870 Police Magnum selection ???

[Speed Racer]

Hi folks. I'm a frequent reader here, and a few months ago I asked for your help with a build up of my 870 Express Magnum. With your input (and a few generous Christmas gifts), that SG turned out great! I ended up added a Surefire frontend, Wilson 1-round mag extension, Speed Feed 13-inch LOP stock, and a 6-round sidesaddle. I'm still iffy on the sidesaddle, but the rest of the gun is perfect. This is my house/bedroom gun - a flashlight with a 12g attached, if you will. The barrel is the stock 18-incher with the lil bead sight.

I want to build another tactical 870, but this one I want to have good sights, a sling, and probably the standard forearm to start with - pretty basic. Also, I want to buy a Police Magnum for the advantages that are frequently discussed here. My problem is that the sight configurations that Remington offers are varied, and I'm not interested in sending a gun out for custom sites the day I get the thing. I just want to buy the gun, take it out of the box, and start pouring ammo through the thing until I'm used to it. So, is the Wilson/XS combo (#4937) the best? Or, are standard rifle sights what I'm looking for? Also, Remington offers tritium bead and rifle sights. What's a shotgunner to do with all these options out there?

Anyway, if any of you have recently bought one of these and can give me some feedback or your reasons for your purchase (sight specific), it would be appreciated. Plus, I figured you wouldn't mind discussing the 870 Police Magnum on another thread.

Thanks

 

[Speed Racer]

Okay, let me rephrase this question ...


If you were going to buy a brand new 870 Police Magnum, which configuration would you choose and why?

Thanks.

 

[9mmMike]

Although not a "Police Magnum", one of my 870's was a police trade-in and it is a magnum so I guess I might barely qualify to express and opinion here.
I like 20" barrels and rifle-sites. If you get one like that, you're ready to go and you could always buy some AO tritiums later. They are a snap to install and do not require you to send your gun away.
My favorite 870 configuration is:
870
20" rifle-sited barrel
+3 factory mag extension w/clamp
pretty (I mean handsome) wood furniture
sling studs, no sling unless I need it
side-saddle
hi-vis follower
That's it.
Mike

 

[proven]

i picked up my 870P a couple of months ago with standard bead 18" bbl and standard mag tube. i'll be keeping it this way for a while with the exception of a sidesaddle. i went with the bead because it seems more practical for my application (HD and fun). if i were shooting more slugs or longer ranges i might consider ghost rings (never liked rifle sights). i'd try and check them both out at a shop if you could and see which you like better (the sights that is).

 

[Dave McCracken]

If I were building another "Serious" 870, I'd start with a beater and work up by degrees. Since I can count the number of worn out 870s I know of on the fingers of my third hand, this is a safe and penurious approach.

But, you may prefer a new shotgun. ANY of the models will result in a superb weapon. Just pick the features you want in advance and get a model similar as possible.

And, the first thing you or anyone else should do is BA/UU/R. After a few cases through it, you'll have a better idea of what you and the mission requires. THEN, get the bellsnwhistles....

 

[Kestrel]

Speed,

The only two sight options I like on the Police models, are the bead and the Wilson/Track Lock ghost ring. I don't like the rifle sights as much on a defense shotgun. To me, they take longer to aquire.

If you go with the ghost ring, you can buy an XS front tritium replacment sight to go in the dovetail on the front base.

If you go with the bead, it's sufficient and you can always add Wilson/Track Lock sights later. (I like the Wilson front sight better than the Remington front sight that comes with the ghost ring, myself.)

(And showing my nostalgic side here, I love the looks of an 870 Police model with wood stocks and a plain bead sight... Looks like pure, simple business...)

Steve

 

[Speed Racer]

Thanks for the replies, gang.

