I have to admit I thought from reading the title this was in the wrong section of THR, there is after all a board for tax stamp guns. I then wonder if the OP was talking about small 9x19 handguns like any number of half plastic pocket pistols.
Skimming through I am still not sure what we are talking about. Some talk about 9x19 carbines like MrMike's Marlin Camp9 and others seem to be talking about pistolized versions of guns like the AR 15.
So not sure what we are talking about.....so I guess I will wing it as well.
It the OP means 9x19mm carbines, I think they have a definite place for civilian use as both a recreational gun and a Home Defensive weapon. A 16+ inch barreled, stocked rifle is going to be faster to hit with for most folks than a handgun and 9x19 mm is cheap enough to practice with and considered okey dokey for anti personel use. It is no bigger than a legal unstamped HD shotgun and shoots more often and faster. It is fun to shoot on the range and cheaper than a traditional rifle caliber. What is not to like?
If he means the pistolized carbines, well, "everyone to their own tastes" said the old lady as she kissed the cow. Jiminy ,I thought taking the stock of a 1928 Thompson for blazing away stupidly (especial with the 50 round drum in oil burning insanely long bursts) was a hoot, MP 40 with the stock folded? Yeah buddy. a Host of other folders all short and buttstock free, whee! But as toys. I did train to use my AR-180 inside 25 yards with the stock folded, but honestly if I was not wearing a flap holster drawing and engaging with a handgun was generally faster to first round on target unless I got the stock open and used it in a traditional manner. I also shot one of the Enforcer type Cut down M-1 carbines in the late '60's or early '70's and was so impressed ( and I LOVE the M1 Carbine) that I dashed right out and DID NOT buy one and announced that I would prefer no one give me one. I did think it kind of neat in a show and tell way and saw its value in police work at the time as something to put on a show of force with to discourage say rioting with, sort of a Psy war sort of thing more valuable for being seen than fired.
My first real experience with pistolized on purpose modern guns was the MP5k a cut down and butt stockless (later folks made folders for them) of the MP5 that was being used by a German entry team with the Frankfurst Special Police Group in 1982 or so. Some firing was done two handed, a very little one handed and most from a sling. I was somewhat underwhelmed. The German Team did one thing that I can not imagine a LEO or home owner doing here, they trained to actually engage with fire, closed doors and large pieces of furniture. While the normal MP5 guns of that team where fired on semi, the MP5k that day was fired in 15 round bursts (the entire short carry magazine) , striving for sort of a figure 8 pattern on the suspected object. This was BTW how the female terrorist in the toilet at Mogodishu was killed, through the door.
State side I got one of the early Tech 9 pistols to play with a bit, and found that despite the 32 round magazine that I could make more A zone hits in less time at seven and fifteen yards with my CZ75 than with that thing. Someone showed up at the range with a Leder, the Austrailian AR-18 "simplified" and not surprisingly it was a lot like firing the AR-180 folded but with less barrel out front.
Eventually I got to shoot one of the early AR pistols in .223 with no recoil spring tube and honestly I would rather have had a 9x19 mm handgun.
Now everyone makes a AR, AK, Strumgee-sumpin' with an "arm brace" Honestly If someone wants one of those in 9x19 instead of .223 or 7.62 M43 more power to them, what's the difference?
my biggest concern about the arm brace guns is that they might be banned tomorrow morning. No? let me just say "bump stocks"
Now if the OP actually meant SMGs, hey I like .45ACP as much as the next guy, but the 9x19 are easer to shoot generally in those short 2 to 3 round burst that are called for. I can attest that walking into a near riot situation with 12 on three and racking an MP5 will absolutely make you the center of attention and cause atleast a few of those dozen trouble makers to find Gohd and reconsider their sinful ways. Of course raking a 12 gauge pump may have had the same effect, but this was an MP5. OK when the shooting actually starts I would rather have an Uzi, MP5 or even an old MP40 or heck even a STEN than a 9x19 service pistol....but if I have to carry around a Seven to eight pound gun on a sling all day I would just as soon it were a rifle caliber and had a stock at least available.
So have I confused things enough?
-kBob
