Taurus Judge/Raging Judge for Outdoor protection?

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AvidHiker

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I hike a lot in remote areas in Western NC. The main threats are black bear and rattlesnakes/copperheads. Both of which I have had encounters with.

Im thinking a Taurus Judge of some sort is appropriate for both of these threats. Shotshell for snakes and .45 colt (NON anemic loads -buffalo bore standard press - 550 ft/lbs) or .454 casull for black bear. Would rather not spend $800-900 on the .454 casull model though...

I currently carry an EAA witness (CZ-75 clone) in 9mm with extended mag. Run 9mm +P+ hollowpoints for the first 5 shots and the rest FMJ. Muzzle energy is somewhere around 500 ft/lbs with the +P+.

Do you guys think a judge shooting standard pressure buffalo bore .45 colt is good enough for black bear? 255gr. Gas checked soft cast bullet (1000 fps M.E.566 ft. lbs.)

Might be slower out of a smaller judge barrel.
 
A 410 revolver is great for snakes, one of the few areas where it really excels.

45 Colt from a 410 revolver is probably adequate but certainly not optimal for bear protection. A standard Judge is not recommended for 45 Colt cartridges loaded above SAAMI MAP of 14,000 psi

A Raging Judge would allow you to up the power level to hot 45 Colt or 454 Casull.

That said if your going to spend $800-$900 on a Raging Judge I think I would rather just have a good used S&W 29/629 for less money. I can hit a snake at spitting distance with a bullet and I can walk way from one if further than that. 44 Mag is more than enough protection from a bruin of any type with the right ammo. YMMV
 
Thanks for the input, I would never ever plan on shooting a bear unless it attacked me. The main threat is poisonous snakes that like to lay out on the narrow trail and sunbathe. I tend to live and let live but sometimes they simply wont move.

These are black bear so they are smaller than most, but I do think .45 standard loads from buffalo bore would be adequate but less than ideal. Larger bullet but similar power to .357 mag.

For only $340 or so you can get a judge, hard to justify 800-900 for a raging judge.
 
How often are Black Bear justifiably killed in NC? I'm asking because I don't know. I can tell you where I live, unless it's hunting season and you've got a fairly rare tag, you'd be in the news in a bad way. They are numerous here, but most people that encounter them just admire them. Nevertheless, I understand on average there's 1.25 fatal attacks per year in North America. Black Bear attacks are extremely rare compared to muggings or armed robbery and other causes for use of lethal force, but the good thing is that they kill easily compared to Grizz. You don't need a .454 Casull or .460 S&W. The same gun you're much more likely to use for hold-up men would probably work for Black Bear just as well. But you want to shoot snakes in the wilderness with it too? Shooting snakes on your property to keep them from harming children, pets or livestock makes sense (if you can lawfully discharge firearms in the area). Still, by the time you dig the earplugs out of your pocket, you could have dispatched the snake with a shovel already. Out in the wood's, I'd just admire them and step around. It sounds more like you're either trying to justify coveting a .410 revolver with some sort of rationale, or you just want a new gun.


Edit: 1.25 fatal attacks per year includes Canada, not just the United States. There's been 11 fatal attacks in the US in the last 20 years, or 0.55 per year, none in North Carolina in at least 20 years.
 
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labnoti said:
How often are Black Bear justifiably killed in NC? I'm asking because I don't know. I can tell you where I live, unless it's hunting season and you've got a fairly rare tag, you'd be in the news in a bad way. They are numerous here, but most people that encounter them just admire them. Nevertheless, I understand on average there's 1.25 fatal attacks per year in the United States. Black Bear attacks are extremely rare compared to muggings or armed robbery and other causes for use of lethal force, but the good thing is that they kill easily compared to Grizz. You don't need a .454 Casull or .460 S&W. The same gun you're much more likely to use for hold-up men would probably work for Black Bear just as well. But you want to shoot snakes in the wilderness with it too? Shooting snakes on your property to keep them from harming children, pets or livestock makes sense (if you can lawfully discharge firearms in the area), but out in the wood's I'd just admire them and step around. It sounds more like you're either trying to justify coveting a .410 revolver with some sort of rationale, or you just want a new gun.
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huh? Like I said, only if I were actually attacked. There is no cell service, there is no refuge where I hike. I dont want to kill anything unless they absolutely must, I thought I made that clear? The trail is fairly narrow, you can not simply "go around" in some cases. Its nantahala national forest so you can discharge firearms legally (no one would hear it anyway, its so remote). I also have a concealed carry permit.