Steve - I started another thread on this topic. But, have you installed the Wilson sights at home? This may well dictate which new 870P I purchase. I'm with you as far as liking the look of the Wilson sight. I will likely use my 870 Express, that I describe above, as a test run for sight installation. I'm just trying to get my ducks in a row. If the install is a piece of cake, I'll buy an 870P with the factory mag extension and bead sight. Or, I'll buy the Wilson sights version and install the Wilson front sight in place of the XS front. It sounds like the long way home, but that's what I want.

Thanks again.

 

[9mmMike]

I don't like the rifle sights as much on a defense shotgun. To me, they take longer to aquire.

If you are saying that ghost rings are quicker, I'd have to disagree. My AO (now XS) sites are way faster than any ghost ring (whatever happened to "peep") site that I've owned. For accuracy, I would say ghost ring but for speed, you really should try the AO Express sites.
Although a bead is likely still the fastest IMHO.

Feel free to disagree.

Mike

 

[Speed Racer]

Mike - I'm glad you are so positive about the rifle sights. One of the 870P models that I am leaning toward is the #4885 which features a factory 7-shot extension and rifle sights. Like you, I would replace the factory steel sights with the tritium XS units. I think that would be one nasty little blaster without adding a ton of stuff like my Express.

 

[Dave McCracken]

People vary as to what works best for them. Most folks do their fastest work with a bead. Then comes a peep with large aperture. Open sights come in third, though the difference isn't great if we just consider time. IMO, peep sights are the best compromise on a crisis management tool, then the bead. With good and frequent training, the difference in time between bead and peep can only be seen on a good stopwatch or timer. Open sights, even the Express styles, are a bit slower and less precise for most folks.

Get what you want, but a bead is hardly ever a bad choice.

 

[Speed Racer]

Dave - you've got a bead on your HD 870, right?

 

[Kestrel]

Speed,

I haven't installed the Wilson sights, myself. Mine were done by Wilson. It requires drilling and tapping the receiver for the rear sight base. If you get the Remington factory Wilson rear sight, the front sight is not a simple switch with the Wilson/Track Lock front sight. I think you would have to have the front base removed and the Tracklock front silver soldered to the barrel. Then you would have to have the barrel refinished.

If you get the bead sight, the Tracklock front sight fits over the bead ramp/base. It is then epoxied and pinned (hole drilled through the Tracklock base and through the bead base). It completely covers the bead base and is designed to fit over it.

Don't just epoxy the front Tracklock, without dilling and pinning it to the bead base. Also, don't let someone remove the front base and just epoxy the Tracklock to the barrel. It won't hold up to a lot of firing.

I have bead sights, ghost rings and rifle sights on various shotguns. I would feel very well armed with any of them, but I just don't care as much for the rifle sights. What Dave McC said is spot-on.

Steve

 

[Speed Racer]

Steve - thanks for all the info. That varifies what I've read elsewhere, regarding the installation must contain pinning, etc.


Meanwhile ... I'm hearing more about the Remington 870 P MAX. It's supposed to come from the factory with the Wilson/XS sights, 18" IC barrel, 2-rd mag extension, sling, Surefire front end, and a Speed Feed pistol grip/stock end.

I've contacted the Rem LE info via email this morning to get specifics. But, if anyone has any info on this SG, especially prices, please post here. Also, they are supposed to start shipping today. (And, no this isn't an April Fools joke.)

Thanks.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=16242&sid=2084e8b910223dd25efed31486109703

 

[444]

