hornadylnl
Member
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2006
- Messages
- 375
Just got 3 boxes of stuff for my lnl ap today. Case feeder, case plates, dies, bullets, etc. Can't wait to set it up and use it.
550b or LNL AP
- Thread starter Mtdew
- Start date
- Status
Well... I just ordered a LNL as well.. Seemed like a great deal compared to the Dillon 650. We'll see.
I need to find some Hornady dies, I guess the taper crime dies from other die kits won't fit without mods. For now I'll just do the seat/crimp with my RCBS dies.
I need to find some Hornady dies, I guess the taper crime dies from other die kits won't fit without mods. For now I'll just do the seat/crimp with my RCBS dies.
DaveInFloweryBranchGA
Member
Mtdew,
With the insert, then rotate to twist and lock, only one side of the die needs to be removed and not lots of it. I'd suggest putting the die in a LnL bushing, moving the ejection wire out of the way, setting up the die. Next, lower the die and mark with a marker where you need to machine off the die. Once that's done, remove the die and simple mill (I'm guessing you may have a mill as well.) or grind enough enough material on the one side to clear the die. That's what I did. That way, you've removed enough material to clear with less weakening of the overall strength of the die.
Regards,
Dave
With the insert, then rotate to twist and lock, only one side of the die needs to be removed and not lots of it. I'd suggest putting the die in a LnL bushing, moving the ejection wire out of the way, setting up the die. Next, lower the die and mark with a marker where you need to machine off the die. Once that's done, remove the die and simple mill (I'm guessing you may have a mill as well.) or grind enough enough material on the one side to clear the die. That's what I did. That way, you've removed enough material to clear with less weakening of the overall strength of the die.
Regards,
Dave
Interesting thread. I was considering a Dillon 550B to finish out my '06 reloading budget. Bought a Giraud case trimmer instead. Excellent machine, BTW.
One thing I considered as an add-on to the Dillon powder dispenser was a micrometer operated adjustment- comes in small (pistol) and large (for rifle). Each was 49 bucks. Seemed like a good option. Sent the link to my home email, but it was easy to find on the web.
I reload on a Forster Coax. Just don't have a good space for a permanently mounted reloading press. Tonight I'll take my Workmate in from the garage and set it up in a spare bedroom and seat .223 bullets while I drop the powder with a PACT. Gotta be cleared out before #1 Daughter comes home for Christmas! I can also take the Forster in the den and bolt it to a heavy box-like affair I knocked together. Size brass while I watch-listen to a college game. I really envy you guys with a dry basement, spare dedicated room, for reloading. One of these days.
One thing I considered as an add-on to the Dillon powder dispenser was a micrometer operated adjustment- comes in small (pistol) and large (for rifle). Each was 49 bucks. Seemed like a good option. Sent the link to my home email, but it was easy to find on the web.
I reload on a Forster Coax. Just don't have a good space for a permanently mounted reloading press. Tonight I'll take my Workmate in from the garage and set it up in a spare bedroom and seat .223 bullets while I drop the powder with a PACT. Gotta be cleared out before #1 Daughter comes home for Christmas! I can also take the Forster in the den and bolt it to a heavy box-like affair I knocked together. Size brass while I watch-listen to a college game. I really envy you guys with a dry basement, spare dedicated room, for reloading. One of these days.
dmftoy1
Member
Just curious . .why can't you use your existing taper crimp dies in the LNL? Is it particular about any other dies as well?
dmftoy1
Member
Oh, one other question! 
Can someone explain why you don't need a powder measure per caliber? Do you just swap in a different insert in the powder measure that's set for the caliber or ?? Also, does the Hornady LNL do the belling of the case mouth in the same station as the powder dispenser? If so, do you have to maintain different powder dies then or ? (and swap the measure from one powder die to another when you change calibers)
I hope these questions make sense. (I'm coming at it from a RL550B user who's lusting after a 650 but hasn't pulled the trigger yet)
Regards,
Dave
Can someone explain why you don't need a powder measure per caliber? Do you just swap in a different insert in the powder measure that's set for the caliber or ?? Also, does the Hornady LNL do the belling of the case mouth in the same station as the powder dispenser? If so, do you have to maintain different powder dies then or ? (and swap the measure from one powder die to another when you change calibers)
I hope these questions make sense. (I'm coming at it from a RL550B user who's lusting after a 650 but hasn't pulled the trigger yet)
Regards,
Dave
One of the known issues with the LNL-AP is the 5th die station is partially blocked by the ejector wire requiring the use of short crimp dies (specifically those made by hornady) or modified crimp dies. Hornady makes good dies so it wasn't a big deal to use them. Hornady states in the operator manual that only hornady crimp dies (made specially short for the AP) should be used, but they don't say why.
