(7.62x39) vs. 6.8mm SPC. Which for a Personal Defense Weapon?

[ShootStraight]

I plan on buying an assault rifle but I need some clarification before I do so. I have been doing a lot of research on different calibers. Could the people on this forum please enlighten me? From my reading, it appears that the 5.56 cartridge is a cartridge used by many people. However, the military and countless others have begun to doubt the stopping power of the cartridge. In due course, the 6.8mm cartridge was created. The 6.8mm cartridge is hard to find but based on statistical research, it has shown to be very successful. Based on my research, the military (e.g. the Special Forces) desired this cartridge because they wanted a cartridge that had the stopping power of the 7.62x39 but did not have the size of the 7.62x39. That is, they wanted a cartridge that had great stopping power but was small enough to allow soldiers to carry more rounds in the field. Many soldiers love the 7.62x39. However, due to the size the 7.62x39, many cartridges can not be carried in the field. I have a question. The Russians use the 5.45 x39 cartridge. How does this cartridge measure up against the 5.56 and 6.8mm? Does it have more stopping power than the 6.8mm? I have been looking at several personal defense weapons. One in particular is the Robinson Arms XCR PDW.(http://www.robarm.com/Forthcoming_Products.htm) . The firearm would only be used in a “end of the world” scenario. I am considering buying this firearm in the 7.62x39. Do you think I should consider the 6.8mm over the 7.62x39?

 

[Big_E]

I used to believe that .223 was worthless. Now I think you would be perfectly fine to use it.

But, if you're set on 7.62x39 or 6.8 then,

Get the 7.62 if you do not reload as ammo is somewhat inexpensive right now.

6.8 SPC has superior ballistics but it is alot harder to find ammo and magazines are more expensive as well. So if you reload (which I think it is good to get into) then go ahead and grab the 6.8

Once you shoot the weapon I doubt you will have any remorse. 5.56 is illegal in some places to hunt deer with but you would be okay with the other calibers if you ever wanted to take the rifle deer hunting.
** You could also reload the 7.62 and get huge benefits than using cheap Russian or American ammo.

 

[C-grunt]

Any of the rounds would be a good self defense round. The 6.8 is nice and accurate but is harder to find and expensive. The 7.62x39 is cheap but can be hard to find high quality ammo to give you better downrange accuracy. The problem with these two rounds in an "end of the world scenario" is availability. Theres no stockpiles of either. If you went with 5.56 or 7.62x51 you would have millions upon millions of stockpiled military rounds all around the country.

Plus I really doubt most of the claims of the 5.56 not working well. Most of the stories are from a friend of a friend whose uncle is a spec ops sniper who shot a guy 7 times and he still killed most of the team. In my almost two years of combat experience, along with every other veteran I know, the 5.56 works pretty darn well.

I believe the somewhat complex design of our standard round, M855, can cause the bullets to behave different from one lot to the next. I have read that sometimes the green tip will yaw late, therefor not creating as big of a wound channel like it should. I have never experienced this but if you are worried about this you have a huge array of well made rounds to choose from in 5.56.

 

[Bigfoot]

I am considering buying this firearm in the 7.62x39. Do you think I should consider the 6.8mm over the 7.62x39?

I like all four cartridges that you asked about, no real favorites. The only advantage the 6.8 has over the 7.62x39 is longer range, at normal defensive ranges you would be hard pressed to tell the wound channels apart. I have gel test pics of the best 6.8 loads and the best 7.62x39 loads and the measurements of the channels are almost identical, neck length, max cavity and penetration. I'll post them if you like.

For defending yourself against rampaging blocks of gello at normal defensive ranges they are equal, and they both have great barrier defeating bullets.

For ammo availability the x39 wins.

For hunting or other LR work the 6.8 wins.

Accuracy depends on the platform. Even then, assume you have a sloppy AK-47, only until you get out to longer range would the difference matter. And then you will have to tell a jury why you shot a guy, even if he shot at you first, instead of leaving the area. I can't even think of a likely civilian scenario where some guy would shoot at me from over 50-100 yards away and I live in the country. Could happen I guess but I consider an AK or a Mini-30 to be plenty accurate enough.

