9mm Load Development and Observations

[DMW1116]

I’m not familiar with power factors or even those powders. I’ve not had flattened primers even when running up to the top of the +P range with Silhouette though. Are they maybe just softer than normal primers. Do have more than one type to compare. Wishful thinking, I know.

 

[DMW1116]

I tried the Silhouette and HS-6 loads yesterday. Off hand shooting at 10 yards didn’t really show any differences. My Shield might prefer the HS-6 load and my M&P9 might prefer the Silhouette load. I think I’m going to try the Acme cast bullets or RMR heavy match winners next. These 9s both seem to prefer heavier or at least slower bullets.

 

[Shivahasagun]

Boy am I happy!

First time out with my 9x19 reloads and they worked great through 2 pistols and a rifle! Skill or dumb luck? Maybe a little of both?

Mixed brass and 147 gr Summit City .356 FN coated bullets. (92-6-2) OAL @1.15 and 3.0 gr Titegroup loaded with a Lee 4-hole and drum. (3 die set)

10 shots avg. 819 fps, ES 53, SD 18. (4.25 in Beretta) I fired about 80 of the 110 I'd made as my first batch. No trouble. My Beretta 16.5 in barrel carbine out of the 7 shots I ran across the chrono gave 947 fps, ES 17, SD 6! All three guns locked back on the last shot. Very soft shooting of course.

My ammo was far more accurate than new Freedom Munitions plated ammo in brass and steel case. And nearly half the price of new 147 gr 9x19.

 

[Dudedog]

I’ve got some WSF, haven’t tried it yet but the tables of relative burn rate make it look like it’s pretty similar to the N330.

3.8gr of WSF with a 147 makes a nice load around 130 PF
String: 4
Date: 7/23/2016
Time: 9:03:16 AM
Grains: 147
Hi Vel: 921
Low Vel: 873
Ave Vel: 897
Ext Spread: 48
Std Dev: 17
Berrys 147 FN 3.8 WSF
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
873 128.331 248.741
903 132.741 266.13
921 135.387 276.846
900 132.3 264.365
891 130.977 259.104

String: 5
Date: 5/14/2017
Time: 3:20:59 PM
Grains: 147
Hi Vel: 897
Low Vel: 857
Ave Vel: 876
Ext Spread: 40
Std Dev: 17
XTREME 147gr R N .357 3.7gr WSF 1.133
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
893 131.271 260.269
897 131.859 262.606
864 127.008 243.639
857 125.979 239.707
870 127.89 247.034

Name Xtreme 147 3.9 WSF 1.13
Notes N/A
Number of Shots 5
Extreme Spread 40
Average 904
Standard Deviation 15
Power Factor Average 133
Power Factor Low 130
Power Factor High 136
Shot List Index Velocity Temperature Barometric Pressure Bullet Weight Ft/Lbs Power Factor Date
Xtreme 147 3.9 WSF 1.13 1 884 147 255 130 2/11/2018 12:51
Xtreme 147 3.9 WSF 1.13 2 908 147 269 133 2/11/2018 12:51
Xtreme 147 3.9 WSF 1.13 3 916 147 274 135 2/11/2018 12:51
Xtreme 147 3.9 WSF 1.13 4 891 147 259 131 2/11/2018 12:51
Xtreme 147 3.9 WSF 1.13 5 924 147 279 136 2/11/2018 12:51

Somewhere I have some data for the RMR 147s (which I much prefer over the plated Berrys or Xtremes) but it is hiding from me at the moment....

No pressure signs on any of these.
Hodgdon data
147 GR. FMJ Winchester WSF .355" 1.169" 3.9 895 28,400 PSI 4.3 950 32,300 PSI
Start 3.9gr WSF MAX 4.3 WSF

 

[DMW1116]

I got my new batch of 147 grain XTPs in the mail. I cannot find data for them with Silhouette powder. Anyone use this combo? XTP/Silhouette/CCI 500.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I got my new batch of 147 grain XTPs in the mail. I cannot find data for them with Silhouette powder. Anyone use this combo? XTP/Silhouette/CCI 500.

The Western v8 pdf has data for Silhouette and two 147gr jacketed bullets: Remington Golden Saber and Speer TMJ-FN. The Golden Saber is an oddly shaped bullet, with a smaller diameter nose and driving band at the base, it seats shallower than most heavy JHP 9mm’s. The Speer data will be close. The XTP is more conical than hemispheric in shape; but use Hornady’s COAL recommended for seating, not the Speer, and I would consider the starting load only to check for functionality. It’s a lot easier to load small batches for testing than pull small batches for reloading. If you get my drift.

 

[DMW1116]

Yep. Been there. I want to try some with Silhouette and HS-6. I have the data from Hornady for HS-6 and Ramshot has data for lighter bullets just not these. I’ll check my Blue Book of 9mm and Lyman manual and see what they say.

 

[lordpaxman]

But (long story short) they all show flattened primers,

Perhaps you could tell us what primers and post a picture of before and after? I use CCI 500 and don’t see that. Also, have you check for setback in your reloads? That could lead to a higher pressure spike.