The reason this is an issue is due to the shellplate movement and press design. It only rotates half a step going up and half a step going down. That half step doesn't leave much clearance between the case in station #5 and the ejector wire (it also affects ejection reliability, but that's another subject). I have read, but not seen, that older hornady progressive presses had a mechanism where the ejector wire would pivot out of the way as the ram was raised. That must not have worked too well since they stopped. A dillon 650 uses the same type of ejector wire setup, but the shellplate on it does a full step as the ram is lowered (instead of 1/2 up, 1/2 down) so the ejector wire and crimp die don't fight for the same space. It also allows a better angle on the wire for smoother ejection.
It is my hunch that the ejector wire design is one of the major customer service complaints about the design. You barely have to mention the word "ejector wire" on the phone with hornady and they start agreeing to send a replacement.
Like dillon, you can readjust the powder insert (bar) for each caliber, buy seperate inserts (bars) for each caliber or buy a micrometer adjustable insert ($25 each) for all pistol loading and another for all rifle loading. With the cost of the measure and seperate activation linkage (CAPD), it is not practical, or needed, to buy a seperate powder measure for each caliber. The powder measure and linkage combo would probably cost at least $100 vs. $60 for a dillon measure and the dillon measure comes with rifle and pistol powder bars. The LNL-AP only comes with a basic rifle insert (the (optional?) pistol drum and insert are another $25).
The newest LNL-AP use the same type powder funnels as dillon and allows belling and powder drop in the same station (like dillon has always done); about $8 for each caliber. Before the lastest revision, a generic powder activator was used to drop powder when loading, but belling was done in a seperate die station. So until very recently, a 4-station 550 and 5-station LNL-AP effectively did the same thing and neither could use a powder check die and still seat and crimp in seperate stations.
I had a 550 for 7 years and sold it to buy the LNL-AP to get the fifth die station. For rifle loading, the 5th die station allows a powder check die and makes the LNL-AP worthwhile. For pistol ammo, the LNL-AP works (and I have a case feeder) but I'd rather have my 550 back. The dillon powder measure is smoother and much less trouble in my experience. The 550 powder and priming is up front where I could see what was going on. The LNL-AP has the priming in the back and it absolutely does not tolerate spilled powder or debris in the priming area. There is nowhere for debris to go except to block movement of the primer arm. Keep a can of air handy to clean it in case of a spill. If you miss a primer then dump powder, it's cleanup time. You'll want some way to monitor the primer stack. There is no warning buzzer although a thin dowel rod works OK.
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You definitely want to invest in a low primer alarm, either a RCBS or Dillon they are the same one is blue and one is green. Like 1911 said you don't want to run out of primers and even with a dowel in the tube to visually monitor you can still forget and run out. I also don't like the Hornady powder measure or CAPD because of the inconsistency between loads, I replaced mine with a RCBS Uniflow measure w/ powder baffle and RCBS linkage. I check my powder measure about every 25 rounds and it is always within +/- .1 gr on flake powders. The Dillon powder measure is finicky to setup and can leak on ball powder but it is rock solid and doesn't fluctuate with the volume in the reservoir.
DaveInFloweryBranchGA
Member
dmftoy1,
"Just curious . .why can't you use your existing taper crimp dies in the LNL?"
You can, Lee has just been short and fat. But it's not been a problem to modify the die for me. I've not had problems with other dies.
Those that can't/won't/don't modify the presses/dies generally aren't used to working with machinery and aren't comfortable doing so. I"ve worked for years in manufacturing and find reloading machines not much different than equipment I've worked with in manufacturing, except it's human operated instead of electrically operated.
"Is it particular about any other dies as well?"
NO, this press is NOT particular about dies. The Lee FCD in station 5 is the only known "die issue" and it's because Lee dies are fat at the base and doesn't clear the ejector wire. The problem and it's fix are well documented. And this is only in station 5. You won't see the problem if you either seat the bullet and crimp with one die or if you don't use a powder cop type die, because you won't have a die in station 5. That said, I've always had a die in station 5 and have never had a problem getting it to work with minor effort on my part.
