There was once upon a time a TV show called "Cheers" that was about a bar that had a 'regular' named Cliff Claven who was a postal worker that thought he knew about everything.LOL no ..... I'm assuming there is a funny story that goes along with that .357
9mm I'm wrong and never knew it :D
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watson
Member
You know marb i heard somethig just the other day that you reminded me of. Somone told me... (and i don't know how factual it is). That the Isrealis are a big fan of .22.... Appereantly when they have somone rioting and threatening terrorism in a public scene they find the leader of the rabble rousers and shoot him in the JUNK with a .22 . I don't know about you but that would take the fight out of most groups of people, you know they will be thinking awww snap I don't want that to be me next. Not well it's only a 22. Just food for thought
FIVETWOSEVEN
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They use a 9mm now I believe.
...and of course there are many who feel the 9mm is good if it's all you can handle...but a caliber starting with the number 4 is better medicine. As far as shooting "fast and accurately" with any gun, it's hard to come back to the keyboard from a place one has never been.
I carry a .25 acp and a .32 S&W-L at times and I have never been dragged into being asked about it's puny power except on an online forum (but you'll have that there).
Shot placement shot placement shot placement...period.
Regardless of caliber, just because your carrying a 10mm doesn't mean it's ok not to be proficient with it.
Shot placement shot placement shot placement...period.
Regardless of caliber, just because your carrying a 10mm doesn't mean it's ok not to be proficient with it.
Massad used .22s in Europe to get the guys who killed the Israeli athletes; or so the book I read said. Used head shots when possible and bullets we not traceable due to fragmentation. Happened many years ago and the book was read a long time ago but that is what I remember.
MCgunner
Member
Well, there are "experts" everywhere. Most of 'em have never shot anything, but their mouth off. So, take the "advice" for what you paid for it.
Yea, I know how that is. I work with a guy that swears that he knows everything about guns. So we get in a conversation, and he ends up asking me what type of ammo I shoot at the range with my 45. So I tell him, Federal 230gr 45 auto FMJ. And he asks me "why would you use FMJ, that's the best defensive ammo there is?" And I really hate getting into the whole caliber/FMJ or JHP argument, but I could tell he really had no idea. So I tried to explain to him my reasoning behind using HP's. And he thought I was crazy and starts telling me his reasoning for using FMJ (not sure if he ever REALLY owned a gun). So I think yall may have had these conversations before...... Very annoying
So, do you use FMJ or JHP? Your message does not make clear who uses which. Not that it really matters...
I get the same responses, BFC, ever since I recently went back to carrying my
Glock 33. When I mention that i'm more accurate with the 357 Sig than I am with any other round, including the 9mm, some people can't believe it.
I'm an old .357 magnum fan and could always shoot it better than anything else. When I shot the Sig for the first time , I took to it like a shark in water. It's probably more mental than anything else but it shoots for me just like the old magnum round.
jimmygrish
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Now that was profound but oh so true!
Lonestar49
Member
Here we go, "again" - deal with it - LOL
...
Once again it's time for the puppet show -
Ls
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Once again it's time for the puppet show -
Ls
Carter
Member
I think 9mm is one of those rounds that suffers from the reputation of the fmj performance. The HP's are great, but that seems to be over looked by a lot of people. Then there is also that American mentality that bigger is better. Big houses, big cars, big calibers. My fiancee's brother called my 9mm cute, because for him .40 and .45 are the only options (mostly .45). He has the same opinion of the .223 (its cute) and that .308 is better. He's not insulting about it, but thats just his preference and 9mm just doesn't do it for him.
If I could afford to shoot as much .40 as I could 9mm I would probably carry a .40, but that doesn't mean I'm not comfortable with my 9mm.
On a side note, I think its funny how in old movies the 9mm luger would shoot through 4 people and kill them, but todays 9mm bullets are a joke to "serious shooters". The movie reference is Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.
If I could afford to shoot as much .40 as I could 9mm I would probably carry a .40, but that doesn't mean I'm not comfortable with my 9mm.
On a side note, I think its funny how in old movies the 9mm luger would shoot through 4 people and kill them, but todays 9mm bullets are a joke to "serious shooters". The movie reference is Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
Without such preconceived notions, this is why women often outshoot them.
MyGreenGuns
Member
^If technology gets that far I hope they make GREEN ones!
