Change of mind from .45 to 9mm

[Pax Jordana]

Depends, of course

I found the switch was easiest because I couldn't trust my life to my 1911 (it's older than god and I can't quite make it work 100%).

Bought a Kel-Tec, it's easy to hide. Sometimes I even carry a J-Frame in 38spl. If I honestly felt I was going into harm's way, I would go to the trouble of carrying an XD (certainly takes care of capacity problems).

In fact, what's the deal with capacity? Carry more mags.

--PJ

 

[Glockfan.45]

15 rounds of 9mm+P Gold Dots is nothing to laugh at in a package just a little thicker, but overall smaller that a 7 round 1911. While .45 is still my go to caliber for self defence I wouldnt feel outgunned with my Glock 19 loaded with the above round. 9mm+P is nearing .357sig territory as far as ballistics goes, and I have never heard anybody say .357sig was underpowered. If using 9mm for SD a good hollow point, loaded hot will do just fine.

 

[DawgFvr]

I'll take the .45 ACP anyday. Sold my glock 17 and never looked back. I now carry a 10 + 1 Taurs Millennium Pro PT145 as my main and 642 as backup. Expensive ammo? Yup. I carry Corbon DPX. My life is worth it...hang all expenses. I enjoy shooting 30.06 out of my Garand...you wont catch me downgrading to a 30-30 cuz of expense. Sheeeesh!

 

[longeyes]

In fact, what's the deal with capacity? Carry more mags.

Good idea, certainly, but in a real encounter it is unlikely you are going to have time to change magazines. In situations with multiple attackers you will be very glad you have enough rounds for follow-up shots and, yes, misses.

 

[Shark]

I'd take my 1911 with 8+1 of .45 and a couple of mags first, but I wouldn't feel out gunned with my G19 and a spare mag. If you don't have time to do a quick reload with a 1911, then you probably have bigger problems (i.e. lack of training, tactics or vastly superior attackers in numbers and skill) that an extra seven rounds of 9mm probably won't fix. Shoot what works best for YOU and train with it, including taking some classes and then train some more. It is shot placement that matters more than caliber - especially in handguns, which are underpowered to begin with and are meant to fight to your long gun.

 

[RevolvingCylinder]

I like both cartridges. No Glocks here though. Ever. Make my 9mm Luger a CZ-75 or a Smith & Wesson.

 

[wiskey lima 2]

What did LAPD do? So many law agencies are departing the 9 for .40 or .45 it seems.


I keep .45 for the home in a 1911, used to carry 1911 in CCW, but now CCW in .40 Glock.

 

[Hungry]

9mm and .45

Why bother?? Just get both. I carry a .45 ACP Norinco for black bears. Here in Kanada we cannot carry CCW style, but only on the range. Well, the range we shoot at is 1000 acres large and the bears (10 April 2007) have waken up from their hibernation. So I carry the Norinco .45 for defense, just 230 gr Winchester White Box FMJ and then I compete with a Norinco NP29 single stack 1911 9mm in Service Pistol matches.

My wife loves her Imbel (read: Springfield, Geneseo) 1911 9mm for competition also. I load up a bunch of Copper plated Frontier brand 115 gr. CMJ bullets behind some W231 and they exit around 1200 fps. Good enough for the paper targets we are punching.

Yup, the 9mm gets all the practice and plinking, but the .45 goes out for the business end.

Cheers,
Barney

 

[heypete]

In September, I switched from 9mm to .45 ACP, and sold my G19 and G26 in order to afford the new gun (Springfield XD-45) and a bunch of ammo.

I'm now looking to switch back, as 9mm is about 30-40% cheaper to buy in factory loads than .45 ACP -- reloading .45 is also slightly more expensive due to the greater quantity of metal needed in the bullet. I regularly carry my XD-45, and have no problems with it, but I'm looking at buying another Glock 19 for numerous reasons: cheaper ammo, cheaper and more plentiful magazines of differing capacities, and a wide variety of inexpensive spare parts that I can stock up on. That, and it's a bit smaller and can be more easily concealed when I choose not to open carry (I *heart* Arizona).

Ballistically, most pistol cartridges are quite similar...well, maybe not .25 ACP and .454 Casull, but the differences between 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP are generally not significant.

