9mm 1911 vs. CZ 75B SA

Which would you select for a bullseye target pistol?

  • CZ 75 SA Target

    Votes: 58 61.7%

  • STI Trojan 1911 (9mm)

    Votes: 29 30.9%

  • Don't like either of these.

    Votes: 7 7.4%
  • Total voters
    94
  • Poll closed .
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I own both a CZ 75B & D and the STI Trojan 9mm. The Trojan has a ramped barrel and so far in the last year has eaten everything, (about 2500 rounds). Right out of the box, the STI is the best shooting 9mm I own, Glock G34 next Colt MK IV Series 70 9mm and the CZs a ways down the list. I have shot an SP01 CZ from Angus' shop and it was unbelievable but at around $1400 the Trojan would better for less money. I have both the Standard full length guide rod and the Recoilmaster, I prefer the latter. I mainly use the STI Trojan for USPSA matches, along with my Glock G34 and G35 .40S&W. I would not hesitate buying a Trojan in any caliber, if you can find one. What is the lead time from Angus' shop? 20-30 weeks? My STI Custom Shop pistol took 19.
 
It's fascinating to hear the wide range of opinions I'm getting about the 9mm 1911... everything from "potentially problematic" (my paraphrasing) to "the best shooting 9mm I own." I'm hardly seeing a single negative comment about the CZ. Whether this suggests that the CZ really is better for 9mm (it currently has over a 2:1 lead in my poll), or just represents "fanboyism" as marine 97-03 puts it, is the big question.

I'm sure plenty of people are just voting for the CZ because they own one and have brand loyalty to it (the same with the 1911), but I'm paying particular attention to people who tell me they have actually shot both of the guns that I mentioned in my OP, and therefore can semi-objectively compare the two. Comments by people who have only shot one of them are still welcome nonetheless.
 
I'm sure plenty of people are just voting for the CZ because they own one and have brand loyalty to it
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Probably correct. There are a lot more CZ's floating around than 9mm 1911's. If you were comparing a 45cal 1911 to a CZ 97, you would see the results favoring the 1911.

That said, I own 3 CZ 9mm's and a BHP. Also have 2 1911's, but they are 45's. Will someday have a 1911 9mm, probably an STI or RIA. Since you like the feel of the BHP and since you are only shooting for fun, to me, it sounds like the STI is what you would want. Although the CZ has its own similarities to the BHP also. Nothing wrong with the CZ's, I love all mine, and would buy more if I had extra cash on hand. I am sure that have favor one over the other. Go with your gut and buy the one you think you want. What ever you get can be easily sold or traded if you don't like it.
 
don't get me wrong...cz,s are very good.....but on the poll it was against a STI 1911.....STI are several thousand dallars.......cz are great but gimme a break we all have our favorite brand...model ...but were comparing one of the Alpha & Omega 1911's to a cz.....And last I checked cz wasn't making any guns in the 2000$ range...
 
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don't get me wrong...cz,s are very good.....but on the poll it was against a STI 1911.....STI are several thousand dallars.......cz are great but gimme a break we all have our favorite brand...model ...but were comparing one of the Alpha & Omega 1911's to a cz.....And last I checked cz wasn't making any guns in the 2000$ range...
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I think you overlooked that my poll was for a very specific model of CZ: the SA Target, which is custom-tuned and has an MSRP of US$1182. The STI Trojan's MSRP is US$1110. So they are very comparably priced, and a fair comparison to make.
 
Probably correct. There are a lot more CZ's floating around than 9mm 1911's. If you were comparing a 45cal 1911 to a CZ 97, you would see the results favoring the 1911.

That said, I own 3 CZ 9mm's and a BHP. Also have 2 1911's, but they are 45's. Will someday have a 1911 9mm, probably an STI or RIA. Since you like the feel of the BHP and since you are only shooting for fun, to me, it sounds like the STI is what you would want. Although the CZ has its own similarities to the BHP also. Nothing wrong with the CZ's, I love all mine, and would buy more if I had extra cash on hand. I am sure that have favor one over the other. Go with your gut and buy the one you think you want. What ever you get can be easily sold or traded if you don't like it.
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Thanks, Viking499, your points are well-taken. As for selling it if I don't like my choice... I did say earlier that I would probably do that if I didn't like my choice, but in reality, I would probably just keep it and add it to my growing collection. :cool: One can never have too many guns.

I wish there was a way to design a poll like this and get more objective responses (e.g., to only accept responses from people who can attest that they have actually fired both guns in the poll), but the responses I'm getting are still interesting, and I'll take them for what they're worth.
 
I have owned a 9mm 75B SA (just the basic one, not a souped-up target version) for a number of years. It is one of the most reliable and fun to shoot pistols I've ever had or shot. It fits me like it was made from a mould of my hand.

A friend of mine bought a 9mm STI Trojan about 18 months ago. It is very accurate, very well made, and is among the nicest feeling pistols I've handled.

