870P Higher Quality, But Necessary?

[meh92]

FN=Win 1300?

ArmedBear,

You are correct. The FN and Winchester 1300 are fundamentally the same family of shotguns. They are not the same, or particularly similar to the Remington 870 series. Winchester and FN are owned by the same parent company.

 

[AStone]

ArmedBear,

You are correct. The FN and Winchester 1300 are fundamentally the same family of shotguns. They are not the same, or particularly similar to the Remington 870 series. Winchester and FN are owned by the same parent company.

Ah, thanks.

That would explain why the safety is in "the wrong place" for an 870.

I confess, I think I didn't look at Winchesters when I was shopping. Sound like good guns.

Of course, I love my 870. <faithful halo emoticon>

Nem

 

[bofe954]

I went through the hassle of ordering a 870PD. In addition to the things you mentioned in your initial post I wanted rifle sights on a smooth bore barrel. I also wanted the 7 shot extension. I am not sure that buying a cheapie and doing a barrel transplant and adding the extension would have saved me much money. Plus I like the parkerization.

A local gunstore ordered mine through Lew Horton. Most gunshops would be familiar with that name I suspect. They are at lewhorton.com and you could give your favorite gunstore their phone number. The site also has a dealer locator on it and you can enter your zip code.

Keep in mind that if you keep the shotgun long term and shoot it even a fair amount you will spend more on ammo, accessories and cleaning supplies than you will on the 870PD model in few years. Will you still be missing that hundred bucks 15 years from now when you are still shooting the PD model you want? I doubt it...

You could buy a cheapie for now and shoot it for awhile and not be disappointed. If you are interested in a PD now I bet you get rid of your cheapie and pick up a PD some day after you are done with school. It would be cheaper just to get one now.

 

[ArmedBear]

Ah, thanks.

That would explain why the safety is in "the wrong place" for an 870.

I confess, I think I didn't look at Winchesters when I was shopping. Sound like good guns.

Of course, I love my 870. <faithful halo emoticon>

Nem

I be keepin' it steel.

 

[Fastlane]

This post brings backs a lot of memories. It seems like yesterday that Dave was telling me how to remove the barrel from my 870P . But it has been over three years and several thousand rds of ammo. I have shot everything from bird shoot to 3" slugs, never had the first problem with my 870. I have bought and sold several different guns in that time but never considered selling my 870. I'm sure your 870 will be just as reliable as mine.

 

[axeman_g]

Two mathmeticians in one thread? What are the odds? And a ApStat MB entry that is not foreign? At ALABAMA? Will wonders never cease.

I met many Ap Stat and Stat people while working on Applied Statistical Geography project back in 1990 with UGA, Alabama and LSU. Interesting group of people ...

Get the 870P or SP

 

[AStone]

Two mathmeticians in one thread? What are the odds?

OMG, a pop quiz.

Wow, with this many math heads around, somebody ought to be able to figure that one out.

Let's see, first we list all the THR members who've ever visited the shotgun forum.

Then, we ... we...we, well, I don't know.

OK, let's start with an easier question:

Two trains were leaving Chicago going in opposite directions...



Nem

 

[axeman_g]

I swear

I swear on the bible that the only thing better then math humor is phone company humor! Those telephony engineers just kill me.

 

[AStone]

I swear on the bible that the only thing better then math humor is phone company humor!

<Sorry to jack the thread momentarily with math humor; it's only momentary {lim t --> 0}>

Here's a verbal description of one of my all time favorite math cartoons.

Single frame. Two academic types in tweed jackets with patches on the elbows in front of a HUGE chalkboard. One is smoking a pipe, the other has a piece of chalk in his hand.

The chalkboard is chock full of math: integrals, derivatives, line after line after line.

They are standing in front of the only place not written in, lower right corner.

The guy with the chalk looks at the guy, who's looking on with anticipation, and says, "And here, a miracle happens."

 

[marklbucla]

And a ApStat MB entry that is not foreign? At ALABAMA?

Well, I am Asian though. I have gotten the "Hel-lo....where...are...you...from?" a couple of times.

"Uh, Los Angeles."

Then they get a look.

People think it's weird that I'd want to go from the PRK to Alabama, and even weirder too for a non-white person. I still get the "Are you going be hangin' with the Klan?" questions all the time though. The ironic thing is that the racial tension seems to be much much lower key here than back home. I feel that there really might be more discrimination because i'm an Angelino, not because of my color!