Besides, The debate will be over "energy cell" vs "micro-fusion pack" lol^I'm SOOOO gonna use this!
^Weren't they using ball ammo?
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My brother used to bug me because I bought a 9mm instead of .45acp like him. I shut him up with a 'fast as you can shoot' shooting challenge at 50ft. All my rounds were centermass, NOT all his round hit the target (we counted). It doesn't matter if you have a bigger caliber, if you cant hit anything with it. (+1 to all shot placement arguments!)
My other "expert" is my uncle. He always gives me grief by telling me my carry piece will fail because its not spotlessly clean. I wear it (nearly) every day, his guns havent seen the light of day in 2 years. He doesn't see how that makes a difference.
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Carter
Member
Yes, but it was just a comment on how the 9mm was portrayed then as to the bad rep it gets from some people now.
Lawdawg45
Member
Pardon my repetition, but I'll share a personal story. Understanding that the .40 cal was developed in response to complaints surrounding the 9mm, many LE agencies have made the jump including my son's department. He was involved in a fatal PAS where he fired 5 times point blank at center mass with Federal JHP's, and the suspect still had to be pulled off of my son. In perspective, my son had been on a homicide call a week earlier where a man killed his neighbor with a .25 auto at 20 feet, and dropped him like a sack of hammers with 2 shots. Nothing is etched in stone and in my later years I have stowed my "go big or go home" speech.
Until the internet came along I was doing everything wrong:
Carrying the wrong handgun chambered in the wrong caliber.
Using the wrong holster, magazines and ammo.
Loading on the wrong equipment, using the wrong dies, powder and projectiles.
My rifles are from the wrong manufacturer and topped with the absolute worst optics available.
I even drive the wrong truck.
I thought I had everything right, but came back to the internet and learned all that was now wrong.
I hope to have everything right (again) before the end of the year. If not for the 138,333 experts here I would be completely lost.
Carrying the wrong handgun chambered in the wrong caliber.
Using the wrong holster, magazines and ammo.
Loading on the wrong equipment, using the wrong dies, powder and projectiles.
My rifles are from the wrong manufacturer and topped with the absolute worst optics available.
I even drive the wrong truck.
I thought I had everything right, but came back to the internet and learned all that was now wrong.
I hope to have everything right (again) before the end of the year. If not for the 138,333 experts here I would be completely lost.
22_Shooter
Member
Nice shooting, no doubt. But unless an attacker is standing completely still, and remains completely still until he's done shooting...........that show of skill is nothing more than trick shooting. It sure doesn't prove that .32ACP is a recommended carry caliber. Especially considering not everyone has that type of accuracy.
I know, I'm being a Debbie Downer.
watson
Member
Amen to that lawdawg I think most of us that do alot of firearms related reading will each have a story like that. IE one that comes to my mind is the whatever state trooper (I can't remember the state). He shot this MASSIVE man 4 times center mass with his then issue .357 the guy was taken aback but not taken out. The suspect had a hideout .22lr and one shot that hit the troopers arm and traveled up hit his heart and the trooper died. There are no certainties in a gunfight. Pick a caliber that you can shoot fast and accurate. That is all.Pardon my repetition, but I'll share a personal story. Understanding that the .40 cal was developed in response to complaints surrounding the 9mm, many LE agencies have made the jump including my son's department. He was involved in a fatal PAS where he fired 5 times point blank at center mass with Federal JHP's, and the suspect still had to be pulled off of my son. In perspective, my son had been on a homicide call a week earlier where a man killed his neighbor with a .25 auto at 20 feet, and dropped him like a sack of hammers with 2 shots. Nothing is etched in stone and in my later years I have stowed my "go big or go home" speech.
Oh one more thing lawdawg I have to do this
"Listen here Mr. Kansas Lawdawg, law dont go around here. Savvy??!!"
Smaug
Member
Reminds me of the one story where a guy had convinced himself how weak 22s are, and decided to use one to shoot a hole in the wall to run a cable, and killed his wife in the next room.
Magnumitis can be deadly if it sinks in enough.
Magnumitis can be deadly if it sinks in enough.
SwampWolf
Member
And I'd rather see a "tricked out 1911", cal. 45 ACP, in trained hands than any .22 in "capable hands" or otherwise if my life or that of my loved ones, are at stake.
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