There is no help if you get bit by a snake, ive had to deal with going around snakes and have had a VERY close call once. If I get bit 6 miles from help with no one to contact, im done basically. I will shoot a snake to preserve my own well being rather than risk a bite.

Simply put, I felt my 9mm pistol may not have been the best candidate for defense. While the Judge filled in a good niche between snake disposal and bear defense with .410 and .45 LC.

I dont really want anything new and in fact would like to buy my friends used Judge for $200 or so. Only issue is he lives across the state and shipping would be difficult.
 
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I bought a Judge for fun, and it is fun. It sounds like the OP might have legitimate uses for one. For snakes I think it would be a good choice. 45 colt seems like plenty of gun for black bear, in the extremely unlikely event that one would bother a human. It seems like the 45 colt would be more likely needed against two-legged predators than four-legged ones.
 
Tallball said:
I bought a Judge for fun, and it is fun. It sounds like the OP might have legitimate uses for one. For snakes I think it would be a good choice. 45 colt seems like plenty of gun for black bear, in the extremely unlikely event that one would bother a human ms like the 45 colt would be more likely needed against two-legged predators than four-legged ones.
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I agree, its far more likely a person would attempt to harm me rather than a bear. Just wanted to more sure it was enough "gun" if worst comes to worst.
 
I would prefer either my Blackhawk or Smith 624, both 44 specials, with one or two Speer shot caps followed by Lyman 429421 over the Skelton load of Unique. Not hot but quite effective. Had a Judge. What a disappointment. Lousy patterns with everything but 3" 7 1/2s and that only to about 25 feet. Leaded like crazy with cast bullets that never lead in any of my other 45s.
 
If I cant get the Judge from my friend I think ill stick with my 9mm pistol. +P+ FMJ can be pretty devastating even if 115 grain bullets are on the smaller side. Think ill pickup some CCI 9mm shotshells.
 
I wouldn't call 9mm shot shells "marginal" -- I've never used 9mm shot shells, but I've killed many a rat, copperhead and ratter with .22 LR shot shells -- and they hold a lot less shot.
 
I've hiked up there in Nantahala NF (my mom lives in Franklin) and have seen one bear from a distance. That was enough to convince me. I felt that, with my usual avoidance strategies, the compact 9mm I had would probably get me out of any trouble, but recently decided to step up a little to my Police Service Six loaded with a 158-grain (.357 Magnum) JSP round. Between the limited likelihood of an actual encounter and what the .357 can do, I'm not inclined (yet) to go up again in caliber, as I don't own anything in .45 other than .45ACP.

I think the OP probably spends a lot more time there than I do (I go up about every year) and is within reason to consider what he is, for the reasons he is. Even just walking around in town at night can lead you and a bear to close proximity to each other. I tend to hang at her house until late at night when I visit, then walk the 1/4 mile back to my hotel room.
 
Check with Alaskan guide Phil Shoemaker about 9mm effectiveness. I believe he killed a grizzly with one fairly recently. Not recommended but it happened.
 
I often see black bears where I live but it has been years and years since an incident involving serious injury from a black bear. I have had to kill 3 rabid raccoons, so I carry a 44 or 45. If I am going where snakes are a problem I put one or two shot shells up front. If I want to go light I carry a Charter Arms 44, it is inexpensive and effective.
 
If you wanna keep your 9mm for bear, check out Underwood's 9mm +P+ FMJ-flat nose. That's what I run for black bear if I only have my 9mm. Then again, I never had a black bear issue.