The 5.45x39 is ballistically equal to the 5.56 however NATO uses better military bullets than the Rooskies. If they were handloaded with the same bullets you couldn't tell one from the other.

The difference between the 5.56, 6.8 and x39 in gello, one inch. The best 5.56 wound channels are around 4 1/2" across. The best 6.8 and 7.62x39 channels are 5 1/2" across. This means a fella with a 5.56 could do almost the same damage if he's a little better shot.

Bottom line of this long post, just pick whatever platform you like and practise.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

I load my own rounds for the X39 and you oughta see what the Hornady .310 123gr VMax does to a 5 gallon plastic bucket full of wet sawdust at 50 yds.
this is for my Mini30.

 

[Bigfoot]

Italian Garlic Supreme pizza from Round Table.

 

[Mp7]

Saiga.308

 

[PandaBearBG]

Every Marine I know (Including me) loves the 5.56 because of its wide availabilty and effectiveness, it creates massive internal wound channels, and bigger is not always better. You gotta stop gettting caught up in the false hype that 5.56 is not effective, most real world operators are too busy using it to stem the tide of arm chair internet gossip queens. Don't under estimate it, 7.62 is a great round too, though lacks the distance, but packs a punch. But I would choose that over a 6.8 because of availabilty and cost effectivness. I think you should try to rethink your parameters about buying this rifle though. It's an amazing looking rifle, but it is an assault rifle, not a defensive weapon. I know you may use it as such but you can use anything as a "defensive" weapon. Using a rifle round as a defensive weapon, you would have to have the intruder in very very close range if it was to stand up in court, using it as a last and final defense.
Besides 5.56, 7.62, 6.8 those would just fly thru a man at that close of a distance and probably thru the wall and now you have to think about your family, neighbors, etc. A pistol or shotgun are the best home defense.
So seeing it as a rifle now, what do you want to use it for? what range? 300m is the average engagement range for most military firefights if thats what your looking for. 5.56 with irons can do 500-600m, 7.62 starts dropping around 400, 6.8 will really reach out and touch someone, if your looking the distance and long range accuracy, however it's not very popular in the military in terms of production and actual use solely b/c of the cost. (I don't hate it but they aren't really implementing it on a wide scale) It has become more of a specialty caliber for serious operators and maybe to only to a dedicated rifleman instead of an entire fire team.

 

[NotSoFast]

The one that is best is the one you like the most. For me, that is either a M1 Garand, or Swiss K31 in 7.5x55, both shooting a .308 bullet. I also have a semi-auto in .223. While it would be great for suppressive fire, imo, I wouldn't rely on it for PD unless it was all I had, but would reach for the larger caliber when I could.

 

[a-sheepdog]

I would opt for the 6.8spc . Ammo is not that hard to find and is ballistically superior to the 7.62x39. I actually have a 12.5" 6.8 upper as well as a 16" upper. I really like them both. If you opt for 6.8, make sure you get the spec II chamber.

 

[max popenker]

RE: ballistic superiority of the 6.8 over 7.62x39. While this is true, the thread author speaks about Personal Defense Weapon, which, in my humble opinion, is strictly a short to medium range role, where superior long range ballistics of 6.8 does not count, unlike potential stopping power / lethality (which grows with caliber).

the 7.62x39 will be also less expensive to practice, which is essential for effective PDW role as well.

Therefore, my vote would be for 7.62x39, in any weapon you like (AK-style, SKS, Ruger Mini-30)

 

[MCMXI]

Therefore, my vote would be for 7.62x39, in any weapon you like (AK-style, SKS, Ruger Mini-30)

... ,Vz.58 ...

 

[everallm]

Cheat,

Get the new XCR PDW, you can swap between 5.56, 7.62x39 and 6.8......

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

oh, no. cheeseburg medium with a dab of Heinz catsup atop on buttered toasted Kaiser bun with horseradish mustard, onions grilled nearly black and Claussen pickle.

 

[Walkalong]

I plan on buying an assault rifle

I plan on buying a scary looking, semi auto, assault rifle look a like. (There, fixed it for you )

Do you think I should consider the 6.8mm over the 7.62x39?

Not for hard times. 7.62 X 39 will be much more available than 6.8 SPC.