To throw it back on track a bit, I'm really happy I've gotten the chance to wear out parts on my 870 at an outdoor range here. I've always preferred the shotgun, but shooting at paper at an indoor range gets old really fast. The most entertainment I can get is basically starting at the lower right corner and and finishing at the top left corner, destroying the whole paper. Because of this, I couldn't really get to practice what I learned in those shotgun courses I took. Outdoors, I'm free to do what I want as long as the gun stays pointed downrange and none of my bullets/shot don't leave the range.

I think the gun may be worth fixing !

Well, yeah, but then I wouldn't have the excuse I need to get the 870P! Besides, is it The High Road to be talking me out of a new gun purchase?





Here's another one for you, Nematocyst-870

 

[TWBryan]

FLAmike- AAA Gun & Pawn in DeLand has 870p and mossberg 590 last time I looked. It's where I purchased my 500at.

TWBryan

 

[Karate]

I have the 870 Marine Magnum...I have not had a chance to shoot it yet only picked it up this week...but it seems to be really solid

 

[FlaMike]

Thanks for the advice guys.

I appreciate the advice. I think I will end up with the 870P. I have found one local gunshop that is willing to order the model I want. There price on the 870P (18", bead, synth stocks, park.) is $495. I have never seen any retail pricing on the 870P, just the Express models. Is $495 a decent price? Sounded fair.

FlaMike.

 

[carolinaman]

Hi there,

I am glad you are buying the 870P and have owned many, many 870's.

My current defense shotty is a Mossberg 500 persauder. It is the least fired weapon in my collection of longarms, but serves "sentry" duty quite well.

Chris

 

[meh92]

$495 is on the high side. You can usually find them new online for substantially less. Of course, you'd have to find an FFL to do the transfer and that adds to the cost. My FFL charges me $10 per gun. It's not uncommon to find FFL's who charge $25 per transfer.

Here's an example:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=40966043

Any price over $425 would seem to be really out of line for the basic 18" bead-sighted gun. Of course, ghost-rings, mag extensions, and other options will add to the cost.

 

[AStone]

Is $495 a decent price? Sounded fair.

FlaMike, I agree with Meh92: that's considerably on the high side for the options you listed.

Reread my post in this thread (post #4) to get the name & contact info of a store in Idaho from which I just bought my 870P with the same options you want (bead, solid synth stock, parkerized). The whole deal - gun, shipping & FFL (in my case, $15) - only cost me $430.

For a long while that store had 3 of that gun in stock (Rem order #4403). That means there's probably two left.

I'd give them a call. Ask to talk with Stephanie.

Good luck finding one. I think you're making a good decision with an 870P.

Nem

 

[meh92]

Another suggestion is to go with the wood furniture. It's a bit cheaper and if you plan on swapping out the stock and forend sometime down the road it makes sense to save a few pennies up front. I bought the wood furniture version and here's what the gun looks like now.

I wanted the 13"LOP combo stock and it was cheaper for me to buy the stock separate than to buy it configured that way from Remington. YMMV

 

[AStone]

Meh92, is that ghost ring sight or rifle?

If GR, which ones? (I'm exploring all I can; don't like the Wilson's that come on the 870P's, so I just got a bead with a thought of maybe adding something else later.)

Nem

 

[FlaMike]

Nematocyst... Thanks for the info. I went to thier website after reading your first (#4) response. I got the impression they sold to LE only. I will call them for sure Monday morning. The price you got is much better than my local guy, plus no sales tax. Thanks again.

FlaMike

 

[meh92]

Ghost rings?

The sights on my 870P are the (Remington) factory-installed rifle sights. The only modification I made was a few dabs of flourescent orange paint.

I had an 870P with Scattergun Technologies ghost rings installed and I found that in dim light I could not shoot it accurately. I'm not talking about dusk or night, just in lower-light such as under a heavy canopy of trees in the forrest, in the middle of the day. My eyes just didn't work well with that settup.

The rifle sights are rugged, precise and work very well for me. Also, there are upgrades for them such as Remington's tritium rifle sights and XS big dots and "express" rear blade available as bolt-ons.

 

[AStone]

Nematocyst... Thanks for the info. I went to thier website after reading your first (#4) response. I got the impression they sold to LE only.

FM, I thought the same first time I looked at their site.

When I called to clarify, they told me they'll sell to anyone.

LEO's get a better deal than the rest of us, but even for non-LEO's (like me) their price is still better than what you found before.

Hope they've still got one like you want. Keep us posted.

Nem

 

[AStone]

I had an 870P with Scattergun Technologies ghost rings installed and I found that in dim light I could not shoot it accurately. I'm not talking about dusk or night, just in lower-light such as under a heavy canopy of trees in the forrest, in the middle of the day. My eyes just didn't work well with that settup.

