heavier conical is a sore shoulder (imho) At 100 yards or less the 177 grain .490 will get the job done.
The patched, round ball isn't "just barely" getting the job done, and the conical isn't a "guarantee" of success purely because it's 40% heavier. The conical was invented for fast reloading for the military in combat. As late as 1867 the experts in big, dangerous game hunting were still using the patched, round ball.
LD
For example, I have a TC New Englander which loves TC Maxi-hunters, and patched round ball, but hates TC Maxi-balls. You'd think either conical from the company that produced the rifle barrel would work well.... but in testing my specific rifle...nope.
If you are shooting a .490, patched round ball well from your rifle, with a good load, as rodwha suggested... something like 70 grains or higher, the only thing you will get with shooting the heavier conical is a sore shoulder (imho) At 100 yards or less the 177 grain .490 will get the job done.
The patched, round ball isn't "just barely" getting the job done, and the conical isn't a "guarantee" of success purely because it's 40% heavier. The conical was invented for fast reloading for the military in combat. As late as 1867 the experts in big, dangerous game hunting were still using the patched, round ball.
LD
Part of the reason I tried those 320 grn REALs was to see just what the recoil would be like. I settled on the Lyman Deerstalker, in part, due to the recoil pad and the weight (7.5 lbs) thinking this would have some kick (compared to Traditions Deerhunter and the Pedersoli Country Hunter). I figured this load should have been something like a 45-70 Gov't with a 300 grn pill, but it was rather tame.
Having seen too much with a PRB typically giving passthroughs out past 100 yds or even nose to tail performance I don't doubt a ball. However I chose the .50 cal with the intentions of using a conical were I to get the chance for something such as elk where the .50 cal is considered by many to be a bit small and often used only within 50 yds.
The other reason one may want to use a conical is hunting beyond 100 yds, which is an aim of mine. I'd like a drop-in barrel for my Lyman topped with a Malcolm style scope for hunting fields and such. I wouldn't be comfortable shooting beyond 100 yds with a ball, especially if it were breezy.
Having seen too much with a PRB typically giving passthroughs out past 100 yds or even nose to tail performance I don't doubt a ball. However I chose the .50 cal with the intentions of using a conical were I to get the chance for something such as elk where the .50 cal is considered by many to be a bit small and often used only within 50 yds.
The other reason one may want to use a conical is hunting beyond 100 yds, which is an aim of mine. I'd like a drop-in barrel for my Lyman topped with a Malcolm style scope for hunting fields and such. I wouldn't be comfortable shooting beyond 100 yds with a ball, especially if it were breezy.
Smilin Jack
Member
PRB vs. Minnie ball
My Lyman 50cal Great Plains loves patched round ball with 70gr of Goex 3FFF. It shoots very well. The rifle has a RB barrel with a slow twist. People told me it would NOT shoot slugs.
I tried some Maxi-hunter in the light weight (275gr???) and they didn't target very well. They seemed to spiral toward the target. I tried a shot at 100yd, then 75yd, then 50yd and 25yd.
The shots hit around the target making it look like a corkscrew flight path.
I then tried some 350 Maxi-hunter slugs. They hit much better but not as well as the PRB. Never did try an over powder wad, but have punched some from card stock (backing cardboard from a writing tablet). Will try them soon.
My 58cal Navy Arms with Minnie (Lyman 577611 with greased grooves and base) likes a felt wad over the powder and another felt wad on top the slug. My thought was to keep the slug in position during the hunting day chasing elk. They shoot a nice group at 125yds if the barrel is cleaned between shots. If not cleaned, the second shot hits about 8" low. Hope it only takes one shot.
Elk season starts next week so getting excited.
Dave
My Lyman 50cal Great Plains loves patched round ball with 70gr of Goex 3FFF. It shoots very well. The rifle has a RB barrel with a slow twist. People told me it would NOT shoot slugs.
I tried some Maxi-hunter in the light weight (275gr???) and they didn't target very well. They seemed to spiral toward the target. I tried a shot at 100yd, then 75yd, then 50yd and 25yd.
The shots hit around the target making it look like a corkscrew flight path.
I then tried some 350 Maxi-hunter slugs. They hit much better but not as well as the PRB. Never did try an over powder wad, but have punched some from card stock (backing cardboard from a writing tablet). Will try them soon.
My 58cal Navy Arms with Minnie (Lyman 577611 with greased grooves and base) likes a felt wad over the powder and another felt wad on top the slug. My thought was to keep the slug in position during the hunting day chasing elk. They shoot a nice group at 125yds if the barrel is cleaned between shots. If not cleaned, the second shot hits about 8" low. Hope it only takes one shot.
Elk season starts next week so getting excited.
Dave
Loyalist Dave
Member
That is a valid point. The only real advantage that I've seen to the conicals over the PRB is that they can "up gun" a caliber by giving you more lead on impact. For example, when I went for moose, I went to a .50 caliber 350 grain Maxi-hunter. I have some conicals for my .40 that turn it from a .50 yard deer rifle to a 100 yard rifle (imho).
LD
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