 

[DAVE RICHARDS]

About a year ago I simplified my life to just 45 and 9mm. Carry and trust either one. But I'm leaning more and more towards the 9mm. Own and have owned some superb 9mm's. Sigs, CZ's, Beretta's, Glocks, on and on. After reading alot of after action reports on shootings I'm convinced of a few things.
1.) All service caliber handguns have fantastic stops and fantastic failures to stop.
2.) All the service calibers from 9mm on up with the best JHP's out there all perform very similarly. They are more alike than different.
3.) The 9mm is the lightest recoiling of the service calibers even with +p and +P+ rounds. This makes it easier to shoot well and fast with. Multiple, well placed shots, with adaquate penetration and expansion are what stops badguys. The 9mm is the easiest to shoot fast and well. And has the most rounds in a package that can fit most hands.
4.) Ammo is cheaper and can be had anywhere in the world. Cheaper ammo, more practice. More practice better shooting. See the above.
5.) I have witnesed a few shootings. Two in my youth with .380 fmj ammo in the leg. Both hit bone. Both guys dropped immediately. Lots of pain and blood. Two with .38 snubbies. One a heart shot DRT. Second cut the jugular vein. Fell immediately and dead shortly there after. One 9mm with fmj ammo. Two in the heart, one in the head. DRT. Again hit heavy bone, the heart and support structures,neck, the head people generally drop quick. Caliber didn't matter. What it hit did.
6.) More multiple attackers scenarios going on. Meth heads and so on often take multiple shots to go down. 9mm can hold lots of bullets. Friend from work got into a situation going home to visit mom. Neighborhood had changed. Got into it with 3 gangbangers with Glock 9mm's He loved 1911's and was very good with them. Carried two back up mags. Long and short of it he got behind his car. Two of them made it to cover behind a building.
He killed one, seriously wounded another, third one ran. After the third one ran he checked his weapon. It was at slidelock with all his magazines expended. Had the last gangbanger decide to stick around he could have finished him off with his hi capacity 9mm Glock since he had no more ammo. He now carries a hicap 9mm. You can never have too much ammo!
7.) Everyone I've spoken with that has been in combat has said anything above .38 caliber is enough if you do your part. That's all any handgun is at best. Just enough.
8.) Tendonitis in the elbows limits me to about 100 rounds per session with my .45's. Can shoot 200-300 per practice session with a 9mm. Love my .45's. But now I usually carry my 229 9mm or one of it's cousins. Can shoot it faster and more accurately than anything I own. It works for me.

 

[gandog56]

Variety being the spice of life, I have the following size pistols:
.22 LR
9mm
40 S&W
.400 Cor-Bon
10mm
.357 Sig
.357 Mag (Also shoot 38 specials with it)
.44 Mag (Also fires 44 special and 44 Russian)
.44 Black Powder
.45 ACP

Hmmmmm, means I probably need a .45 Colt

 

[Checkman]

So if this thread is any type of indication (whatsoever) the 9mm isn't dead with Americans after all? Interesting.

Jeff Cooper is probably shaking his head in disgust up there.

Persoanlly I like my G19 and G26.

 

[mtbkski]

I don't know about Jeff Cooper. But the boys at Chuck Taylors's place are admitting that 9's are worth using. Great Article on the XD, but what I got a kick out of was the 3rd paragraph from the bottoom, where he says he is going to carry this personally and to teach with it. Says alot for the pistol and the 9 MM I think.

http://www.chucktaylorasaa.com/SpringfieldXD9.html

 

[Wordsmith]

If anything, I think a migration back to the 9mm is occurring. Part of it is probably because the Billary Clinton magazine capacity ban is over, but I also think that people are doing their research and realizing that modern 9mm loads aren't your daddy's 9mm Luger.

And then there are people like me who simply don't like the characteristics of the .40 S&W round and can't afford to shoot tons of .45 ACP.

And finally, like someone mentioned previously, I too have seen stops and failures to stop in all the major handgun calibers. It's hard to imagine that any of them would have turned out differently with another caliber.

 

[BBQJOE]

I switched from a LLama .45 to Kahr p9 for a couple of reasons.
First the Llama was always ejecting the rounds and hitting me in the face or the head. (No matter how loosly or tightly I held the pistol) Also it was just too much in size for my hands.
Also I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with the darn thing.
So I carry my 9mm for my carry weapon.
But my favorite plinking weapon is S&W .44mag using a heavy cowboy load.

On edit: The 9mm is much better for concealment for me.

 

[Boats]

In the first generation wundernines, the magazine capacity for 9mm pistols hovered between 13 and 15 rounds. These days the capacity in duty sized packages is between 15 and 17.

I wanted to hate my wife's new-ish S&W M&P9, but with 17+1, decent accuracy, and so far total reliability, it's becoming impossible not to like it. I personally have no problem at all relying on 17+1 147 grainers if that is what comes to hand.

