9mm +P+ Federal (9bple)

[Rock185]

I've carried the 9BPLE off and on for years, and just bought another case. This and the similar 9BP, and Federal XM9001 all happen to be very accurate and reliable when fired in my guns. The old tech bullet shape allows it to feed reliably in about any gun that will feed ball.

Over the years I've seen much concern expressed by owners of 9mm firearms about using the 9BPLE. I can only report that I've used it in quite a variety of firearms without any issue. It is hotter than standard pressure commercial ammunition, but I suspect that, as mentioned, it might be barely if at all hotter than +P. The CorBon 115 +P JHP ammo I used in years past routinely exceeded the velocities of the Federal 9BPLE and Winchester 115 grain +P+ I've chronographed, yet I've not seen grave concern about using the CorBon ammo..

Do people really think law enforcement agencies routinely order millions of rounds of potentially unsafe ammo?

 

[Palladan44]

I've carried the 9BPLE off and on for years, and just bought another case. This and the similar 9BP, and Federal XM9001 all happen to be very accurate and reliable when fired in my guns. The old tech bullet shape allows it to feed reliably in about any gun that will feed ball.

Over the years I've een much concern expressed by owners of 9mm firearms about using the 9BPLE. I can only report that I've used it in quite a variety of firearms without any issue. It is hotter than standard pressure commercial ammunition, but I suspect that, as mentioned, it might be barely if at all hotter than +P. The CorBon 115 +P JHP ammo I used in years past routinely exceeded the velocities of the Federal 9BPLE and Winchester 115 grain +P+ I've chronographed, yet I've not seen grave concern about using the CorBon ammo..

Do people really think law enforcement agencies routinely order millions of rounds of potentially unsafe ammo?

Agree here. The nose profile and shorter OAL of the 9BPLE cycles smoother in ALL of my 9mm firearms than any other.

 

[UncleEd]

From my readings, +P+ may be OK for some
duty guns and not for others.

Back when the Illinois State Police wanted +P+
for its S&W Model 39s, Winchester sought a
liability waiver before selling the ammo to that
agency.

And while not a usual duty firearm in the U.S.,
the Browning Hi Power is thought to be too
lightly built (compared to a 1911) for a steady
diet of +P+ 9mm ammo.

Extra heavy recoil springs in any auto can help
protect them from battering.

 

[9mmepiphany]

And while not a usual duty firearm in the U.S.,
the Browning Hi Power is thought to be too
lightly built (compared to a 1911) for a steady
diet of +P+ 9mm ammo.

The P-35 pattern pistols have long been known to beat themselves to death due to their light slides...it really was designed as a military sidearm.

Even when the South African and Rhodesian IPSC teams competed with their P-35, they were replaced after one season as they were cracking slides

 

[NMexJim]

The P-35 pattern pistols have long been known to beat themselves to death due to their light slides...it really was designed as a military sidearm.

Even when the South African and Rhodesian IPSC teams competed with their P-35, they were replaced after one season as they were cracking slides

I've run a lot of hot rounds through several Hi Powers using Wolff spring kits and slide buffers. No cracks so far.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I've run a lot of hot rounds through several Hi Powers using Wolff spring kits and slide buffers. No cracks so far.

Any estimate of how many thousand through any one P-35?

 

[UncleEd]

I've run a lot of hot rounds through several Hi Powers using Wolff spring kits and slide buffers. No cracks so far.

That's a good way to ease the punishing impact on a Hi Power or any gun.

But just for the record, the British SAS with its Hi Powers decided
that 2,000 rounds of powerful "machine gun" 9mm was enough.
Then slide replacement was ordered.

 

[Palladan44]

Did browning or FN do anything to address this with the gen2 and gen3s?
You'd think they would have if they had a terrible problem like......crumbling after only 2000 rounds.

I own 4 HI powers. 3 of them are former military. 2 of those were heavily used when I got em, and at least 30 years old at that point. I then proceeded to use them, shoot the heck out of them for 20 more years. And no problems or signs of damage. But again, I'm not banging off a case of +p+ ammo in them. Also, maybe I'm just lucky.....

