9mm plated 124 gr. with TiteGroup

[LiveLife]

Have not used Berrys Plated bullets, however, using Frontier and Xtreme I find that using FMJ load data provides better accuracy.

That may be because not all plated bullets are manufactured the same. Frontier and X-Treme bullets are advertised as .355" sized and will leak more gas especially in barrels with oversized (.356"+) groove-to-groove diameter, hence requiring more powder to produce consistent enough chamber pressures for accuracy.

Many have posted bullet-to-barrel fit is crucial to producing consistent chamber pressures/accuracy and Jay Phillips (who is no longer with Berry's MFG) posted in the past that their testing showed greater accuracy when sizing of 9mm plated bullet increased and manufactured their bullets sized slightly larger around .3555" and advertised them as .356" which is also indicated on Hodgdon load data. It is for this reason why X-Treme offers larger sizing bullets for 147 gr bullet weight and RMR sizes some of their own manufactured bullets to .356" - https://rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets...15-gr-rmr-hardcore-match-round-nose-plated-2/

124 GR. BERB HBRN TP Titegroup Dia .356" COL 1.150" Start 3.6 gr (957 fps) 27,700 PSI - Max 4.1 gr (1,057 fps) 32,700 PSI

125 GR. SIE FMJ Titegroup Dia .355" COL 1.090" Start 4.1 gr (1,069 fps) 27,300 CUP - Max 4.4 gr (1,136 fps) 30,600 CUP

So depending on the groove diameter of the barrel and sizing of the bullet, amount of powder needed to produce reliable slide cycling, spent case extraction/ejection and accuracy may vary.

Note that posted Hodgdon load data used Berry's HBRN-TP (Hollow Base Round Nose Thick Plated) bullet which was designed to expand the base better to seal with the barrel and produce longer base to engage the rifling for more consistent chamber pressures. Based on my own experience and testing, I found accuracy to decrease when higher than mid range jacketed load data was used with regular plated bullets (around .004" plating thickness) but accuracy was maintained with thicker plated bullets (.012"+ plating thickness).

FYI, on this thread, all currently manufactured plated bullets will be comparison tested using a machine rest when it is built - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ng-at-25-50-yards.808446/page-2#post-10334678

Most jacketed bullets have copper alloy/gilding metal jacket thickness of around .015"-.030". Regular thickness plated bullets have around .004" thick copper plating and are usually limited to 1200 fps. Thicker plated bullets have .012"+ thick copper plating and are usually limited to 1500 fps. Below is a listing of copper thickness of various plated bullets as best as I could find - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778197/page-8#post-10309500

Speer Gold Dot HP: .018"

Speer Total Metal Jacket (TMJ): .015"

Rocky Mountain Reloading Hardcore Match: .012"-.014" (rated to 1500 fps)

Berry's Thick Plated (TP): .012" (rated to 1500 fps)

PowerBond/Accura Outdoors: .010"-.011" (rated to 1300 fps)

X-Treme Heavy Plate Concave Base/Hollow Point (HPCB/HP): .008" - .010" (rated to 1500 fps)

X-Treme Regular: .006" - .008" (rated to 1200 fps)

Berry's Regular: .0035"-.008" (rated to 1250 fps)

Hunting Shack Munitions: .005" (no fps rating)

Rainier Ballistics: .004" (rated to 1500 fps?)

Frontier CMJ: Can't find plating thickness or fps rating

 

[Doublehelix]

BTW, I go by "bds" on THR. Linux Mint is the operating system I run on my computers (FYI, Linux Mint is a free open source OS that is a streamlined "hotrod" version of Linux/Ubuntu to work faster).

Whoops, I see that now, sorry!!!

I am familiar with Linux, and thought you were using it as your user name. I will pay better attention in the future.

All of the data you are posting is amazing, and very helpful. It is greatly appreciated.

I went back and looked at some of my targets from my ladder workup, and it actually looks like 4.0 gr of TiteGroup is actually the better of the groups over the 124 gr Berry's (regular) plated bullets, at least in my gun and at 1.150" OAL. I loaded up some more last night to try today.

I am doing some playing around with different headstamps, and have sorted a bunch of mixed brass into headstamp groups. I have started to see some patterns emerge, once again, at least in *my gun* at the loads listed above. I don't want to say too much without further testing, but it seems that at least one of the brass brands is not as accurate as the others in my gun. This could be completely random and not a true finding, but I have loaded about 80 rounds to test today (20 from 4 different headstamps) to see if I can narrow down my initial findings.