If you get a Judge cheap for shot shells, it's not a bad idea. But if you wanna justify a revolver purchase, there are much better options as the Judge really is more in the novelty category of use.
 
MedWheeler said:
I've hiked up there in Nantahala NF (my mom lives in Franklin) and have seen one bear from a distance. That was enough to convince me. I felt that, with my usual avoidance strategies, the compact 9mm I had would probably get me out of any trouble, but recently decided to step up a little to my Police Service Six loaded with a 158-grain (.357 Magnum) JSP round. Between the limited likelihood of an actual encounter and what the .357 can do, I'm not inclined (yet) to go up again in caliber, as I don't own anything in .45 other than .45ACP.

I think the OP probably spends a lot more time there than I do (I go up about every year) and is within reason to consider what he is, for the reasons he is. Even just walking around in town at night can lead you and a bear to close proximity to each other. I tend to hang at her house until late at night when I visit, then walk the 1/4 mile back to my hotel room.
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Yes, I actually live in Franklin. Well, not in the city but in a rural area a few miles out. I go hiking every other day, for exercise and good health. Sitting at the computer for 8+ hours a day will make you want to be outside.

I think I will research appropriate 9mm rounds. One time I came upon a bear and her two cubs, suffice to say I got the hell out of the area ASAP.
 
From what I understand, Black Bears are pretty skiddish during the day unless it's a mama with cubs. At night, I've heard that if they attack you, they are trying to make you food.
I've never had an issue with them in my years of hiking around TN/NC. I've gone on impromptu couple hour hikes with nothing more than a 9mm snub nose revolver and no reloads. I just didn't have anything bigger with me at the time.
I'm heading back down to the mountains of NC this fall to stay a couple nights in a cabin. Part of me wants to use this as excuse to buy a new gun, but I know that I honestly I'll probably be just fine with my full size 9mm SIG P320 loaded with hard cast ammo.
 
I've got a question, how are you going to load the Judge? One shot shell, one .45 colt, one shot shell or 3 shot shells then the rest in .45 or whatever other combination? Doesn't sound very practical to me if you have an angry bear charging towards you or an unexpected snake in your path and you have to shoot quickly.
 
The best defense against snakes is appropriate protective wear and a sharp eye. Along with that, a walking stick.

A snake that's outside of striking distance, especially on a hike, is a snake to be left alone. A snake within striking distance is best avoided or dealt with using the walking stick which is already in your hands.

Not saying a gun is NEVER appropriate with snakes, mind you, but it's not as if these are predators who track you and hunt you down. But in general, the vast majority of snake encounters are most likely to be resolved as above...if you've got time to unlimber your gun, you've likely got time for those other options.

If you have reason to believe other predatory wildlife may be a problem, by all means carry as appropriate. But be sure situational awareness is up to par with those expectations, as well.
 
I agree with the idea of a walking stick, proper footwear, and simple awareness being the best protection against snakes. Though I mentioned above hiking at times in WNC, it's actually South Florida that's my home territory. It's also heavy snake territory. I've never (to date) carried a gun intended primarily for protection against them or set up as such. It's pretty much just my usual carry 9mm compact along with me, frequently accompanied by my usual BUG .32 subcompact.

I always hike with a walking stick, too, no matter how tame the terrain. It's just better for me as I get up in years. ;)
 
Honestly, I think the Judge is a good idea for snakes. Timber rattlers and copperheads can be aggressive at times.
I would be more concerned about 2 legged varmints and not so much about bears but I would carry the judge with 2 shotshells and 3- .45 Colt Hornady Leverevoltion rounds. These rounds do not exceed SAAMI pressures and are very accurate from my .45 revolvers. They pack a kick and should be more than adequate for black bears or 2 legged varmints.

Black bears are fairly docile but you should always be prepared in the woods. In my experience, every black bear I have encountered, except one, ran away when they sensed or saw me. The one that didn’t had 2 cubs. I did the running.:)

Another thing to consider. A Judge on your hip with fear of snakes as an excuse versus some other firearms mentioned probably wouldn’t bring as much attention from authorities. I guess that would depend upon where you are at the time.
 
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