 

[UncleEd]

With any auto the stress level from +P and +P+ can vary
and determine slide/frame life. Even the vaunted 1911
has its breaking point depending on the type of ammo,
quality of springs and how often springs are replaced.

In the case of the thin HP some believe that a heavier slide
recoil spring than spec is a good idea. Didn't say the HP
slide would "crumble" after 2,000 rounds; it was a
rigorous maintenance program the Brits instituted to be
sure slides didn't crack when in the field.

The "Wilson Combat 1911Auto Maintenance Manual"
recommends replacing the recoil spring every 2,000
rounds, firing pin spring every 5,000 rounds and
hammer spring every 25,000 rounds.

 

[NMexJim]

Did browning or FN do anything to address this with the gen2 and gen3s?
You'd think they would have if they had a terrible problem like......crumbling after only 2000 rounds.

I own 4 HI powers. 3 of them are former military. 2 of those were heavily used when I got em, and at least 30 years old at that point. I then proceeded to use them, shoot the heck out of them for 20 more years. And no problems or signs of damage. But again, I'm not banging off a case of +p+ ammo in them. Also, maybe I'm just lucky.....

My understanding is that the military variety, the Mark I made for WWII allied forces in Canada, would crack mostly in the slide but some had frame cracks too. Some Mark I's were chambered in 40 and 357 Sig and were doomed. The Mark II was an upgrade but not so much structurally. The Mark III consisted of the Standard and the Practical and was designed with the 40 in mind, and I don't think there have been many problems with them. Mine that I shoot are the Mark III (mine are marked Belgium and Portugal) and haven't given me any issues other than the nasty trigger which can be improved somewhat.

I went through a hot round phase and was smart enough to use springs and buffers. I was exchanging texts w/ Stephen Camp about then, and I remember a lot of Blue Dot being used. Barrels would get pretty hot after a few rounds. I watched locking lugs and slides for wear, but never saw any. No extraordinary looseness. All those guns still running fine although I fully recovered from my hot round phase. Standard loadings suit me just fine now as I can get back on target faster.

People seem to either love or hate Hi Powers. I fell in love with the feel of the first one I picked up and knew I had to have a few. I carried one for years. Quite comforting. What is the difference between the Mk II and Mk III Hi Powers (hipowersandhandguns.com)
Here's an article written by Stephen should you be interested.

 

[Rock185]

9mmepiphany, I agree the Hi Powers have a light slide, and I think about the barrel cam in the frame too. I prefer to use the warmer ammo in guns with beefier slides, 1911s, SIGs with the machined slides, Glocks, HK USP, etc. I've not put a lot of the hotter stuff through any one Hi Power. I never broke anything, but I'm more conservative about what I use in Hi Powers now days than I've been in past.

 

[amd6547]

I shot a lot of BPLE through a couple High Powers. 127gn Ranger +P+ too. Never had an issue. I did have a cracked slide with an Argentine P35, the version with the slide that looked like a 1911 at the front. I got it used, and had only shot White box through it. Crack from front bottom corner of ejection port down to slide edge. First showed up as oil seepage.
I attribute that to poor Argentine metallurgy.
I’ve owned an Inglis Chinese return, as well as a chrome plated nazi Belgian bringback…both with uncounted rounds through them and all on original springs, lol.

To bring it back to BPLE, I use it in my current Glock G26, which shoots it like it was made for it. Right at the start of the plandemic, SG Ammo had BPLE for $18/box of 50, and I ordered a few boxes. My favorite, the Ranger 127gn +P+ only seems available at scalper prices now.

 

[Rock185]

Some might be familiar with Brian Pearce, who writes for Handloader magazine. He wrote a good article on loading the 9mm in the October 2019 edition of Handloader. On the first page, "Standard Pressure Loads" is prominently displayed. Using a Kimber with a 5" barrel, he goes on to test about 300 9mm loads. Some of the standard pressure loads he lists equal or exceed the factory Federal 9BPLE, Winchester, or Remington 115 grain 9mm +P+ loads I've chronographed, i.e., ~1350-1400+ FPS. Some of the top 124/125 grain loads were right at, or slightly above, 1300 FPS. His higher velocity loads are consistent with the velocities I achieved using 115 and 124/125 grain jacketed bullets and medium to slow pistol powders.