It took a year to get it to run reliably - as in, it would jam 2 or more times per magazine. I don't remember if it was 1 or 2 trips back to the factory, but it did go back, and is on its third extractor. Whatever is different about this one did the trick, and it runs perfectly with factory or handloaded ammunition.

He's happy now, but it was always embarrassing to my friend to go shooting with me. His $1100 pistol would not run or hang with my out of the box $400 CZ, or a GLOCK, or a Beretta. The STI is probably a bit more accurate than my CZ, but ... I would have gotten rid of it, and cussed myself for wasting money and time with it.
 
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A friend of mine bought a 9mm STI Trojan about 18 months ago. It is very accurate, very well made, and is among the nicest feeling pistols I've handled.

It took a year to get it to run reliably - as in, it would jam 2 or more times per magazine. I don't remember if it was 1 or 2 trips back to the factory, but it did go back, and is on its third extractor. Whatever is different about this one did the trick, and it runs perfectly with factory or handloaded ammunition.
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Thanks for that info, sixgunner455. Potential reliability issues seem like a common comment on the 9mm 1911. I can see why a lot of people are not fans of them in that caliber. Since I would not be using the gun for anything but target shooting, it's not a danger concern, but it sure would be a major nuisance to spend $1000 or more on a gun that doesn't shoot perfectly out of the box.
 
The thing about the reliability of the 9mm 1911 that I don't understand is that they have been around since just after WWII. You would think that it would be doped out by now how to build one that will run.
 
The thing about the reliability of the 9mm 1911 that I don't understand is that they have been around since just after WWII. You would think that it would be doped out by now how to build one that will run.
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I know, right? How long does it typically take for other new gun designs to work out most of their bugs... a year? Two? I guess it makes a big difference when a gun is designed around a caliber from the ground up, as opposed to being adapted to something it was not designed to shoot.
 
Although I don't own either I've shot both.

At the Rent-A-Gun range where I'm a member and occasional part time RO they have a couple of Trojans in 9mm. Both are used a LOT and with whatever ammo they can buy for cheap by the pallet. The only time that they get fussy is if the oil has been totally shot out of them or they don't get cleaned often enough. And since they get shot a LOT this has happened to me on the line often enough to notice. But the sort of ammo count and neglect we're talking about to get to that stage is just not going to occur with a single owner/shooter. I'd say that the Tojan is as reliable a gun as you're going to find anywhere and is going to eat any sort of ammo. Also the times I've shot it I found it easy to shoot as tight or tighter groups than many other guns.

The CZ 75b SA belonged to a shooting buddy and I only put one magazine through it. But being SA only the lost movement was tuned out of it and I found the trigger to be very 1911ish other than being a hinged trigger as opposed to a sliding trigger. I can't comment on reliabilty since it isn't mine. But at one event the owner did suffer a failure that put him out of the action for the day. SOmething had come adrift or broke internally. But he uses it as his main gun for IDPA and shoots a lot. And guns ARE mechanical so one failure on a well used gun is hardly an epidemic of failures. My own two CZ's have been the epitomy of reliability as have thousands of others.

Which would I get? I'd lean towards the 1911 platform if I were going to shoot purely slow fire bullseye. I would go that way because the steps for further tuning the trigger pull and accurizing a 1911 slide and barrel are far better known by more gunsmiths. So it's possible that such work could be done for a little cheaper than paying for Angus' group, or Angus himself, to do the same sort of thing on a CZ.

But out of the box with no intention to modify them? It would be a toss up for me. Although I don't own either I recall that they both shot nicely with great triggers.

But for pure bullseye the adjustable sight is pretty much a must have so as to deal with minor load POI issues as you alter your reload recipe or just buy new batches of ammo over time. So since the Trojan comes with the adjustable I'd say it gets the nod.

But if I were the one looking for a pure bullseye semi auto I'd have to click on the "None of the Above" option. Some months back I got to shoot an STI Rangemaster in .45acp. I've shot a few various 1911's but none of them have ever shot as tightly and as consistently as that Rangemaster. I shot three magazines and right from the get go my group sizes were significantly smaller than anything I can shoot with my other semis. The groups I shot were only matched by my revolvers on a good day. Examining the gun showed that it was "Match" tight on the slide and barrel with zero sign of slop or rattle yet a smooth slide action. It's what a Trojan with an accurizing job would be for the same or more money than buying a Rangemaster. And it comes in 9mm to boot. It was truly an amazing gun with a match grade light and creep free trigger right out of the box. If you could see your way clear to dump another $400 into the budget you would not be dissapointed.
 
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Thanks BCRider, that was very useful.

As for the rear sight on the CZ 75 SA Target, I just got a reply back from CZ Custom telling me that the rear sight (a Champion) on that model is elevation-adjustable. I assume it's technically windage-adjustable too, but requiring a punch and hammer rather than a screwdriver.