As I have mentioned several times before, I am no shotgun expert. Everything I know about defensive shotguns, I picked up in the last few months when I took a four day defensive shotgun class at Frontsight and a five day defensive shotgun class at Gunsite.
I got to try various shotguns and quickly developed preferences.
My own shotgun that I used in both courses has a factory Remington barrel with rifle sights. I personally want the ability to accurately shoot slugs, so I prefer some kind of sights other than a bead. At first I didn't like the factory rifle sights. They seemed to be harder to pick up and at one point in between the two classes the windage adjustment screw shot loose with about 50 slugs. But, after continuing to use them, I found that I actually liked them. Maybe if I would have spent more time with other sighting systems I would see the advantages, but I am pretty happy with the standard Remington rifle sights. Not that this is any kind of real definitive test, but during the man on man shoot-off at the end of the Gunsite course I took second place and ended up actually winning more "matches" than the winner because after he won, I continued shooting because there was a three way tie for second. I ended up winning all the tie breaker matches. So, against something like 19 other trained shotgunners I used factory sights to come in second. So they are not all that slow. This shoot off consisted of two shooters sitting in folding chairs. Their shotguns were loaded cruiser ready (chamber empty and safety on). At the start signal the shooters got up and engaged two poppers with a hostage in the middle, so you had to hold off with buckshot. You then did a select slug drill and shot an 8" plate at 50 yards. First 8" plate to fall with no hits on the hostage wins.
Earlier in the Gunsite class I broke my recoil pad and borrowed two guns to use while mine was being repaired. One was a Gunsite shotgun that had all the bells and whistles including ghost ring sights which I used for half of one day and I borrowed a gun from Hans Vang to use for another half day which also had all the bells and whistles on it. I found that I didn't really care for the ghost rings, but it very well might have been because I was used to my own gun. Maybe more trigger time I would have ended up liking them better ?
One problem that seemed common in our class was round front sights and ghost ring rear sights. I am talking about the front sights where the top of the front sight is kind of a cylinder, sometimes containing tritium similiar to the front sight on a Model 94 Windchester. Obviously when you are using iron sights, you zero with the point of impact at the top of the front sight. This allows you to see the target and your sight. Everyone zeroed their sights in this manner. However, under pressure, when trying to make fast slug shots, most people were shooting high. Louis Awerbuck said that the reason was that they were centering the round front sight in the round ghost ring rear sight instead of putting the tip of the front sight on the target. This sounds simple and seems like one of those things that we tell ourselves we would never do, but it happened all the time. Louis has taught thousands of shotgun classes and knows what he is talking about. So, if I had my choice with ghost ring sights, I would make sure I was getting a square front sight similar to what you would have on a handgun.

My personal shotgun is a Remignton 870 Express with an 18" Remington factory barrel. No mag tube extension. Surefire 6v dedicated foreend light. Wilderness single point sling, and a Hogue synthetic stock with 12" LOP. Six round sidesaddle.
Not really fancy, but in my limited experience seems to be the best all around set up for me.
As a homeowner or civilian, I don't really plan on carrying my shotgun a lot. But, for the purposes of these classes, these things get heavy fast. So to me, a sling is a must and I have found with both my shotgun and my AR15s, the single point sling is the way to go. YMMV. When standing on the line, I can let the weight of the gun rest on the sling giving my arms and back a rest. I would imagine the same thing would apply if I was actually carrying the shotgun in some kind of ready position. As the saying goes, the sling on a shotgun or rifle serves the same purpose as the holster does for a handgun. I wouldn't consider carrying a handgun without a holster and wouldn't consider carrying a shotgun without a sling. I found the mag extension tubes to cause a similar problem. It added weight to the gun, and the weight was in the wrong place (at the end of the barrel). I can't imagine getting into an 8 round firefight as a civilian without having any opportunity to load from the sidesaddle, so for me, I am going without the extended mag tube. If I was shooting three gun or something like that, I am sure I would want all the ammo in the gun I could get; but at present I am not shooting any of the action shotgun sports.

If you want to buy a tricked out Police Magnum so you don't have to send it away for custom work, you might want to check out what Hans Vang as to offer. He has Police Magnums with bells and whistles ready to go.
http://www.vangcomp.com/

 

[9mmMike]

Good stuff 444. A note on the mag extensions...
I do not find the extra weight significant unless fully loaded. The neat thing about the extension is the ability to keep the gun downloaded a shot or two (and still have three or four onboard) and be able to change from slugs to shot or shot to slugs by topping off.
Just one of a kazillion (that's a bunch) of ways to do things.
Did someone say versatile?
Mike