9mm 147gr Berrys bullets...where's the load data?

[ManFromMontana]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to find load data for Berry's Bullets in 9mm. The bullets I have are 147gr TMJ and I will be using Hodgdon CFE Pistol powder.

I found that Berry's recommends 1.160 OAL, however they do not specify powder charge for that load. I cannot find it anywhere for CFE Pistol.

Do I use the load data for Hornady XTP 147gr HP?

Any help greatly appreciated

 

[Walkalong]

According to Berrys latest FAQ you can, but work it up carefully and take the OAL you are using vs the data into account. They can take the velocity just fine.

 

[N555]

If berry's didn't publish any I would probably start with speer gold dot 147gr data.
The xtp is jacketed and has a boat tail and seems to sit deep down in the case compared to other 147gr bullets I have loaded.

 

[reddog81]

Hodgdons website has data for a 145 grain lead RN bullet with CFE and the data is almost the same as it is for the 147 grain XTP. I’d use data from either of those.

 

[AJC1]

This is 100% a pressure limited problem. Normally berry's is speed limimited but that is nothing the case here unless your using a carbine and then it just might. I always recommend hs-6 and Silhouette in these senerios because their temperament is well suited to the task.

 

[tmd16556]

That two things to worry about are pressure and length. I make sure the bullet base is seated at the same depth in the case as published data. I typically use Speer tmj as a starting point since they tend to have similar profiles, and it was one of my first manuals. I just calculate the length difference and set oal to something between the max length Berry’s publishes and the minimum based on the base depth in case from the load data. I’m also not pushing the bleeding edge of power with plated bullets. The lightest load that is hot enough to run clean and cycle and group well is all I care for.

 

[lordpaxman]

You should do a plunk test first for your guns, and determine what the Max COL would be. Then decide on a COL you’ll use, less than that and will still fit the mag and feed well.
I’d use the Hodgdon start data for the 147 XTP, but not at their 1.100”, something longer just because the bullet OALs are probably different.

 

[LiveLife]

Berry's Bullets in 9mm ... 147gr TMJ ... Hodgdon CFE Pistol powder

FYI, TMJ (Total Metal Jacket) is a Speer registered trademark originally owned by parent company Alliant Techsystems (ATK) but now owned by Vista Outdoor - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/alliant.870830/page-3#post-11559838

TMJ, like Gold Dot HP (Also Speer registered trademark) is thick plated bullet on par with gilding metal thickness of jacketed bullets which is .015"+ that can be driven to full jacketed load data - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ng-at-25-50-yards.808446/page-3#post-10470195


This is what Berry's Manufacturing says about plated bullets - https://www.berrysmfg.com/faq#FAQ6

• Load data containing bullet descriptions such as Plated (P,) Berry's Bullet (BERB,) Total Metal Jacket (TMJ,) Copper Plated (CP,) or CPJ (Copper Plated Jacket,) refers to plated bullet data.

• Berry's max recommended velocity is not exceeded. (This info is displayed on bullet boxes and product webpages.)
  • Standard Plate Bullets Max Velocity: 1,250 fps.
  • Thick-Plate Bullets (TP) Max Velocity: 1,500 fps.

• Berry's Mfg sizes our ... 9mm ... a thousandth larger [.356"] than the standard FMJ round diameter [.355"] ... our bullet is constructed out of a soft lead and then plated with copper ... plated bullet pressure curve resembles that of the hard cast or lead bullets.

Over the decades, as indicated by Berry's MFG, I have used lead load data for Berry's regular plated bullets with good results and jacketed load data for Berry's thick plated (TP) bullets with good results. I have found if I pushed Berry's regular plated bullets past mid-range jacketed load data, accuracy started to suffer.

I found that Berry's recommends 1.160 OAL

This is what Berry's MFG says about OAL/COL - https://www.berrysmfg.com/faq#FAQ6

• Cartridge Overall Lengths (COL) are found in the load data being used.