"Can someone explain why you don't need a powder measure per caliber?"
Because the measure is so easy to adjust, you can change calibers and have it setup in a few seconds,
"Do you just swap in a different insert in the powder measure that's set for the caliber or ??"
Depends on the setup you have. Generally, you swap out either the micrometer insert for one that's appropriate to the powder and quantity you're using. (pistol or rifle). Or buy large and small powder drums. Best is to get the rifle and pistol micrometer inserts, as they're cheaper. I think Midway quit carrying them because they can sell the drums and make more profit, but Hornady still makes them, just call their technical support line and get the number. As far as the measure goes overall, it's very similar in operation to a an RCBS uniflow, which is very easy to setup and change powders. Since you don't have to pull the powder measure out when you're changing a die set, you just push a button on the powder measure to swap out the micrometer insert or the cylinder from large to small. Quick and easy to do.
BTW, in case you have lots of money to spend on reloading and are a little lazy or crazy, you can use Dillon measure on the Hornady simply by converting it back to the original design. (Call Brian Enos and ask how to do this, involves swapping a couple minor parts, which he has in stock.) There's no concern about double charging because the Lock N Load is automatic advance and isn't easy to reverse on, unless you allow cases to cycle through the press twice (which means you've removed the ejector wire or reinserted a charged case after removing it), not a good practice and no mechanism can stop a double charge from happening in this situation.
"Also, does the Hornady LNL do the belling of the case mouth in the same station as the powder dispenser?"
Yes, they're latest powder measure offers this option. You'll need to buy the bushings, which Midway sells for about 8 bucks per size last I checked. Clean the measure thoroughly and adjust it properly, it'll run smoothly.
"If so, do you have to maintain different powder dies then or ? (and swap the measure from one powder die to another when you change calibers)"
You have that option, they sell the bases pretty cheap. So for example, to have three calibers (.38, .45ACP and .44magnum) you'd need to buy about 30 to 40 dollars worth of bases. A base is the bottom half of the "powder measure die" and would be mounted in a Lock N Load bushing, so once you've initially you remove the spring, rotate and lift out the base, insert a new base, rotate and click to lock in, put your belling bushing in, put your powder measure on the new base, attach the spring, set the powder and away you go. It's quick and a fairly painless process once the bases are adjusted properly during initial setup. Kinda like the way you setup dies in the LnL bushing and then don't have to adjust them again.
"I hope these questions make sense. (I'm coming at it from a RL550B user who's lusting after a 650 but hasn't pulled the trigger yet)"
As an ex 550 user, I've found most switchover owners are much happier with the LnL than the 550. The exception being when they're not at all mechanically inclined. In that instance, those folks tend to have problems with getting the LnL setup to run smoothly. So if you're not mechanically inclined, my suggestion is to stick with the simpler 550. If you're slightly mechanically inclined and have patience, the LnL will reward you pretty quickly by having minimal adjustment thereafter. If you're highly mechanically inclined, you'll wonder how the heck anybody couldn't setup a LnL, as it's pretty darn simple to setup.
I hope this answers your questions,
Dave
"Just curious . .why can't you use your existing taper crimp dies in the LNL?"
You can, Lee has just been short and fat. But it's not been a problem to modify the die for me. I've not had problems with other dies.
Those that can't/won't/don't modify the presses/dies generally aren't used to working with machinery and aren't comfortable doing so. I"ve worked for years in manufacturing and find reloading machines not much different than equipment I've worked with in manufacturing, except it's human operated instead of electrically operated.
"Is it particular about any other dies as well?"
NO, this press is NOT particular about dies. The Lee FCD in station 5 is the only known "die issue" and it's because Lee dies are fat at the base and doesn't clear the ejector wire. The problem and it's fix are well documented. And this is only in station 5. You won't see the problem if you either seat the bullet and crimp with one die or if you don't use a powder cop type die, because you won't have a die in station 5. That said, I've always had a die in station 5 and have never had a problem getting it to work with minor effort on my part.
"Can someone explain why you don't need a powder measure per caliber?"
Because the measure is so easy to adjust, you can change calibers and have it setup in a few seconds,
"Do you just swap in a different insert in the powder measure that's set for the caliber or ??"