If I'm not mistaken, Scattergun Tech (now Wilson) uses the same GR's as those that come on the Rem factory models with GR's. In fact, on the Rem site, they specifically list them as Wilson GR's.

I didn't like the one's I saw either. Aperture is too small for me.

If I replace my bead - still an "if" at this point (i'll see how I do with the bead) - then I'm more likely to go with GR's with a larger aperture, like these, which I think are larger apertures than Wilson's. {Scroll down to see the options for rear site.}

There's another site (e.g., URL) out there somewhere that offers even larger aperture rear GR's than those, protected by high 'wings' on the side, but I've misplaced the URL.

Nem

 

[meh92]

Here are some things to consider. I didn't give it much thought before putting the GR's on my 870 so I'll pass it along as something to chew on.

To install GR's on any gun, you will have to drill and tap the receiver. That is an added expense. If you find out you don't like them, then you have a few holes in your receiver and a big honkin' front sight bar. Of course, that may or may not bother you. It bugged me so I sold my GR 870P and bought a new one with rifle sights.

Now, to switch from a bead to rifle sights would only require a barrel swap... that's it. No muss, no fuss.

Finally, (and I'm not so sure that this is an issue with shotguns) any time you remove the barrel from a GR-equipped receiver, there is a possibility that the barrel will not reinstall exactly as befrore and your POI will shift slightly. For precise slug work that might be an issue. Whatever the case, it's something else to consider.

I know that GR's are all the rage these days, but the good old-fashioned rifle sights work exceptionally well and should be given at least some consideration. Now, very precise work can be done with just a front bead and slugs, it just requires more effort and concentration. I was in a "tactical" match two years ago and watched a guy break head-sized balloons with slugs and an 870 equipped with a 26" ventilated rib and single bead. The ranges were out to 75 yards and he was 100%. I was next to him with my GR 870 and was pretty thoroughly impressed.

Good luck with your decision and let me know if I can be of any more assistance.

 

[AStone]

I know that GR's are all the rage these days, but the good old-fashioned rifle sights work exceptionally well and should be given at least some consideration. Now, very precise work can be done with just a front bead and slugs, it just requires more effort and concentration.

I think you must have been studying with Dave McC.

Seriously, Dave makes similar points. He councils us to make mod decisions with discretion after having gotten to know what we've got first, and makes similar claims about the accuracy possible with bead sights.

Your caveats about GR's are some of the best I've read. Thanks for offering them.

That's precisely why I chose to buy a plain jane 870 to begin with (aside from the synth stock): I want to get to know it first as it is before making any mods.

You'll note my emphasis on "if" in my previous post for that reason.

So, to carry this a step further, even though I strongly suspect this is a 'duh' question: if one wanted to, could one install rifle sights on a bead gun instead of GR's?

I thought about going that route with my original order, but since my shottie is intended more for HD/SD than hunting, and since most hunting I'll do with it (with longer barrel) is for bird, and since both of those are more about 'pointing' than aiming, I went with bead to begin.

Thanks, Meh.

Nem

 

[meh92]

Nem,

Thank you for the kind words.

One of the beauties of the 870 is the modular barrel system. You can "have it all" with one receiver and a few different barrels. Sure, you could have rifle sights professionally installed on a bead-sighted gun but it would be much easier and cheaper to just buy a rifle-sighted barrel. They are readily available from the factory (but not cheap) and regularly come up on ebay, gunbroker, and auction arms for much less than the ridiculous MSRP.

If you plan on using your gun for bird shooting, the rear ghost ring screwed/epoxied into the receiver will cause you some serious problems. A receiver-mounted pic rail will also goof up your sight picture. A rifle-sighted barrel would not be a problem because both the front and rear sights are right on the barrel, not the receiver.

If you wanted to scope the SG and use it for deer, etc., then Remington makes a cantilever-mount barrel whcih has the mount right on the barrel. The receiver is left clean and there are no POI-shift issues.

I did a lot of training before I decided to make the changes I did to my gun. I wasted a bit of money and time before settling on my gun's final configuration. You have the right idea about buying the basics and letting your training and practice tell you what you need.

I unconditionally recommend a tactical shotgun course taught by Mr. Rob Haught. Look him up online and see if he is coming to a club near you. His experience and abilities with an 870 are simply astounding. The tuition to one of his classes is money well spent and probably better than any piece of equipment you could possibly buy for your gun.

Take care and stay safe.