Since we load for pistols that must feed from magazines, Max OAL should be determined first using the barrel "plunk test" and then next, Working OAL determined by feeding dummy rounds (No powder, no primer) from the magazine and releasing the slide without riding it (Plunk test in the link) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/seating-length-in-9-mm-1911.916243/#post-12557040

Do I use the load data for Hornady XTP 147gr HP?

Keep in mind that Berry's sizes their 9mm bullets slightly larger on par with lead bullets of .356", which increases pressure.

I am assuming you are using this Berry's regular plated RN bullet rated for 1250 fps - https://www.berrysmfg.com/product/bp-9mm-356-147gr-rn

Here are available load data from Hodgdon and Speer - https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

• 9mm 147 gr Hornady XTP CFE Pistol COL 1.100" Start 3.7 gr (864 fps) - Max 4.2 gr (963 fps)
• 9mm 145 gr ACME Coated RN CFE Pistol COL 1.150" Start 3.6 gr (867 fps) - Max 4.3 gr (1,001 fps)

• 9mm 147 gr Speer TMJ FN CFE Pistol COL 1.130" Start 4.1 gr (897 fps) - Max 4.6 gr (980 fps) - https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/9mm_Luger__147_rev1.pdf

Since 9mm lead/plated bullet weights can vary around 1 gr, I would reference Hodgdon's ACME coated lead load data for your Berry's regular plated bullet initial powder work up as you can always go higher.

 

[NMexJim]

Here's a snip from Hornady's Reloading Data. Note max vel is 963 which should do ya just fine.

 

[ManFromMontana]

Thanks for the useful replies everyone. I was hoping it would be a bit more straightforward, but I'll figure it out.
I think I will start with the Speer data, which shows 4.1 grains of CFE Pistol to start, with a Max charge of 4.6. Although Speer says it should be 1.130 OAL (with FP bullets), I'll keep the Berry's recommended OAL of 1.160 for RN and maybe figure in the difference between bullet lengths if need be. Even at the max charge of 4.6, it is still well below max velocity. I'm a bit concerned with the pressure due the differing bullet diameters, but I'll take that into account as I work upwards (if I do).

At least I have a place to start.
Again, thanks for the help everyone.

 

[roval]

here's a video on your exact combo. it's within load parameters. it shot well.

 

[ManFromMontana]

Thank you roval!

 

[Rule3]

https://www.berrysmfg.com/faq

Where can I find load data for your bullets?
Load data from any load manual or website can be used. Full-metal jacketed, lead bullet, or plated bullet load data can be used as long as the following standards are adhered to:

• The data contains the correct grain weight of bullet.
• Berry's max recommended velocity is not exceeded. (This info is displayed on bullet boxes and product webpages.)
  • Standard Plate Bullets Max Velocity: 1,250 fps.
  • Thick-Plate Bullets (TP) Max Velocity: 1,500 fps.
• Do not over-crimp the bullet. Crimping so tight that bullet deformation occurs, or plating is separated causing visible exposure of the lead core will cause tumbling, key-holing, and reduced accuracy.

Load data containing bullet descriptions such as Plated (P,) Berry's Bullet (BERB,) Total Metal Jacket (TMJ,) Copper Plated (CP,) or CPJ (Copper Plated Jacket,) refers to plated bullet data.

Cartridge Overall Lengths (COL) are found in the load data being used. DO NOT EXCEED SAAMI MAX COL SPECS.

For SAAMI MAX COL specs please click HERE.

Here are websites with load data information:

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

http://www.accuratepowder.com/load-data/

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

Buyers and users assume all risk, responsibility and liability whatsoever for any and all injuries (including death), losses or damages to persons or property (including consequential damages), arising from the use of any product or data, whether or not occasioned by seller’s negligence or based on strict liability or principles of indemnity or contribution. It is the buyer's responsibility to educate themselves in safety standards associated with handloading ammunition.

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[9mmepiphany]

owned by parent company Alliant Techsystems (ATK)

Learned something today...always wondered what ATK stood for

 

[Metal God]

I just loaded up a bunch of 147gr platted HP from Rainer bullets and CFE pistol . My charge is 4gr even . I however seat way deeper at 1.080 likely do to the HP