Based on this I’d think that I need slower powder, but I’ve gathered that a number of y’all are successful using these powders with these bullet weights, so I’m wondering what I’m missing.

N320 is a well behaved single base powder. It’s widely used by the competition crowd for a lot of reasons. N330 supposedly was developed specifically for 9mm. WSF works well in 9mm too.
VV lists a lot of bullets but I found it difficult to choose a similar one and at the COL I needed. I use their free app. The closest workup I have compared to your DG 124 is a Rainier RN 124 at 1.142” , 4.0gr N320 had a 128PF out of a P226.
I do shoot the RMR 147g FP MW and settled on 3.6gr N320 at 1.120” which produces a comfortable 130PF.

 

[DMW1116]

It was a close race but I think the old CFE Pistol load was the winner by a small margin. Realistically any would do but it’s at least as accurate or maybe more so than the HS-6 or Silhouette load and uses less powder than either.

 

[DMW1116]

I loaded up another batch of CFE Pistol and 147 grain XTP to try out of my Canik Mete. It seems to shoot them pretty good. I’d guess about a 2.5” group at 25 yards, centered and about 3” high.

I also tried some 115 grain Berrys and Silhouette powder in the Mete. Off hand from 10 yards it shot basically a one hole group, centered and right at the top edge of the front sight. I was quite shocked and doubt I could replicate that with $50 worth of ammo.

I have a test array loaded up for the Mete with HS-6 and 147 grain XTPs. This will be a Mete specific load and I’m going to let my son shoot the test groups.

 

[chilehed]

I’m not familiar with power factors or even those powders. I’ve not had flattened primers even when running up to the top of the +P range with Silhouette though. Are they maybe just softer than normal primers. Do have more than one type to compare. Wishful thinking, I know.

Perhaps you could tell us what primers and post a picture of before and after? I use CCI 500 and don’t see that. Also, have you check for setback in your reloads? That could lead to a higher pressure spike.

N320 is a well behaved single base powder. It’s widely used by the competition crowd for a lot of reasons. N330 supposedly was developed specifically for 9mm. WSF works well in 9mm too.
VV lists a lot of bullets but I found it difficult to choose a similar one and at the COL I needed. I use their free app. The closest workup I have compared to your DG 124 is a Rainier RN 124 at 1.142” , 4.0gr N320 had a 128PF out of a P226.
I do shoot the RMR 147g FP MW and settled on 3.6gr N320 at 1.120” which produces a comfortable 130PF.

Please forgive my tardiness, it's been a crazy two months with no time to play. I do appreciate your guidance.

Turns out that I was either blind or stupid (or both) when I first examined the primers. I'm using Federals. At the range, in full sunlight, I was convinced that they were flattened, but when I looked at them in soft diffused light using a loupe it turned out that they were fine. When will I start remembering I'm not in my 20's any more?

At your suggestion I checked setback, on a 20-round sample I saw a consistent 0.001" which to me doesn't seem like much.

So here's what I have so far (sorry for the poor formatting):
Powder, Bullet, COL, Charge, Avg.Velocity, PF
N320, DG 124 Coated Lead, 1.06, 3.6, 1053, 131
N320, RMR 147 FMJ, 1.108, 3.1, 865, 127
N330, DG 124 Coated Lead, 1.06, 4.0, 1040, 129
N330, RMR 147 FMJ, 1.108, Work In Progress

And since I've been weighing out individual charges with a scale, after this I get to figure out which hole to use on my Lee Autodisk.

2.8 grains of N320 with the coated lead gives about 850 fps (PF 105), nice and soft but failed to eject with the stock spring. I tested a few with a 14# spring and they cycled fine, I'll roll a bunch more and make sure before introducing the combo to my wife.

Thanks again!

 

[DMW1116]

I ran a couple dozen HS-6 and Silhouette loads with a Berrys 115 plated bullets. These were part of a batch of loads to use the rest of my Berry’s bullets. The Canik seems to prefer the Silhouette load but it’s not by much. My Shield seems to prefer the HS-6 loads. At the time I was getting them, Berrys was the only thing readily available. I doubt I’ll use them any more unless I can find them on sale.

The Canik seems to have a hitch, which is the slide doesn’t lock open every once in a while. I thought it was my weaker hand loads but these are pretty far up there in terms of load range. I’ve heard the Caniks like heavier charges and neither one of these are near max.

 

[RashQuestion]

When will I start remembering I'm not in my 20's any more?

Take heart, you're not the only one who feels like this!!! I ask the same question daily. Perhaps we all do!

Thanks for sharing your info it's greatly appreciated!!! God Bless

 

[rocirish]

Take heart, you're not the only one who feels like this!!! I ask the same question daily. Perhaps we all do!

Thanks for sharing your info it's greatly appreciated!!! God Bless

I know I sure do.

 

[vaalpens]

I think you are selling yourself short to aim for 3" groupings at 25 yards. I mostly test at 15 yards, but I have tested 11 loads at 25 yards so far (not just 9mm). 8 Of the loads grouped at less then 3", and 5 off them less than 2".