Depends on the setup you have. Generally, you swap out either the micrometer insert for one that's appropriate to the powder and quantity you're using. (pistol or rifle). Or buy large and small powder drums. Best is to get the rifle and pistol micrometer inserts, as they're cheaper. I think Midway quit carrying them because they can sell the drums and make more profit, but Hornady still makes them, just call their technical support line and get the number. As far as the measure goes overall, it's very similar in operation to a an RCBS uniflow, which is very easy to setup and change powders. Since you don't have to pull the powder measure out when you're changing a die set, you just push a button on the powder measure to swap out the micrometer insert or the cylinder from large to small. Quick and easy to do.
BTW, in case you have lots of money to spend on reloading and are a little lazy or crazy, you can use Dillon measure on the Hornady simply by converting it back to the original design. (Call Brian Enos and ask how to do this, involves swapping a couple minor parts, which he has in stock.) There's no concern about double charging because the Lock N Load is automatic advance and isn't easy to reverse on, unless you allow cases to cycle through the press twice (which means you've removed the ejector wire or reinserted a charged case after removing it), not a good practice and no mechanism can stop a double charge from happening in this situation.
"Also, does the Hornady LNL do the belling of the case mouth in the same station as the powder dispenser?"
Yes, they're latest powder measure offers this option. You'll need to buy the bushings, which Midway sells for about 8 bucks per size last I checked. Clean the measure thoroughly and adjust it properly, it'll run smoothly.
"If so, do you have to maintain different powder dies then or ? (and swap the measure from one powder die to another when you change calibers)"
You have that option, they sell the bases pretty cheap. So for example, to have three calibers (.38, .45ACP and .44magnum) you'd need to buy about 30 to 40 dollars worth of bases. A base is the bottom half of the "powder measure die" and would be mounted in a Lock N Load bushing, so once you've initially you remove the spring, rotate and lift out the base, insert a new base, rotate and click to lock in, put your belling bushing in, put your powder measure on the new base, attach the spring, set the powder and away you go. It's quick and a fairly painless process once the bases are adjusted properly during initial setup. Kinda like the way you setup dies in the LnL bushing and then don't have to adjust them again.
"I hope these questions make sense. (I'm coming at it from a RL550B user who's lusting after a 650 but hasn't pulled the trigger yet)"
As an ex 550 user, I've found most switchover owners are much happier with the LnL than the 550. The exception being when they're not at all mechanically inclined. In that instance, those folks tend to have problems with getting the LnL setup to run smoothly. So if you're not mechanically inclined, my suggestion is to stick with the simpler 550. If you're slightly mechanically inclined and have patience, the LnL will reward you pretty quickly by having minimal adjustment thereafter. If you're highly mechanically inclined, you'll wonder how the heck anybody couldn't setup a LnL, as it's pretty darn simple to setup.
I hope this answers your questions,
Dave
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dmftoy1
Member
Thanks! That definately helped. The reason I was asking was that I wanted to get my head around whether I'd always have a free spot for a powder cop when doing pistol cases. (with separate seat/crimp stations). My primary reason for wanting to upgrade (aside from auto-indexing) is to have the ability to run a powder cop. (just as a safety feature) So from reading your reply (for pistol calibers) it sounds like I can set it up just like the dillon in that I have one station do a resize/deprime/prime, one station doing expansion and powder drop, a powder cop in the third, a seating station for the fourth and a crimp in the fifth.
Have a good one,
Dave
Have a good one,
Dave
Shoney
Member
DaveInFloweryBranchGA gives excellent advice. I would like to clarify 2 points though.
I have the LNL and the 550. On the LNL I do not have the powder thru die, but will soon get it. I also have the powder cop. When loading jacketed bullets, the 5 stations are full and there is no problem without the powder thru setup. However, when loading lead or plated lead, I seat and crimp in separate operations; and therefore need to either remove the powder cop, or do final crimp in a second run thru (crimp only).
I had problems with my powder measure when I first got it, like a couple of other posts said. I called Hornady and their first question solved my problem. Did you clean all the rust preventative out of the measure as the instructions state? DUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHH!!!!! Read the instructions???????? :banghead:
I have the LNL and the 550. On the LNL I do not have the powder thru die, but will soon get it. I also have the powder cop. When loading jacketed bullets, the 5 stations are full and there is no problem without the powder thru setup. However, when loading lead or plated lead, I seat and crimp in separate operations; and therefore need to either remove the powder cop, or do final crimp in a second run thru (crimp only).
