Are AK-type weapons (and 7.62X39) viable for LEO patrol?

[rock jock]

I don't think the AR vs. AK debate is as important as actually having a rifle. Do you carry one right now in your patrol car, and if no, why not?

 

[Commissar Gribb]

Why not just carry your 5.56 AR for most routine purposes, with a 7.62x39 upper, a bolt and a few loaded mags for those one or two instances over your career when you think it might be necessary? That way, you're still using a platform which you are already intimately familiar with, that the liberal public won't waste additional screams over, and that won't present as many problems with possible over-penetration for most, run-of-the-mill situations.

The extra upper, bolt, and mags could be carried in a case in the trunk of your cruiser, ready to be assembled, should the need arise, with just a few seconds of time spent. I would think that the larger round would most likely be needed in a situation where some armed individual was barricaded behind something which the 5.56 wouldn't penetrate. I'd also think that in such a situation, you'd have time to swap uppers, bolts, and mags.

Of course, I'm not a cop. My opinion is just that, my opinion.

because you're still using an AR platform that many people dislike. I personally think it's a neat design that when maintained correctly is very reliable. Some people think otherwise though.

Stupid primer problems from the 60s....

 

[m39fan]

I was surprised to hear that a fellow IN LEO carries an AK. When I mentioned I was considering carrying one due to budget constrants, several of the Academy instructors went nuts. According to them, most of the SWAT/ERT/etc. teams are trained to lock onto AK reports/mechanical noises/muzzle flashes and return fire. Having another officer shoot you during a mutual aid situation didn't sound like much fun so I ended up going with a Savage bolt gun in .308. (Several in the community then wanted to know why we needed a "sniper rifle"! ) Moral of the story? Ak's work fine for police work but using one could get you shot by your own team members!!!!!

Take Care,
Mike

 

[Steve in PA]

"According to them, most of the SWAT/ERT/etc. teams are trained to lock onto AK reports/mechanical noises/muzzle flashes and return fire. "

BS!!!!!

You don't "lock onto the report and return fire" without identifying that the person doing the shooting is indeed a threat.......sorry, doesn't happen. I'd like to see that written in their policies and procedures. No way would that fly.

 

[OEF_VET]

because you're still using an AR platform that many people dislike. I personally think it's a neat design that when maintained correctly is very reliable. Some people think otherwise though.

It doesn't seem that the original poster has a problem with the AR platform. He just seems to be concerned with the penetration capabilities of the 5.56 vs. the 7.62x39. He says he qualified expert with the M-16 in the Corps, so that leads me to believe he's VERY comfortable with it and knows how to use the rifle fairly effectively. I'd say the ability to switch uppers, based on the situations, would make the system more versatile for him. Much the same as having a dedicated .22 upper and bolt in a survival type kit would be useful, if you primarily carry an AR. If you need to pop a squirrel for sustainence, you put the .22 upper on, rather than wasting a more expensive bullet which will likely destroy your meal.

I'm not the biggest fan of the AR platform, but it is a versatile system that can be modified to suit the users current needs, with only a modicum of effort.

Frank

 

[Crosshair]

m39fan

That sounds like those guy's where grabbing for any reason so you wouldn't get an AK.

According to them, most of the SWAT/ERT/etc. teams are trained to lock onto AK reports/mechanical noises/muzzle flashes and return fire.

What happens if the BG has a hostage in one hand an the AK in the other and starts shooting? BANG, that SWAT member has now just killed a hostage.

What happens if the BG happens to have an AR. Is the SWAT member going to just ignore the bullets flyig his way "Cause it's an AR, it must be friendly" What about an SKS, they sound different too. There is no such thing as an "AK muzzle flash." Different muzzle attachments make different flashes. AK's do have a distinct sound, (So do the SKS, AR, FAL, M1, etc.) though it can vary quite a bit depending on make and any mods done to it. Basicly they where BSing you cause they hate the AK. Those LEO's need to learn to ALWAY'S ID YOU'RE TARGET. Never assume anything.

 

[OEF_VET]

tunk, you're right. A .22 conversion kit would be a much better option. Forget what I said earlier. My head was in the clouds because I just came back from picking up my new suppressor from my dealer. All I can think about is real quiet range time right now.

Frank

 

[artherd]

Given the replies here regarding the heavier 123gr round causing concern about overpenetration, how do the 5.45X39 and 5.56X45 stack up against each other? That Krebs is also available in 5.45--does the hive mind think that this would be a more suitable round for urban use where I have to account for my shots?

NOW you're thinking!

There's nothing wrong nessecearily with the AK platform, except for ergonomics, and that is your personal choice. I find the AR much quicker to employ.

However, the 7.62x39 round is a TERRIBLE choice for LE use! Even with soft point rounds, you are going to get tremendous over-penetration problems. Given that you are in CIVILIAN law enforcement, you MUST MUST MUST consider this. .223 is a very good civilian round, effective on the first guy it hits, and basically (hopefully) turns to sawdust inside him.

It also tends to fragment rapidly upon hitting typical building materials. Make no mistake, it is a HIGH powered rifle, so it will go through houses. Just less of 'em.

Take care out there!

 

[KaceCoyote]

I was under the impression the narrower profile of the .223 allowed better penetration?

 

[jobu07]

Yeah tunk, maybe he should keep an armored wheelbarrow in his trunk too?

 

[KaceCoyote]

Tunk ya ever seen the AKSU?

So what if it doesnt have modularity, its argueably the most reliable autoloading rifle to enter military service. it'll shoot as well as an AR in the same barrel lenght, with a similar level of ammunition. (No wolf bulk vs Winchester Black box)

Maybe your AK's safety is broken, assuming you have one but I can operate my safety with my index finger easily enough. I also dont need a .22LR because ammo is cheap enough for me to train with the real deal. I'd rather take an AK of some flavor, and if I needed a .22LR(whatever for?) I'd snag a papoose which breaks down and folds away quite well.

 

[Old NFO]

On a real world note- An acquaintenance, who was involved in GW One, had to use a .308 to bring down a BG after he had been shot 23 times with a .223 and got up and took off running. He said they counted 23 hits, with rounds stuck in the BG's vest, webbing and other places, along with multiple hits in the extremities... He said after the team came back, they dumped all the .223's for AK's and 12ga. I know there is a penetration issue, but there is ALSO an issue of actually stopping the BG- Witness the VA State guys, they fired "in excess" of 100 .223 rounds and only wounded the guy, plus sprayed the houses. So what's the trade off? 1 or 2 through and through's vs. 20-30 misses with a .223? Which would you choose?