She switched to 9mm a long time ago because she disliked the reloading drills with her Officer's Model.

 

[kellyj00]

I started out iwth a sig 9mm, then got a Springfield 1911 in .45, then got an XD 9mm. Plain and simple, there's not that much difference between the two.

If you don't reload, get that 9mm...don't even consider a .40 or a .45 because they're twice the price for loaded ammo. A very good friend is a '45 guy' and I'm neutral. Having shot all sorts of different pistols, and all sorts of different calibers, the difference at the back end is negligable. I've heard that stopping power is better in a .45, but who really knows? I'd imagine a 9mm JHP would stop a fella pretty good, or at least make him think "oh, %#^$!"

And that's all I'm after really, making criminals **** themselves... whether they stop or not, ehe... I'll get a 12 gauge.

 

[Chuhhuniban]

Over in the Smith & Wesson forum there's a guy named Erich who has a signature line that covers the issue pretty well: Shot placement is king, penetration is queen, and everything else is angels dancing on the heads of pins

 

[MKEITH]

Used to be a strict .45 kind of guy. Right now I am carrying a 9mm, and i love it. Went from having 15 total rounds with a extra mag to having 31.Not quite as big of a hole,but...

 

[ARTiger]

I went from a Ruger P90 to a CZ 75BD for home defense. . . I use this gun for range as well and like to practice a lot with my HD gun. WWB 9mm from WalMart is just too good to pass up . . . Not practicing any more often with the 9mm, but I do shoot a lot more at each session.

For HD duty I load with Winchester Ranger 127 gr. SXT +P+ which does not seem that far off balistically to many .357 magnum loads with great stopping reputations. 17 of those on hand is also attractive vs. 8 .45's the Ruger held.

In fact, I like the switch so much with the HD gun, I am now looking for a compact 9mm for belt carry to replace my G29 10mm.

 

[DHart]

I love .45 acp and 10mm. I reload, so cost isn't too bad. And I love the platforms I have for for .45 and 10mm (1911's). But I understand too the desire to move to platforms/calibers having much higher capacity BEFORE a reload. Spare mags are important to have, but they're a LOT less desireable than having hi cap in the gun in the first place without a reload.

I do believe that, as our friend Erich mentions, shot placement is king and penetration is queen... I'm a total believer in that. Therefore, I think even though 9mm is less potent than .40 and .45, it can be an effective defense round with the right ammo and good shot placement... add in a 17 or 18 round capacity and there's a lot to like about that. 9mm will never replace my appreciation for and use of .45 or .40 or 10mm, but I can see a 9mm hi-cap in my collection. (Right now my only nines are a PM-9 and a Hi-Power). I recently bought a S&W M&P 40 Compact which I love, so Glock 19 or an M&P full size in 9 may well be waiting in the wings for me.

 

[1man]

Just picked up my 10th 45acp and #11 is coming sometime this summer.
Like DHart said, "9mm will never replace my appreciation for and use of .40 or .45 or 10mm" same here! I carry my PM9 more than any other gun(smaller). I was thinking of getting a G26 primary off-duty piece(only to satisfy future LE Dept. Regs 9mm DAO:banghead: ) and still carry the PM9 as back-up to the G26.

 

[Trifler]

He immediately worked the slide and put a federal hydroshock through what he claimed was a perfect heart lung shot.

The dog kept moving. So he put two more through it before it stopped moving.

While I'm sure it would have been a perfect "heart lung shot" in a Human, I have to wonder if it possibly was not in this case since it was a dog. The anatomy is different not only between human and dog but there are also differences between breeds of dog. I have no clue if the Marines train dog anatomy or not. I suppose they might for the most common guard dog breeds but again I have no idea.

If he was primarily concerned with ammo they do have 12 and 14-round .45's. I've never held one, but I've read they're quite heavy when loaded though.

 

[DHart]

Trifler... I have a Springfield GI 1911 that has a hi-cap wide body frame... it holds 14 rounds! This has been an awesome 1911 for me (I have almost 30 1911's). Stone reliable, accurate, high capacity .45! Yes, it is heavier than a single stack 1911, but not so much that it bothers me in the least. Of course I don't wear it all day long either, nor would I. But I do occasionally pack it for a couple of hours here and there, mexican style, at 5 o'clock, tucked inside my jeans (no holster) while wearing a heavy gun belt... no big deal if you wear a sturdy gun belt.

 

[holycrikey]

Interesting debate. I have both a 9mm and a .45ACP, but I'd honestly go a little more for quantity over a bigger caliber.