I had problems with my powder measure when I first got it, like a couple of other posts said. I called Hornady and their first question solved my problem. Did you clean all the rust preventative out of the measure as the instructions state? DUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHH!!!!! Read the instructions???????? :banghead:
Plastic Cowboy
Member
Shoney- since you have both how does your 550 compare to the Hornady LnL??
Those are the two presses I'm trying to decide between. Right now I'm leaning more towards the LnL.
-thanks
Those are the two presses I'm trying to decide between. Right now I'm leaning more towards the LnL.
-thanks
Shoney
Member
Plastic Cowboy
I got the 550 at an estate sale for $75, along with assorted bullets, primers and powders (it was unadvertised, they didn’t have a clue, and I was there very early). It was then and now is dedicated to 38/357. I load 6 other pistol cartridges and 2 rifle cartridges on the LNL. I like the 550, but when I started looking into changeovers for other cartridges, I was shocked at the obscene prices. Ignoring shell plate costs, to make them truly quick, the 550 required a different powder measure for each change, cost being $80 for only the tool head and measure X 8 = $640 (current price). Uffffffdah.
Shopping around I ran into the Hornady LNL progressive, and when shown the quick changeover bushings, it took all of 2 seconds for the lights to go on. Changeover for the LNLis $3.30 per bushing, with a total of $66 (current costs).
I prefer the LNL over the 550 for the following reasons: 5 station vs. 4 station; quick change system is much faster and more versatile; case activated powder measure doesn’t leak ball powder, is more accurate with some powders and is easier to adjust.
I got the 550 at an estate sale for $75, along with assorted bullets, primers and powders (it was unadvertised, they didn’t have a clue, and I was there very early). It was then and now is dedicated to 38/357. I load 6 other pistol cartridges and 2 rifle cartridges on the LNL. I like the 550, but when I started looking into changeovers for other cartridges, I was shocked at the obscene prices. Ignoring shell plate costs, to make them truly quick, the 550 required a different powder measure for each change, cost being $80 for only the tool head and measure X 8 = $640 (current price). Uffffffdah.
Shopping around I ran into the Hornady LNL progressive, and when shown the quick changeover bushings, it took all of 2 seconds for the lights to go on. Changeover for the LNLis $3.30 per bushing, with a total of $66 (current costs).
I prefer the LNL over the 550 for the following reasons: 5 station vs. 4 station; quick change system is much faster and more versatile; case activated powder measure doesn’t leak ball powder, is more accurate with some powders and is easier to adjust.
dmftoy1
Member
Ok, so just eyeballing "powder through expanders" at Midway and on Hornady's site and it doesn't appear that they have a .458 expander so I'm out of luck if I want to load 45/70 on the LNL press? (assuming I want a powder cop and separate crimp and seating stations)
Regards,
Dave
Regards,
Dave
If you started with sized/deprimed 45/70 brass, you could set it up this way.
1. expander die
1a. priming (on downstroke, remember LNL-AP does half steps on the shellplate)
2. powder drop
3. powder check
4. bullet seat die
5. crimp die (keep it short or remove the ejector wire)
Call Hornady, they might be willing to make a custom size expander for not too much money. Or find someone with a small metal lathe; it shouldn't be that hard to make.
For a roll crimp, I'd be tempted to seat and crimp in the same station. Taper crimping is where I really want seperate seat and crimp operations.
1. expander die
1a. priming (on downstroke, remember LNL-AP does half steps on the shellplate)
2. powder drop
3. powder check
4. bullet seat die
5. crimp die (keep it short or remove the ejector wire)
Call Hornady, they might be willing to make a custom size expander for not too much money. Or find someone with a small metal lathe; it shouldn't be that hard to make.
For a roll crimp, I'd be tempted to seat and crimp in the same station. Taper crimping is where I really want seperate seat and crimp operations.
TooTaxed
Member
Excellent clincher for buying a Hornady instead of the Dillon:
Graf & Sons has the Lock-N-Load progressive on sale for $316...plus 1000 free bullets (they say up to $285 value) and a free dust cover!
Graf & Sons has the Lock-N-Load progressive on sale for $316...plus 1000 free bullets (they say up to $285 value) and a free dust cover!