So I remain undecided, but these responses from people here are helping.
 
I've owned a CZ75 SA Target for about a year-and-a-half. I use it for local IDPA matches in ESP class. I've never had a problem with it. Trigger is wonderful -- might even make some 1911's blush!

I also owned an STI TargetMaster (6" bbl) in 9mm. I bought it from Brazos and had their trigger job/reliability package done. Another wonderful, no-problem gun.

I also own a CZ75 P-01. The CZ grips and other ergonomics really feel good. I also own an STI Sentry in .45.

You won't regret either decision.
 
Lothar, I added a last comment about the STI Rangemaster. You could well have been typing your last reponse and missed it. Check out the last paragraph in my post.
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That's exactly what happened, BCRider, thanks for bringing it to my attention. Thanks for the info on the STI Rangemaster. I've bookmarked the product info page on that gun, and it looks like a really good one. It's really outside of my price range though--I don't want to spend more than about $1100 for a fully-tuned target pistol that needs no further work to make it ideal, so that limits me (as far as guns that I've researched) to the CZ 75 SA Target, and maybe the STI Trojan (and the jury is still out on how comfortable I am with the anticipated reliability of the latter).

If I could bring myself to spring for a higher price point (a considerably higher one at that), I'd probably go with a Sig X-Five. Now there's a sweet target pistol, and was a pleasure to shoot.

I like the quote in your signature. It's noteworthy to mention though that Indiana Jones was using a Browning Hi-Power in that scene in Nepal where Marion's bar was burning down, and Elliott Ness (played by Kevin Costner) was using a 1911 in The Untouchables. :cool:
 
I've owned a CZ75 SA Target for about a year-and-a-half. I use it for local IDPA matches in ESP class. I've never had a problem with it. Trigger is wonderful -- might even make some 1911's blush!

I also owned an STI TargetMaster (6" bbl) in 9mm. I bought it from Brazos and had their trigger job/reliability package done. Another wonderful, no-problem gun.

I also own a CZ75 P-01. The CZ grips and other ergonomics really feel good. I also own an STI Sentry in .45.

You won't regret either decision.
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Ah, good, one of the few who have actually used the exact customized CZ model that I am considering! Thanks for those observations. I assume your trigger still has the firing pin block in it?

Would you mind describing the rear sights to me? I'm told that they are Champion sights, but am not clear one which model exactly. Are they one of the ones shown here?...

http://www.theshootersbox.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=128_144
 
I don't know about the firing pin block ... whatever the CZ Custom shop did. The rear sights are "Novak" as described on the CZ page:

http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/sa-target/

Sorry, I don't have a from-the-rear picture to show.

I also replaced the aluminum grips that came with it for standard CZ rubberized grips. They fit my hand just a little better. If I didn't say it before, I really like this one!
 
Lothar - A 9mm 1911 is a finicky gun. Don't just take my word for it: This guy knows what he's talking about.
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The range guns I mentioned would seem to dispell that idea. Other than getting sticky from neglect now and then they've proven to be highly reliable. And the neglect is easily remedied with a couple of drops of oil. Maybe Springfield has some issues but that doesn't make ALL 9mm 1911's into problem guns.
 
Thanks for all the opinions, everybody, and for the links. Keep them coming. I'm becoming more and more wary of the potential reliability issues of a 9mm 1911, though I wonder if certain brands have eliminated that concern. I have no such concerns about a CZ.

Reliability is just one of three major factors in my decision though, ergonomics and accuracy being the other two of greatest importance to me. If the ergos on the CZ are anything like the Browning Hi-Power, I'll be very happy with that, so accuracy may be the main determinant. Hopefully I'll be able to rent one next week and see for myself.
 
Thought about it some more

From your original post ...

"The intended use of the gun is strictly for slow-fire bullseye target shooting. It will not be a home-defense or carry weapon. I don't compete, so it's just for personal fun. What's fun to me is getting the tightest possible groups on slow-fire targets, and occasional steel shooting."

If this is really what you want to do, then there are better choices than either the CZ75 SA Target or the STI Trojan. I would highly recommend the STI TargetMaster for this kind of activity. It has a 6" bull barrel and mine was impressively accurate if I did my job correctly.

Unless one takes the time to lock each gun up in a bench rest to test for accuracy, I think we're wandering into nit-picking land.

As for "reliability", I never had issues with my TargetMaster (nor have I had issues with my STI Sentry or the CZ). I presume you're concerned about alleged 9mm 1911's being "finicky". I'd venture to say that in fast-moving competition shooting, you might have a point. However a friend of mine who shoots IDPA is qualified as ESP Expert with a 9mm 1911. He's close to making Master. I would think he'd dispell the notion that 9mm 1911's are problematic.

Bottom line is try to handle and shoot both. Consider other options to match up better with your stated intention. Nobody wants to spend their money recklessly. Good for you in doing lots of research -- I did that and have not had any regrets.

Good luck!
 
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