 

[mp5a3]

I would agree with above, unless you're shooting full auto, you simply have a sporting semi-auto. When need to quit using the gun grabbers definitions.

 

[ny32182]

If you are looking specifically at the XCR PDW (I am too! ) the mag situation has to play into it a little more. I'm still not happy with the C-prod mag situation; I've been intrigued by 6.8 anyway; I will hand load all of it... so I would likely go with 6.8, in no small part due to the much better mag situation. Plenty of people out there have a bunch of 30rd x39 Cprod mags that work fine... personally I want them to make a 20rd mag.

I'm probably going to opt for the 9" 5.56 first however. If I get the urge for a 6.8 after that, I will get the requisite parts.

The 7.5" is just too short for my taste. I'd go with a pistol cal AR upper in that case.

 

[RedLion]

Besides 5.56, 7.62, 6.8 those would just fly thru a man at that close of a distance and probably thru the wall and now you have to think about your family, neighbors, etc. A pistol or shotgun are the best home defense.

At the normal ranges inside or close to a house, a .223 is going to penetrate a lot less material that either a 9mm or 00 buckshot. 7.62 and 6.8 vary depending on what bullets you use.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

7.62x39

6.8ammo prices are insane, x39 gets the job done and you you get to practice much, much more

 

[Sheepdog1968]

If you are absolutely set on those two cartridges I'd go w 7.62x39 due to it being more common and inexpensive.

Having said that, I would reccomend a Springfield M1A over both of those. The 7.62x51 is far supperior and readily available as surplus.

 

[rbernie]

Either will do the job. I'd start by picking the platform, and then picking the chambering that suits it best.

AK ==> 7.62x39
AR ==> 6.8SPC

 

[cameron.personal]

I think it is hilarious how people think that 7.62x39 has better terminal performance than 5.56

Another errornet myth that just seems to do the rounds every few weeks. There are many rounds that have excellent terminal performance in the 5.56 caliber, and remember that as civilians for self defense we are not limited to the M855 62gr 5.56NATO penetrator rounds. Which generally does very well against bad guys. If you want something larger consider the 7.62x51 which you can also use rounds that have excellent terminal performance above and beyond the M80 NATO ball and M118 Long range loads.

The 6.8 SPC is another intermediate round that has great terminal performance and new loads are becoming more readily available. Look for the new rifles like the Remington ACR in this caliber...

Right now I would recommend the 5.56 for a general purpose carbine that would perform very well for self defense. You can buy cheap training ammo for 26c/round, and spend what you like on your self defense loads, that will perform better the 7.62x39 loads. Hornady TAP looks pretty good for that.

For something bigger I would look at a battle rifle in .308 (7.62x51) again ammo for blasting can be had for about 48c/round. Self defense ammo... anything it's a .308 for God's sake.

Cameron

 

[MCMXI]

I think it is hilarious how people think that 7.62x39 has better terminal performance than 5.56

If I could only have one or the other, it would definitely be the 5.56. A quick comparison between Black Hills 77gr SMK (.223) and Federal 124gr FMJ (7.62x39) is helpful. If you reload you could possibly use some .308 bullets with better BCs rather than the typical .310 offerings (see krochus) to improve the numbers at 300 yards +.

 

[RedLion]

well, on that chart the only useful distance listed for self defense is 0 yards. So i guess they are equal?

And as Cameron said, you're certainly not limited to military ammo, even in the 7.62x39. You can find all sorts of varmint, hp, sp, match, and what ever you can afford to practice with. 7.62x39 has a variety of factory ammo that is head and shoulders above the surplus stuff, making it quite effective especially considering cost of the practice ammo and the guns themselves

http://www.brassfetcher.com/762x39mm.html

 

[Texpatriate]

I have both 5.56 and 6.8. I like both, and got the 6.8 mainly for hunting, but I have no doubts about the usefulness of the 5.56 as a defensive round, particularly in close quarters. I decided against the 7.62x39 primarily because of better availability of hunting appropriate rounds in 6.8. Plus, I think running large amounts of cheap corrosive steal cased commie ammo through an direct impingement AR isn't the greatest idea in the world. The AR platform seems to me to run most reliably on quality brass cased ammo, but I'm open to correction.

The cost benefit analysis of the 7.62 Russian round is attractive though....