 

[LiveLife]

I switched to 9mm carbines when 22LR become difficult to find as I can reload 9mm for less than $6 / 50 using plated bullets.

On the 9mm carbine load with mixed range brass thread, my initial testing with mixed headstamp brass (WIN, RP, Blazer, .FC./FC, etc.) and once-fired .FC. brass showed interesting results. The mixed headstamp brass reloaded several times by me (and who knows how many times they were reloaded when I picked them up) produced not only comparable sized shot groups but smaller shot groups than once-fired .FC. brass. I believe .FC. brass (with the dots) are made in new Speer plant and have thicker walls than FC brass - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...lets-in-9mm-40s-w-45acp.799231/#post-10195002

I plan to repeat the testing once the machine rest is built but my guess at this point is that mixed brass that have been reloaded several times may have undergone enough work hardening to produce more consistent chamber pressures, at least that's my current theory.

Another factor that I believe is significant for mixed headstamp is the varying degree of neck tension. I test neck tension by measuring bullet setback before and after feeding/chambering dummy rounds from the magazine by releasing the slide without riding it. If I measure bullet setback of more than several thousandths, I consider to have neck tension issue. If I experience significant bullet setback with .355" sized bullets, I found using larger sized .356" bullets (i.e. RMR 115 gr HC Match) or 124 gr bullets with longer base (i.e. Berry's HBRN-TP) resolve bullet setback issue to the point where I do not experience any bullet setback.

 

[DeadEye9]

Thanks @Linux Mint, that was a great thread to link to.

I personally think HP-38/231 is too fast for a 9 to make any decent velocity and keep accuracy. Tite Group and Power Pistol are my go to 9mm powders these days. Typically loading a 124 XTP because they are very accurate but I do also load a good bit of both Berrys plated 124 RN FMJ and Winchester 124 RN FMJ. I shoot most of my 9mm in action pistol matches, so combat accuracy not Bullseye accuracy. I also like a full velocity load because I like the POI and feel to be similar to my carry ammo. This is why I don't use much HP38 for 9mm anymore because the pressures get too high before you get any real velocity. With PP and TiteGroup I'm able to get 1230-1250fps from my full size guns with moderate book loads. That's just a personal preference though. I have loaded quite a bit of 9mm with HP-38 and the mentioned 124s though, and they can offer good accuracy and are easy shooting, just slow velocity for the pressures you get.
For a soft feeling plinking load though, My Glocks liked 4.4 of HP38 in Federal/Win/Speer brass, Federal SP primers, and a little long at 1.153".
For me these loads group identical to Winchester 124 NATO white box which was nice and accurate. I've even used the seemingly dreaded and feared IMT/Freedom Munitions brass (oh no!) for a few thousand rounds of 124gr 9mm, half of which were used with HP-38 and a Plated 124 RN FMJ. My notes say 4.1 in those cases was the preferred load for my Sigs and M&Ps loaded a little shorter at 1.145 held the best groups. The Glocks liked 4.3gr and 1.151" OAL in those cases.
All that taken into account; I would try from 3.9 or so up to 4.4ish or wherever you feel the need to stop, and range your OAL from 1.144-1.154 in small batches, see what YOUR pistols favor and then load a bunch of that configuration from here on out.


Since I am just making plinking loads anyway with these plated bullets, I might try some W231/HP-38 (I have quite of bit) to see how it shoots with these plinking rounds.

Thanks.

 

[JonB]

My standard 9mm load is 124gr X-Treme plated over 4.1gr Titegroup. COL is 1.14. Good range stuff that works well in my XD9. My Smith 3913 didn't like it as much (not as accurate). I've shot a lot that load, in fact just dug out 2 ziploc bags full of it as I am hoping to hit the range tomorrow if possible.

 

[AR-Bossman]

Interesting Linux Mint. I'm also working up a load with my PSA 16" @50y. When I bought it I had dreams that it would make all my 9mm ammo super accurate. SUPER DISAPPOINTED!!!

Weather turned cold so I'm on hold but I am creeping my way up to at least having less than a shotgun pattern.

 

[LiveLife]

LOL, I am bds, not Linux Mint.

