9mm 1911...

[trigga]

My dad wanted a 1911 in 38 super but i told him i load 9mm luger and the 38 super was a little more expensive (brass) to load and find. besides i told him to get a .45 acp which i don't load but have dies for, but he didn't like the 45 round. too big he said. about a year or so ago he bought a used 1911. he said it was a 9mm and brought it over for me to see. sure it said 9mm 38 on the slide. i tried some 9mm luger dummy rounds in it and seemed fine. he had ask for some of my reloads so i gave him a pack (100) of my 124gr plated RN reloads.

he went to the range and said they all fired fine. when he needed more i gave him some of my other reloads i wasn't going to load anymore, the 115gr plated HP. he told me that these didn't feed really well and the primers were blowing (firing pin putting a hole in the primer). it was odd because i loaded 500 of these and were fired through four different handguns with zero problems. this was also my last 100 pack i gave him.

just recently i happen to inspect his gun. upon closer inspection it is a llama 1911. with some research i have determined it is a 9mm largo. and yes the 9mm luger does appear a bit shot when seated in the mag. he's been shooting the wrong ammo the whole time. kind of like shooting 380 auto in a 9mm luger. i don't plan on loading this but will the 9mm luger dies work for the 9mm largo? can't seem to find any specs for the 9mm largo and this round is not that popular. i'll let him know as soon as he comes back from vacation. should've just gotten the 45 acp i tell you.

 

[trigga]

wow this ammo is expensive, hard to find and mostly old surplus. honestly if it were me i would just sell it and get something cheaper to shoot. i don't think he paid that much for it to start with. don't even think it's worth finding brass and reloading.

 

[splattergun]

Brass price ain't so bad for new Starline. $0.19-.021 at Midway. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/941233451/starline-reloading-brass-9mm-largo
They will load many times and will amortize to almost nothing. As long as he doesn't lose them.

 

[Reloadron]

Interesting read:

Llama firearms are produced by the firm of Gabilondo y Cia located in Elgoibar, Spain. In 1931 Gabilonda Y Cia decided to do its part in revitalizing the reputation of the lagging Spanish firearms industry. To this end they began making almost exact copies of the Colt/Browning M1911 design. The name Llama (pronounced Yama) was chosen for this line of pistols to separate it from earlier production of 'Ruby style' pistols of WWI vintage. The Ruby pistols did not have the quality control they needed and as a result earned a very bad reputation for Spanish firearms and Gabilondo y Cia. The new line of Llama pistols was produced in 9mm Long, .38 ACP and .45 ACP. These pistols were such faithful reproductions of the M1911 that some if not all parts were interchangeable with Colt/Browning M1911s. There were several variations on the design, one of which was the "Extra". The designation "Extra" was very simplistic, there was simply more pistol (a little extra, if you will). The barrel was 1/2" longer and the slide 3/8" longer. This produces an extra 1/8" barrel protrusion from the slide. A normal M1911 slide and barrel can usually be fitted to these pistols without modification. This would make the Llama "Extra" the original 'Long Slide .45'! Other variations on the basic Llama pistols included the deletion of the grip safety and changing of the extractor from an internal to external extractor, these however do not appear on Llama "Extra" pistols that I have examined. If you know of a good reference source that gives good solid data on the Llama Extra, please let me know.

A friend of mine had one and we actually fitted a Colt 1911 Series 70 9mm Parabellum slide and barrel to it. That science experiment was about 25 years ago and would not be at all practical today.

9mm Luger, 9x21, 9x23 and 38 Super dies will all work to load the Largo. You will also find some load data in the link. I would do as splattergun suggest and grab a few hundred cases from Starline which should keep your dad shooting for years.

Ron

 

[rfwobbly]

• 9mm Largo is technically 9x23mm, as opposed to 9mm Luger which is technically 9x19mm. So the chamber in his gun is 4mm longer than the ammo you gave him.

• You can use all your components to load his ammo, but he will need special 9x23 brass and dies. When you buy this brass, you'll wish you had gotten him the 38 Super instead, because this stuff is very expensive.

• Hornady makes a 9x23 die set. It is probably not stocked and would be special order. Graf & Sons got a set for me very quickly.

• There are two versions of 9x23 and you must be extremely careful !! There is 9x23 Largo, a relatively low pressure, pre-WWII Spanish cartridge. (This is what your dad has.) There is also 9x23 Winchester which is a modern, extremely high pressure cartridge. Both are identical in every physical dimension. You can use the more common 9x23 Win brass to load your Largo. However, you MUST NOT fire any 9x23 Win ammo in the Largo gun. The pressures of the 9x23 Win cartridge are about twice that of the Largo and the results will be disastrous.

• If this were my dad, owing to the warning above and the interchangeable cartridges, I would buy him a real 1911 chambered in 9x19 Luger and confiscate the Largo gun. The likelihood of him buying or being sold the wrong cartridges is simply too great.

Hope this helps.

 

[gojuice101]

Yes, you can use the 9mm Luger dies to load 9mm Largo. There are other types of brass that you can use as well, but it requires a bit of modification.

Good luck with the endeavor. Personally, I like the Largo round. I've been looking for a Star 9mm Largo for a long time, so I've been setup to load it ahead of time.

 

[mstreddy]

OP, I have one of those Llama 9MM/38 guns. My sample is marked 9MM/38 on the left side of the slide and CAL 38 Super Automatic on the right side. Check your father's gun for the markings on all sides.
It may be a 38 Super, not 9MM Largo.

I also have another Llama model that is clearly marked as 38 Super Automatic without the 9MM/38 markings.

 

[trigga]

OP, I have one of those Llama 9MM/38 guns. My sample is marked 9MM/38 on the left side of the slide and CAL 38 Super Automatic on the right side. Check your father's gun for the markings on all sides.
It may be a 38 Super, not 9MM Largo.

I also have another Llama model that is clearly marked as 38 Super Automatic without the 9MM/38 markings.

no there are no markings on the other side of the slide. there is a mark on the barrel which is like a circle with a P inside it. don't know what that means. thanks for the info guys. I'll see if he wants to invest in some brass.

 

[mstreddy]

That mark on the barrel is likely from the proof test. Are there any other markings, such as model? Some of the Llamas models are marked as Mark I, IV, etc...
As you mentioned above, they don't sell for much, and it might be better to sell it, if you're not going to reload for it.
I do reload, so 38 Super is not expensive to feed that way. The Llamas are pretty good guns overall. Depending on the model, they may not be 100% M1911 clones.

 

[jmorris]

I would just get out the Brownells catalog and pick out a 9x19 barrel.