Taurus Judge/Raging Judge for Outdoor protection?
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RetiredUSNChief
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If you're carrying legally, then attention from authorities won't matter. If they're going to check on someone, they'll do so regardless of the handgun being carried.
FL-NC
Member
I have seen a wounded black bear in Maine shot dead from a treetop by a guide with a 9mm. The guide was an ex game warden. Most other guides carried 45 autos of some type. You could get a Glock 45 or a 1911 like a Remington or rock island, or a good used springfield, all in the $500 range- plentiful cheaper ammo than 45 LC or 10mm or any magnum, and better performance than a 9mm. Snakes? Watch where you are walking or sticking other body parts. Not much point in killing them unless they are hanging out where you live.
Good Ol' Boy
Member
My two cents is that the Judge is a fun gimmick/range toy.
My advice would be a .22 pistol with shotshell for the snakes and a 12g with slugs for the bears.
Easy enough to carry both in the back country.
My advice would be a .22 pistol with shotshell for the snakes and a 12g with slugs for the bears.
Easy enough to carry both in the back country.
greenmtnguy
Member
My recommendation, get a charter arms bulldog XL in 45 Colt.much smaller and lighter than a judge and should be under $400 new. They also have it in 45acp, thou shotshells in 45Colt are more common and not hard to load your own
Personally I think you would do just fine with the Judge. .410 is a lot better for snakes, and the .45 L Colt of standard pressure has a great deal of stopping power for bears that average less than 400 pounds.
I would load first two rounds with .410 than the rest with .45 L Colt. And yes - black bear attacks are rare.
I would load first two rounds with .410 than the rest with .45 L Colt. And yes - black bear attacks are rare.
Zaydok Allen
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If it were me I'd buy a Redhawk in 44 mag and find some CCI shot shells or load some shot shell myself.
Snakes, criminals, and bears alike are covered with that choice. I've shot the Judge Public Defender, the standard Judge, the S&W Governor, and owned a Bond Arms Snake Slayer IV. None of them did anything particularly well and IMO a 44 mag or 45 Colt revolver would be a more effective sidearm.
Snakes, criminals, and bears alike are covered with that choice. I've shot the Judge Public Defender, the standard Judge, the S&W Governor, and owned a Bond Arms Snake Slayer IV. None of them did anything particularly well and IMO a 44 mag or 45 Colt revolver would be a more effective sidearm.
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benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Buffalo Bore makes a 147gr hard cast +P 9mm round that is probably a lot better for (exceedingly unlikely) bear defense than lightweight JHP.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=388
There is a photo on that page of an attacking grizzly killed by that load from a S&W 3953 3.5" 9mm, though it probably took a magazine full of them, and several of the participants probably had to change their undergarments afterwards.
They also make heavy hardcast solids (their "Outdoorsman" line) in other popular defensive calibers---.40 S&W, .45 ACP, 10mm, .38 Special, .357---as well as a version for either standard-pressure or +P .45 Colt.
45 colt for black bear is plety where I come from... Oregon. .410 2.5" shells are perfect for snakes. I think the Judge is perfect for your needs. If it were me I would pay the extra and get a S&W Governor instead... 6 rounds instead of 5 and the ability to use 45 acp.
A 2.5" .410 shell is going to pack a LOT more shot than any handgun cartridge loaded with shot is capable of holding.
The Judge (Governor) gets a bad wrap due to the people that want to load it with buck shot and use it as a night stand gun... which makes no sense to me. As a trail gun I think they are perfect if you don't mind carrying that much weight. Buy a package of 410 flares for when you are lost and need to be found.
A 2.5" .410 shell is going to pack a LOT more shot than any handgun cartridge loaded with shot is capable of holding.
The Judge (Governor) gets a bad wrap due to the people that want to load it with buck shot and use it as a night stand gun... which makes no sense to me. As a trail gun I think they are perfect if you don't mind carrying that much weight. Buy a package of 410 flares for when you are lost and need to be found.
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Absolutely not. I don't trust Taurus and won't let a love one carry it. Their transfer bars are notorious for breaking. Taurus is aware of it but won't heat treat it or change the material. I guess it's cheaper replace the part with the same cheap metal.
Go with an American made revolver like Ruger or S&W.
Go with an American made revolver like Ruger or S&W.
WestKentucky
Member
I would skip the judge platform if your not going Raging. .357 true magnums are enough if you put them where they count, and a 38spl shot capsule is mean on slithering vermin. That said, a 44 mag is better for bear and a poky stick is good enough to whack a snake. A lot quieter too so it draws less attention. Some places (Tn for one) it is illegal to kill a snake that isn’t threatening you. I agree that snakes ought to stay off of paths, but they don’t. And if it were a busy path and the snake be a forked-tongue model then I believe I would feel threatened, but I don’t think I would want to explain why I felt threatened.
I carry that in my 9mm in the woods. No grizzlies where I play.
I also handloaded some Lehigh Xtreme Penetrators to factory spec velocity and got about the same results.
OP, I hear that the 9mm shotshells generally will not cycle the action. You may want to test that out.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
It always amazes me about people wanting a gun for incidental defensive use against snakes.
Snakes are about the easiest things in the world to take care of when in the woods. Wear the right footwear and avoid them or use a stick. Be aware.
If you've got time to pull your pistol on a snake, you've got time to back away or use your walking stick.
When you're hiking in the woods...you're in THEIR home, not yours. Snakes are not notorious hunters of humans...they very much do not wish to get involved with humans (or other large animals) because they instinctively understand the dangers involved with taking on such large critters. Virtually all snake bites are therefore due to humans stumbling upon the snakes (accidentally or through negligence). Shooting the snake just because its a snake isn't a defensive act.