Surely, ammunition manufacturers have access to more than just the commercial powders available to Mr. Pierce. Whether marked on the case +P, +P+, or not, could they not load ammunition to velocities similar to those achieved by Mr. Pearce at pressures unlikely to accelerate the firearm wear or damage that many seem concerned about? Food for thought anyway...

 

[NMexJim]

9mmepiphany, I agree the Hi Powers have a light slide, and I think about the barrel cam in the frame too. I prefer to use the warmer ammo in guns with beefier slides, 1911s, SIGs with the machined slides, Glocks, HK USP, etc. I've not put a lot of the hotter stuff through any one Hi Power. I never broke anything, but I'm more conservative about what I use in Hi Powers now days than I've been in past.

FN moved away from the machined slide to a cast slide with the Mark III, a much stronger arrangement. This was to accommodate the .40 cal that was pretty new on the scene.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Anyone have a link to the Brian Pierce article?
And btw, It’s October’19 issue.
I’d like to see some of his loads and powder recommendations.
Don’t care to waste $10, though, on published data….

 

[Rock185]

NMexJim, FN did go to the cast frames when the .40 was introduced, but the slides were still machined as they had always been. I had 9mm HPs with both machined and cast frames, and a .40 with the cast frame. All with machined slides though.

 

[Big7]

I have a couple boxes of past production 9bple. It has a good reputation and it's probably worth it at half the price of more modern and proven rounds like the gold dot or hst. Today though I would only pay half for it if I could not get GD or HST.

Hello Guys.

I haven't been on THR in a while but this popped up while I was doing a google search on the 9BPLE.... Long story but here we are.

Anyhooo... I'm going to disagree with @unclenunzie 'post about only paying 1/2 price for this ammo.

This ammo is proven and imo it's every bit as good as any cup and core handgun hollow point made today and probably only second to the solid copper non expanding bullets that have the crazy flutes. Time will tell on them but they look to be superior to all others in ballistic gel.

Those Federal hollow points are bad to the bone and if anyone has them half price, PM me, I'll gladly take them off your hands.

The last box I bought I marked 2019 and they were $27.95.

I have a couple boxes of past production 9bple. It has a good reputation and it's probably worth it at half the price of more modern and proven rounds like the gold dot or hst. Today though I would only pay half for it if I could not get GD or HST.

 

[Riomouse911]

From my readings, +P+ may be OK for some
duty guns and not for others.

Back when the Illinois State Police wanted +P+
for its S&W Model 39s, Winchester sought a
liability waiver before selling the ammo to that
agency.

And while not a usual duty firearm in the U.S.,
the Browning Hi Power is thought to be too
lightly built (compared to a 1911) for a steady
diet of +P+ 9mm ammo.

Extra heavy recoil springs in any auto can help
protect them from battering.

I do know of one large Sheriffs Department (1,500+ sworn) that went from the Win 127 Ranger T 9mm +P+ to the Win 124 Ranger T 9mm +P because manufacturers were not honoring warranty claims on Department and individual deputies firearms. This switch was made several years ago. It affected not only the SD, but all the agencies who contracted with their range to conduct training and issue 9mm duty ammo for their personnel. (My former agency was one.)

I mirrored the purchases myself over the years from the distributor and still have thousands of JHP rounds on my shelf, from vanilla cup and core to the premium ones we were issued.



I have not read nor heard of any issues with effectiveness at any affected agency after OIS incidents because of this switch to the +P load shoots.

Stay safe.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I do know of one large Sheriffs Department (1,500+ sworn) that went from the Win 127 Ranger T 9mm +P+ to the Win 124 Ranger T 9mm +P because manufacturers were not honoring warranty claims on Department and individual deputies firearms

My former department issued the 127gr +P+ for officers who preferred the 9mm over the mainstream issue .40 load. I preferred the 9mm in either the department's 226 or my 228. I was never under the impression that there was any implied warranty when shooting the +P+ ammo...there clearly wasn't when we were issuing the Treasury +P+ load for use in the department issued M-13 (that was a horrible general issue round, but CHP wanted it for their S&W M-68).