Yes, I too was initially disappointed with my 50 yard groups but Walkalong suggested I use lighter bullets for smaller groups as faster velocity reduces bullet drop and transonic effect. My current smaller groups are achieved with 100 gr RMR Hardcore Match RN loaded with (believe it or not) Promo which produced smaller variance in velocity (1478-1475-1480-1471-1467 fps).

I am continuing with my carbine load testing, particularly with plated bullets and found use of fixed stock helped reduce my group size even more. Instead of hijacking this thread, you can join the carbine load discussion on this thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...n-9mm-40s-w-45acp.799231/page-3#post-10245856

 

[kingmt]

What are you aiming at BDS? Just holding it in the middle of the paper the best you can?

I couldn't shot like that & really expect a group. I get one once in a while but I try to aim small. I see a 1" dot at 25 yards pretty well so I'll usually use that. I don't expect my groups to be any better then my target size.

For hand gun I never expected much until I got this Wolf barrel. Now I might try a little harder. I figured it was always me & not the gun until I used this barrel & find I can do better then the gun can.

 

[LiveLife]

I am using Bushnell Dusk & Dawn 6-18x50mm AO scope zeroed at 50 yards on the carbines.

After first shot, I repeat my aim for 10 shot group.

 

[kingmt]

Sounds nice. My scopes are about par for 100 yard shooting. I forgot we were talking about carbine rifles but still you don't use something small or do you aim at your first hit?

 

[LiveLife]

I use 8.5"x11" copy paper for targets and after the scope is zeroed, usually aim right at the center or center of top half if I am shooting two groups per target.

 

[Walkalong]

Walkalong suggested I use lighter bullets for smaller groups as faster velocity reduces bullet drop and transonic effect.

I suggested trying light bullets because they were fun at high speed, and casually mentioned that a side benefit was less drop if you like to shoot long range.

 

[LiveLife]

I suggested trying light bullets because they were fun at high speed, and casually mentioned that a side benefit was less drop if you like to shoot long range.

Sorry for putting words in your mouth. I should have posted Walkalong did suggest use of lighter bullets for 9mm carbine testing which resulted in higher velocities that maintained supersonic speed to 50/100 yard targets and decreased bullet drop/vertical stringing.

 

[DBEAM]

My standard 9mm load is 124gr X-Treme plated over 4.1gr Titegroup. COL is 1.14.

Almost identical to my load. I go a little closer to 1.15 but I aim for 4.1 grains. Have shot over 500 rounds of this from my taurus pt111 g2 and around 1,000 behind 3.8 (moved to 4.1 when I got an auto drum instead of having to rely on what auto disc gave me). Average over chrono graph is 994 for the 4.1 grains, that is out of the 3.2 inch pt111 g2. I started using tite group earlier on when starting reloading and have been through at least 3-4 lbs of it. I also use it for .38 special and .45 acp but for economy but I feel its really well suited for 9mm. it works good in 45 but doesn't give good velocity, haven't loaded enough in .38 to know much but that it give more velocity then hp-38.

 

[Doublehelix]

I have been doing all of my testing through an H&K VP9, and the 4.1gr of Titegroup seems to work well (124 gr. Berry's plated RN). Of course, YMMV, so load with caution...

I tried a few of these through my smaller Sig P938 yesterday. Ouch! Lots of recoil, it actually hurt to shoot them. Definitely too hot for the small Sig.

 

[al123]

Used 6.5gr HS-6, CCISP with X-treme 124g HPCB RN bullet (COL: 1.155in). (For ref Hodgdon site: HS-6, range 6.0-6.6gr using the Berry's HB thick plated).

I like HS-6 because it's tough to double charge (fills up the case past 50%) and meters very well. Test firearm was a Glock 19. Average value out of my chrony was: 1103 ft/s, 10 SD.

In working up the load, 6.0gr felt like shooting 22lr. At 6.5gr, recoil felt similar to Fed 124gr HST (std power version), CCI Blazer 124gr brass, and Fed-Eagle 124gr.

Note: These results only reflect my own usage. Nothing guaranteed.

 

[Jonesy814]

I have loaded 4gr of Titegroup under a 124gr Xtreme bullet with an OAL of 1.150 with great success. The load is accurate and feels like a factory load. I have run these in an M&P Shield, LC9 and SR9c with no problems