DaveInFloweryBranchGA
Member
Hornady should have it or it'd be cheap to have custom made
dmftoy1,
"Ok, so just eyeballing "powder through expanders" at Midway and on Hornady's site and it doesn't appear that they have a .458 expander so I'm out of luck if I want to load 45/70 on the LNL press? (assuming I want a powder cop and separate crimp and seating stations)"
Before I assumed the size you need, I would call Hornady and ask if they manufacture that size. Midway often does not stock 100% of a company's products. An example would be the micrometer adjustment stems for the Hornady powder measures. Other companies do or you can buy it straight from Hornady.
If Hornady doesn't have one, they eventually will as they expand the product line. This product is pretty new, so they probably need to develop/expand their caliber offerings, which is typical of such things.
If you need one now, it's a simple steel bushing basically and you could have any competent machinist make you one simply by telling him you need one with "these dimensions." There's a couple fellas over on the castboolits forums that are mighty fine custom machinists and quite affordable. I know of one guy that makes custom dies for the various bullet sizer lubricators out there. His charge for a custom is only $22.00 for the part delivered to your door. Shouldn't be any more for a single custom bushing. Just send him one for an example of it's "angles" and tell him what caliber/diameter you need it in and what it's for. He's a shooter reloader and I believe he owns a .45/70 rifle or two, so he'll know what you want.
dmftoy1,
"Ok, so just eyeballing "powder through expanders" at Midway and on Hornady's site and it doesn't appear that they have a .458 expander so I'm out of luck if I want to load 45/70 on the LNL press? (assuming I want a powder cop and separate crimp and seating stations)"
Before I assumed the size you need, I would call Hornady and ask if they manufacture that size. Midway often does not stock 100% of a company's products. An example would be the micrometer adjustment stems for the Hornady powder measures. Other companies do or you can buy it straight from Hornady.
If Hornady doesn't have one, they eventually will as they expand the product line. This product is pretty new, so they probably need to develop/expand their caliber offerings, which is typical of such things.
If you need one now, it's a simple steel bushing basically and you could have any competent machinist make you one simply by telling him you need one with "these dimensions." There's a couple fellas over on the castboolits forums that are mighty fine custom machinists and quite affordable. I know of one guy that makes custom dies for the various bullet sizer lubricators out there. His charge for a custom is only $22.00 for the part delivered to your door. Shouldn't be any more for a single custom bushing. Just send him one for an example of it's "angles" and tell him what caliber/diameter you need it in and what it's for. He's a shooter reloader and I believe he owns a .45/70 rifle or two, so he'll know what you want.
DaveInFloweryBranchGA
Member
RA407,
"I am thinking about getting the Dillion 650 before the price increase. What is the major difference between the 650 and the LNL besides the price?"
I'll try to list a point by point comparison:
1. The 650 and LnL have about the same casefeeder, with about all the same flaws, hitches and imperfections. Not much difference here.
2. The LnL is significantly faster to changeover calibers on. All you have to change is the dies.
3. Because of the Lock N Load bushings allowing you to change one die at a time, you can swap out a single die (such as a neck die for a full size die or a die set up for Semi wadcutters in place of a die setup for round nose bullets) without changing the rest of the setup.
4. The Hornady measure is very easy and extremely fast to setup, and because you don't have to remove the powder measure when you remove your dies, you don't need to buy a powder measure for every caliber you own. Once you've gotten the powder and powder die (really just a die base) set up for a single caliber, you record the micrometer setting on the powder adjustment in your reloading manual for that bullet/caliber and it takes mere seconds the next time you do it. So in a caliber change, you just swap out the die base (if you need to, many times you don't) for the powder measure, then set the powder and you're done. Takes maybe 2 minutes if you're very slow. I know, because I am slow.
5. The Hornady tends to be cleaner than the Dillon, because spent primers are feed away from the press down a tube.
6. The Hornady powder measure doesn't leak ball powders, nor does it have a problem with extruded rifle powders. Just make sure you clean it properly to get the storage coating off and adjust it properly initially and you'll have no problems.
7. The Dillon has a few whizbang accessories, such as the strong mount and the roller handle. I made my own strong mount out of oak (took me thirty minutes) and you can adapt most Dillon accessories to a Hornady if you so choose. That goes both ways. A Hornady measure will fit on a Dillon as well.
8. Speedwise, they're about a tie.
9. Smoothness of operation, I can't tell a difference, some say the Hornady is smoother, some say the Dillon is. I reload on my buddy's 650 and he reloads on my LnL. Both machines are perfectly setup and neither of us can tell a difference.