I found the 127gr +P+ load very accurate and controllable...I'm sure I still have some in my stash...but I preferred the 124gr +P Gold Dot

 

[Riomouse911]

My former department issued the 127gr +P+ for officers who preferred the 9mm over the mainstream issue .40 load. I preferred the 9mm in either the department's 226 or my 228. I was never under the impression that there was any implied warranty when shooting the +P+ ammo...there clearly wasn't when we were issuing the Treasury +P+ load for use in the department issued M-13 (that was a horrible general issue round, but CHP wanted it for their S&W M-68).

I found the 127gr +P+ load very accurate and controllable...I'm sure I still have some in my stash...but I preferred the 124gr +P Gold Dot

Yeah, I fired scads of the +P+ load over the years, it was excellent in my Glock 19 and 34.

When it expands as designed, the SXT is one bullet that I most certainly would not want to get shot with.

Stay safe.

 

[NMexJim]

Did browning or FN do anything to address this with the gen2 and gen3s?
You'd think they would have if they had a terrible problem like......crumbling after only 2000 rounds.

I own 4 HI powers. 3 of them are former military. 2 of those were heavily used when I got em, and at least 30 years old at that point. I then proceeded to use them, shoot the heck out of them for 20 more years. And no problems or signs of damage. But again, I'm not banging off a case of +p+ ammo in them. Also, maybe I'm just lucky.....

Any estimate of how many thousand through any one P-35?

I was reviewing this thread on +p+ and noticed that I had not answered your question on round count for BHP. We had contractors working about this time and I whiffed it.

I have several BHPs, but my favorite is a Mark III Practical 9mm. I know how folks have a tendency to over estimate rounds down range. I was putting 400+/- rounds/month through it pretty consistently for a couple of years, then tapered back to 200 or so for several more. I had started running slide buffers early on because much of this was pretty warm.

About this time, I picked up a XDM9. I sent the Browning off for a safety check and then gave it to my son-in-law who continues to shoot it to date. An XDM ain’t no BHP, but I sure felt better beating it up.

How many rounds? Around 15k would be close - maybe higher. Somewhere during all this, I found Steve Camp’s site. Maybe it‘s my imagination, but the current archived articles for his Hi Power posts appear to be missing some load info that was pretty hot - or maybe it was correspondence. He was fond of Blue Dot. I liked it well enough for hi-vel except that my barrel would get hotter than I cared for.

I’ve not treated my earlier models this way. I personally can’t say enough for slide buffers in Hi Powers.

 

[Rock185]

FWIW, 2¢ about the last batch of 9BPLE I bought. This lot only averaged 1259 FPS in one of my 5" guns. Seemed awful low compared with 9BPLE I'd chronographed in past. Checked in another manufactuer's 5" gun, 9BPLE from same lot averaged only 1257 FPS. This velocity is consistent with the Remington 115 +P ammo I was issued for years, and much slower than the old CorBon 115 +P ammo I'd chronographed in past. The new normal for 9BPLE, or just a variation in lots? I don't know. Only about 70 FPS faster than the standard pressure Federal 9BP I chronographed at the same time.

Federal indicated this lot of 9BPLE was manufactured Oct. '22.

 

[C0untZer0]

they look to be superior to all others in ballistic gel.

What criteria are you using to designate the 9BPLE "superior" to rounds like HST, Ranger "T" Series, Winchester Defend and Gold Dot 124gr+P ? do you have links to the gel tests or test results?

 

[Simple Shooter]

If you were double tapped center mass with one round of old school 9BPLE and one round of the latest $2/round Super-Duper Great Gazoo ammo, would you be able to tell which was which? Would it matter?

I'm all for getting a good bulk deal on any round that will do the job. That way, I can afford to shoot plenty of it through my carry guns to ensure it functions well, hits at point of aim with my particular guns, and that I am comfortable and confident in the combination.