Here are some loads with different powders/bullets that grouped well at 15 yards:

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: FC
COL: 1.065"
RMR, 124gr, TCFPMW, PowerPistol, 5.6gr, CCI500
Average: 1058
ES: 34
SD: 12.8
Force: 308
PF: 131
Velocities: 1045, 1061, 1053, 1079, 1054
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.65"
Test Date: 08/06/2018

9mm, P365X, 3.1"
Case: WIN
COL: 1.075"
RMR, 115gr, MPRJHP, CFEpistol, 5.7gr, FED100
Average: 1154
ES: 42
SD: 17.1
Force: 340
PF: 132
Velocities: 1167, 1158, 1170, 1147, 1128
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.73"
Test Date: 07/04/2022

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: Ammoload
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, HP38, 3.9gr, CCI500
Average: 938
ES: 3
SD: 1.3
Force: 242
PF: 116
Velocities: 939, 940, 937, 937, 938
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.77"
Test Date: 12/09/2017

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: FC
COL: 1.075"
RMR, 124gr, MPRJHP, WST, 4.2gr, FED100M
Average: 984
ES: 31
SD: 12.7
Force: 267
PF: 122
Velocities: 964, 981, 994, 988, 995
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.79"
Test Date: 03/05/2021

9mm, P365X, 3.1"
Case: WIN
COL: 1.075"
RMR, 115gr, MPRJHP, AA5, 6.4gr, FED100
Average: 1052
ES: 30
SD: 11.9
Force: 283
PF: 120
Velocities: 1059, 1070, 1040, 1045, 1050
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.81"
Test Date: 07/07/2022

 

[DMW1116]

Tried some of the 147 grain XTPs I bought on sale a bit ago. These are intended specifically for my new Canik Mete. I went up nearly to max with HS-6. The first and last charge shot best, so the first is probably what I’ll go with. Purely on luck I shot them on the same target. There is an 6 shot group about 2.5” across of both loads mixed together. Then to the left there is one flier from each set, though the flier from group 1 was closer. These groups aren’t too impressive compared to my Victory or Blackhawk but they’re pretty good as far as 9s go for me.

 

[chilehed]

Got out to the range today.
Polymer 80 G19 clone.
Zaffiri slide and barrel (threaded, no compensator).
Johnny Glocks Evolution Competition trigger w/ VEX shoe.
Mixed brass
83F ambient temp
10 round groups @ 7 yards

I definitely prefer the 147s.

DGB 124 Coated Lead
N320, 3.6 grains
COL 1.06 +/- 0.005
Velocity 1043 +/- 18
PF 129 +/- 2.2

IMG_5333

• chilehed
• Aug 10, 2022

DGB 124 Coated Lead
N330, 3.9 grains
COL 1.06 +/- 0.005
Velocity 1028 +/- 51.5
PF 128 +/- 6.4

IMG_5332

• chilehed
• Aug 10, 2022

RMR 147 FMJ
N320, 3.06 grains
COL 1.105 +/- 0.005
Velocity 871 +/- 23.5
PF 128 +/- 3.5

IMG_5334

• chilehed
• Aug 10, 2022

RMR 147 FMJ
N330, 3.5 grains
COL 1.105 +/- 0.005
Velocity 888 +/- 21.5
PF 131 +/- 3.2

IMG_5331

• chilehed
• Aug 10, 2022

 

[DMW1116]

That’s impressive. I’m about to need projectiles. I’m leaning toward some 135 or 147 grain lead coated. My 9s seem to like heavier, or at least slower, projectiles. I’m working through a pack of Gallant bullets in 38 Special and 357 Magnum and have had good results. I’ll probably try their 0.355 inch offerings next.

ETA: the VV powders also look interesting. I’m not in need of 9mm powder right now but they would be worth a look.

 

[DMW1116]

Anyone using Ramshot Competition for 9mm? It’s locally available and fairly cheap.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Anyone using Ramshot Competition for 9mm? It’s locally available and fairly cheap.

Yes. It loads and shoots similarly to TiteGroup but doesn’t run as hot. I think it’s a little easier to work with but same precautions as TG: it’s easy to double charge so keep your process simple.

 

[DMW1116]

After making a hard turn and going with RMR 147 grain Match Winners, I've found the load at least for the Canik. It's a minimum charge of HS-6 and loaded to 1.1" to ensure no length issues. This load matches my better loads from my Blackhawk and better groups from my Victory. I'm on a hunt now for more SPP and HS-6. Before I get too crazy, I need to test this load in my Shield and M&P9. This is two different loads and I'll probably go with the lighter load for powder economy. That will give me a shade over 1500 rounds from 1 pound. I shoot often, but not high volume. That will last me a long while. The Canik's larger magazines may get to me though.

 

[DMW1116]

So evidently that will just be a Canik load. My Shield runs it ok but the M&P9 threw shots all over at 25 yards from a rest. It shot 115 grain Berrys better when comparing at 10 yards. I have yet to find an outstanding load for the M&P9 or Shield. 147 grain XTPs shoot best and 147 grain Berrys are pretty good. That heavier bullet preference doesn’t extend to the RMR HMW though.