If the snake has already bitten you...well, self-defense against the snake already failed.
Now, if you're actually hunting snakes, by all means...have at it with whatever gun you wish. Ridding your property of venomous snakes, for example.
Snakes are about the easiest things in the world to take care of when in the woods. Wear the right footwear and avoid them or use a stick. Be aware.
If you've got time to pull your pistol on a snake, you've got time to back away or use your walking stick.
When you're hiking in the woods...you're in THEIR home, not yours. Snakes are not notorious hunters of humans...they very much do not wish to get involved with humans (or other large animals) because they instinctively understand the dangers involved with taking on such large critters. Virtually all snake bites are therefore due to humans stumbling upon the snakes (accidentally or through negligence). Shooting the snake just because its a snake isn't a defensive act.
If the snake has already bitten you...well, self-defense against the snake already failed.
Now, if you're actually hunting snakes, by all means...have at it with whatever gun you wish. Ridding your property of venomous snakes, for example.
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Jim NE
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For one gun fits all, instead of the Judge, I'd maybe get a .44 Special revolver or magnum (they make shot shells for this) but something more stoutly built than a Charter Arms. If you want Charter Arms, they now make a .45LC in an extra large frame that could probably handle some of the Buffalo Bore loads, but I don't know if they make .45LC shot shells.You might research it. I'm sure that they make .44 spec./mag shot shells.
If you want to stay with Taurus, I have a (discontinued) 445 revolver in .44 Special which is very good quality, and BB says their outdoorsman ammo will make 500 ft. lb.s ME out of my short barrel, but more importantly, the hard cast bullets penetrate well. But for bears I'd maybe look for a .44 Special with a longer barrel for more velocity, or just get a magnum. Of course a Blackhawk could handle any load, but I'd worry that a single action maybe wouldn't be quick enough for snakes.
If you want to stay with Taurus, I have a (discontinued) 445 revolver in .44 Special which is very good quality, and BB says their outdoorsman ammo will make 500 ft. lb.s ME out of my short barrel, but more importantly, the hard cast bullets penetrate well. But for bears I'd maybe look for a .44 Special with a longer barrel for more velocity, or just get a magnum. Of course a Blackhawk could handle any load, but I'd worry that a single action maybe wouldn't be quick enough for snakes.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I go with my Colt New Service in .45 Colt. You can get shot capsules in .45, or load your own very simply. I charge the case with 3 grains of Bullseye, seat a gas check, pushing it all the way down, then pour in the shot, I finish off with an inverted gas check, upside down, crimp the case and seal with a bit of silicone.
Jim NE
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Good to know. Thanks.
Pat Riot
Contributing Member
Here is an article I found on the Judge that helped me decide not to buy one.
https://www.swatmag.com/article/verdict-taurus-judge-revolver/
When I carry in the woods I don’t worry about snakes and bears. I worry about 2 legged varmints
https://www.swatmag.com/article/verdict-taurus-judge-revolver/
When I carry in the woods I don’t worry about snakes and bears. I worry about 2 legged varmints
Vern Humphrey
Member
I stand by my original verdict on the Judge -- a bad idea, poorly executed.
The Evangelist Cowboy
Member
Im going to have to highly agree with this post, the .45 colt out of a dedicated revolver is going to be a fine round for any defensive situations even with standard pressure loads. A 9mm that you already have would be fine to, these are black bear we are talking about not the brutes of the Kodiak, and you can find 9mm shotshells as well for snake, if you want a judge than by all means get one, but if you have the money and want a dedicated trail revolver youll be better served with another gun.
DannyLandrum
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But what are you gonna really do? Stagger - 3 shots of .45 colt interspersed with 2 shots of birdshot, or what?
If you do shoot .45 colt in a judge, use .454 sized bullets (not .451-452) so that they'll obturate in that shallow rifling.
So in a word, my answer would be no. Just get a regular .45 colt. Smaller and also shoots birdshot (.45 colt birdshot).... this will be more accurate with regular .45 colt loads. I recommend a Redhawk. Or hey, get a GP100 in .44 special - they also have birdshot for those.
If you do shoot .45 colt in a judge, use .454 sized bullets (not .451-452) so that they'll obturate in that shallow rifling.
So in a word, my answer would be no. Just get a regular .45 colt. Smaller and also shoots birdshot (.45 colt birdshot).... this will be more accurate with regular .45 colt loads. I recommend a Redhawk. Or hey, get a GP100 in .44 special - they also have birdshot for those.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I have bears on my property here in Arkansas. They are not dangerous -- under normal circumstances. But NEVER let a bear get the idea your house or feed room is his cafeteria -- he'll come straight through the walls to get a meal.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Bears...best advice is avoid, avoid, avoid if at all possible.
I had to straighten this out with some friends of one of my daughters on their postings elsewhere.
Too many people anthropomorphize bears and their behavior. They are an apex predator in their own right and we need to respect that, regardless of how cute we may think they are or anything else we believe about them.
Their behavior is driven by their own set of instincts and how they view the world around them by those instincts. Human behavior, which may be totally non-threatening to other humans in any way may, may in fact trigger a violent response from a bear because of the way they interpret our behavior through their own instincts.
The simple act of looking at a bear, combined with certain body postures and movements, may do this.
I had to straighten this out with some friends of one of my daughters on their postings elsewhere.
Too many people anthropomorphize bears and their behavior. They are an apex predator in their own right and we need to respect that, regardless of how cute we may think they are or anything else we believe about them.
Their behavior is driven by their own set of instincts and how they view the world around them by those instincts. Human behavior, which may be totally non-threatening to other humans in any way may, may in fact trigger a violent response from a bear because of the way they interpret our behavior through their own instincts.
The simple act of looking at a bear, combined with certain body postures and movements, may do this.
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