9mm: 124gr NATO (+P) or 147gr fmj (flat-head) for wildlife defense?

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peacebutready

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Good Day,

I live in an area where there are mountain lions and relatively small bears where there is hiking. Would 9mm 124gr NATO, which puts out about 385 ft/lbs energy or 9mm 147gr fmj (flat-point), which puts out 325 ft/lbs energy, be best for a defense scenario against those creatures?

I'm not a hunter and firing would be a last option.

Happy Shooting.
 
Are you limited to those two rounds? If not, I would suggest a modern JHP round. But if I have to choose one over the other, I vote for the 124 grain NATO
 
In gneral I would go with the 147gr. You will likelly get more penetration out of it over the 124Gr NATO which is just hotter, and slightly higher pressure. If you are shooting animals, even smaller ones like dogs and wild cats, the angle you shoot them at usually necessitates a greater depth of penetration than on a human target to reach the critical areas to incapacitate, so penetration is the key. The best would be 147gr+P comming out of a Glock 34---longer barrel to maximize velocity, more weight to settle the barrel back down quicker for followup shots and 19+1 rounds to shoot. Even if you don't survive, the large pile of empty brass will show you put up a good fight!
 
You're probably just as likely to encounter a knife-wielding homeless psycho who means you malice as you are a bear or cougar bent on mauling you.

Personally, I would want a quality defensive JHP that can double as an animal repellent than a dedicated "bear/cougar/wolf" round. A bonded 124gr +P JHP should serve this role favorably.
 
I agree with Snowdog,I spend a lot of time in the woods while large cats are rare around here bears,wolves,and coyotes are common.As of yet I useually
only get a flash of the critters as they are departing post haste.When in the woods without a long gun I carry a 4" Smith 357 or my 1911.Just use a good
bonded jhp and give bears a chance to leave.Dont panic or run you will be fine.
 
Your best bet would be situational awareness. I've encountered our "small" black bears in the wild and it has always been a non-event. Spooked us both a time or two, but no big deal.

This probably isn't overflowing with helpful advice, but it is a VERY interesting read:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_3_37/ai_n58588638/

My head is still spinning trying to beleive the officer dropped a black bear (really, size is irrelevant...a non-cub bear is a bear is a bear) with one well placed (read: lucky) head shot from his service issue 40 cal glock 22. An unfortunate event all around, but I found the article to be a worthwhile read.
 
9MM....Nah just be sure and have a PETA member with you. They have immunity from wild animals so you'll be safe.
 
124-grain sturdy controlled expansion round is the best choice for what you describe. Gold Dot is a great and reasonably economical choice.
 
peacebutready said:
Good Day,

I live in an area where there are mountain lions and relatively small bears where there is hiking. Would 9mm 124gr NATO, which puts out about 385 ft/lbs energy or 9mm 147gr fmj (flat-point), which puts out 325 ft/lbs energy, be best for a defense scenario against those creatures?

I'm not a hunter and firing would be a last option.

Happy Shooting.
Click to expand...
As stated above, kinetic energy matters not one bit.

The two rounds that you mention- the 9mm 124 gr. NATO FMJRN and the 9mm 147 gr. FMJFP- will produce plenty of penetration in soft tissue. The 124 gr. NATO FMJRN ought to be good for 29" - 31" of penetration and the 147 gr. FMJFP, ought to be good for 32" - 35" of penetration.

Pick your poison.
 
peacebutready said:
Good Day,

I live in an area where there are mountain lions and relatively small bears where there is hiking. Would 9mm 124gr NATO, which puts out about 385 ft/lbs energy or 9mm 147gr fmj (flat-point), which puts out 325 ft/lbs energy, be best for a defense scenario against those creatures?

I'm not a hunter and firing would be a last option.

Happy Shooting.
Click to expand...
May I suggest Winchester T series 147gr JHPs. They are +p+ and have a deep penitration as well as being good JHPS.

And while you are at it, carry a cheap Mossberg 'Maverick' 18 inch 12 gauge with Brenneke Black Magic Magnum Slugs. The 3 in, 1 3/8 oz slugs at 1500 fps will take the wind out of just about anythings sail... even the shooters sail!

Deaf
 
When I hike, I occasionally carry a 9mm loaded with the Winchester Ranger 127gr +P+ loading. I don't feel under gunned in the least.
 
I carry 124grn +P Gold Dots for general carry but in the woods with only a 9mm I carry NATO Spec. ammunition. I have seen what it does to barriers and soft tissue in animals. (It penetrates ;) )

When I hike the AT I personally prefer to have my 5" 1911 loaded with http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=214. :evil:

Self Defense loads are intended for humans and while they may work on light skinned game to some extent, please use a solid bullet for maximum penetration on thick boned/muscled/skinned animals with something as weak as a handgun caliber bullet for the best terminal results.

-Jake
 
Snowdog said:
You're probably just as likely to encounter a knife-wielding homeless psycho who means you malice as you are a bear or cougar bent on mauling you.

Personally, I would want a quality defensive JHP that can double as an animal repellent than a dedicated "bear/cougar/wolf" round. A bonded 124gr +P JHP should serve this role favorably.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the response. Maybe a mag of JHP and a mag of FMJFP. If there's time, through in the better mag for the purpose.
 
Thanks

FMF Doc: Thanks. Also PM sent.

iblong: Good advice about not panicking and letting them leave.

ForumSurfer: Yes, situation awareness to prevent.

YJake: Good point about h.p.'s not being designed for wildlife.



All: Thanks for your advice. Bears may be my favorite of all wildlife. I'll read about avoiding a confrontation in the first place.
 
Why do people try to use the 9mm for situations it wasn't meant for? Just buy a larger caliber handgun .357 or bigger and use the 9 for SD and no, 9MM +P+ ammo is not equal to a 357 magnum for large game.
 
+P hollow point only

Peaceful,

I would go with a +P hollowpoint and not consider a full metal jacket round. Cougars are not large animals, large dog size. Unless you think coming across a bear is a real possibility, I would stick with the all purpose hollowpoint and add some extra power by using a +P round.
I am not a believer in the "heavy" 9m.m. loads, so I would not consider the 147 grain round.

If bears are a consideration, I would go with at least a 6 inch barreled .357 magnum and a heavy bullet like the 180 grain rounds. They will penetrate deeply, but are a poor choice for self defense because of over penetration and lack of expansion.

Jim
 
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