10. Caliber changeovers on the Dillon generally involve buying more "stuff." I can't list exactly what, because it varies, depending on what you have already.
11. Priming systems are about a tie. They, like the casefeeders, are very similar with all the same issues. Again, if you adjust them properly, they both work well. You can enhance either with a vibra prime or Dillon primer loader and a Dillon low primer warning system. The Hornady is a bit more work, because you have to adapt it, but it isn't a hard thing to do. I don't have the Dillon primer warning on my Hornady, but will probably get it. When I do, I'll have a machinist make me an adaptor out of a durable plastic.
12. Warranty service is about a draw.
13. Hornady appears to be actively involved in improving their product offering and has been for the past 6 years or so. Dillon's product line is about the same as it was ten years ago, with only minor offerings, such as adapting the casefeeder for the 550. The Dillon line is more mature, but it's also resting on it's laurels and could be improved. Dillon was once the reloading industry technological leader and innovator. They no longer are. Hornady appears to be taking that advantage away from them by offering products that do the same thing, but do it just a little more efficiently.
Should be interesting to see how Dillon reacts to this over time if Hornady continues to make inroads into new sales. Gotta love the American capitalist system. Competition is a wonderful thing.
Regards,
Dave
"I am thinking about getting the Dillion 650 before the price increase. What is the major difference between the 650 and the LNL besides the price?"
I'll try to list a point by point comparison:
1. The 650 and LnL have about the same casefeeder, with about all the same flaws, hitches and imperfections. Not much difference here.
2. The LnL is significantly faster to changeover calibers on. All you have to change is the dies.
3. Because of the Lock N Load bushings allowing you to change one die at a time, you can swap out a single die (such as a neck die for a full size die or a die set up for Semi wadcutters in place of a die setup for round nose bullets) without changing the rest of the setup.
4. The Hornady measure is very easy and extremely fast to setup, and because you don't have to remove the powder measure when you remove your dies, you don't need to buy a powder measure for every caliber you own. Once you've gotten the powder and powder die (really just a die base) set up for a single caliber, you record the micrometer setting on the powder adjustment in your reloading manual for that bullet/caliber and it takes mere seconds the next time you do it. So in a caliber change, you just swap out the die base (if you need to, many times you don't) for the powder measure, then set the powder and you're done. Takes maybe 2 minutes if you're very slow. I know, because I am slow.
5. The Hornady tends to be cleaner than the Dillon, because spent primers are feed away from the press down a tube.
6. The Hornady powder measure doesn't leak ball powders, nor does it have a problem with extruded rifle powders. Just make sure you clean it properly to get the storage coating off and adjust it properly initially and you'll have no problems.
7. The Dillon has a few whizbang accessories, such as the strong mount and the roller handle. I made my own strong mount out of oak (took me thirty minutes) and you can adapt most Dillon accessories to a Hornady if you so choose. That goes both ways. A Hornady measure will fit on a Dillon as well.
8. Speedwise, they're about a tie.
9. Smoothness of operation, I can't tell a difference, some say the Hornady is smoother, some say the Dillon is. I reload on my buddy's 650 and he reloads on my LnL. Both machines are perfectly setup and neither of us can tell a difference.
10. Caliber changeovers on the Dillon generally involve buying more "stuff." I can't list exactly what, because it varies, depending on what you have already.
11. Priming systems are about a tie. They, like the casefeeders, are very similar with all the same issues. Again, if you adjust them properly, they both work well. You can enhance either with a vibra prime or Dillon primer loader and a Dillon low primer warning system. The Hornady is a bit more work, because you have to adapt it, but it isn't a hard thing to do. I don't have the Dillon primer warning on my Hornady, but will probably get it. When I do, I'll have a machinist make me an adaptor out of a durable plastic.
12. Warranty service is about a draw.
13. Hornady appears to be actively involved in improving their product offering and has been for the past 6 years or so. Dillon's product line is about the same as it was ten years ago, with only minor offerings, such as adapting the casefeeder for the 550. The Dillon line is more mature, but it's also resting on it's laurels and could be improved. Dillon was once the reloading industry technological leader and innovator. They no longer are. Hornady appears to be taking that advantage away from them by offering products that do the same thing, but do it just a little more efficiently.
Should be interesting to see how Dillon reacts to this over time if Hornady continues to make inroads into new sales. Gotta love the American capitalist system. Competition is a wonderful thing.
Regards,
Dave
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