9mm sub guns... Why??

[Trey Veston]

Washington is once again pushing through anti-RKBA legislation that will outlaw all magazines that hold more than 15-rounds. Their previous legislation requiring additional fees, training, and local-LEO approval for semi-auto rifles and pistols goes into effect in July.

My brother told me about a line of 9mm sub guns that he heard about that are affordable and getting rave reviews. Told me about them last Fall and while they seem cool, I didn't really want one.

Now I do...

Not sure if just because I know they are about the most offensive thing to anti-gunners, or what.

Already ordered some Glock 33-round mags for it.

I would think they would be ideal for home defense, or as a truck gun for SHTF, or just a range toy, but not much else.

The company I'm buying from has models in .45 ACP and 10mm, but they have been in development ever since I first heard about them last year. One in 10mm would be amazing as a camp carbine, but not sure I can wait for them to be released, so hopefully ordering the 9mm.

Just need some support that it will actually be useful or a worthwhile purchase.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Im not in your political situation up there but I just don’t care for those types of firearms.

I would stock up on as many full and high capacity mags as you can as long as their not going to make them illegal ex post facto.

 

[Doc Samson]

My brother told me about a line of 9mm sub guns that he heard about that are affordable and getting rave reviews. Told me about them last Fall and while they seem cool, I didn't really want one.

Just need some support that it will actually be useful or a worthwhile purchase.

Yes! I've been looking at those for months! Tried to buy one the other evening but they were gone within 5 minutes of posting up that they were in stock! While the 10mm or 45 would pack a punch, I decided to go with a 9mm for practicalities sake. I think it will make a great truck/backpack/HD firearm. For the price, seems like a great value, even if you don't use it for anything other than a range toy...

 

[tarosean]

Just need some support that it will actually be useful or a worthwhile purchase.

I have a PCC, Kriss Vector, primarily for the mag interchangeability with my Glocks. I can use it at many indoor ranges that dont allow centerfire rifle, Its cheaper to shoot than my centerfire rifles. Its just plain fun.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

I built myself two ARs in 9mm. I have a carbine and a pistol, both take Glock magazines. First off, the ammo is cheaper. Just picked up 750 rounds of 9mm 115rg FMJ for $0.13 a round. Second, they are fun to shoot. My grandson is a little shy when it comes to shooting an AR15 but he loves shooting my AR9 pistol.
And yes, they are great for home defense.

 

[Hasaf]

I have a CZ scorpion EVO and it is a fun gun at the range.


Take some of these and see how far downrange you can get it in thirty seconds. A variant is to start at 25 yards and race to 50.

I have a friend who is faster than I am at ths; but I am catching up. It was amazing the difference a red-dot sight made to this game.

 

[FL-NC]

In a previous life, I was a SMG instructor. While those types of weapons have largely fallen out of favor of the military and LE in many places, they do have some tactical utility. IMO, they are a very viable HD gun, and would serve well in many cases as a vehicle long gun, and are superior to a shotgun. They are generally compact and light, and if based on the AR design- as well as some other designs, such as a kel-tech, they have (or can be made to have) the ability to use things like white lights or a RDS with relative ease and minimal expense, compared to, say, a dedicated surefire forend light on a shotgun. With practice, they can be employed to a range of 100 meters, which I think is more than adequate for a city/town resident. They have a larger magazine capacity than MOST shotguns, and have a lesser recoil, blast, and flash. As such, they enable the user to fire more aimed rounds in a shorter period of time with less negative feedback to the shooter. All of these things combined make them an excellent choice for those with physical challenges that would affect their ability to efficiently employ something like a 18" barrel 870 loaded up with buckshot. 2 downsides to this type of firearm choice: 1- they are larger than a handgun, so they are difficult to use while trying to do something else at the same time, like using your phone, opening a door, etc., and they are impossible to use or carry "discreetly"- (traits they share with the shotgun, but is somewhat mitigated by the lighter weight) 2- accessibility issues- someone who has one of these things may be hesitant to keep it accessible, due to cost, the user may think its something that should be kept in a safe (where it is worthless as a HD gun) or otherwise secured to prevent it falling into unauthorized hands, such as a child or thief- another trait they share with shotguns. As a "range toy", they are fun to shoot, but tend to be rather "hungry". On that part, it would be up to the individual to decide if this is a vice or virtue.

 

[jmorris]

I can’t speak on Tactical utility but they are the cheapest to have fun with.

 

[Texas10mm]

Care to share the company?

I've got a Ruger PCC and love it. It's an adults 10/22.

 

[Jeff H]

I can’t speak on Tactical utility but they are the cheapest to have fun with.

Once you already shell out the money for a full auto handgun. I can't imagine how much those cost. Is there even 100 Glock 18s in the country that are transferable?

 

[Texas10mm]

Once you already shell out the money for a full auto handgun. I can't imagine how much those cost.

They are priceless. A common citizen simply can't buy one. If we didn't have the Hughes Act then they would cost about $200 more than a standard handgun.

 

[jmorris]

Once you already shell out the money for a full auto handgun. I can't imagine how much those cost.

That one is a 17C and isn’t transferable

The part that makes it fun has a couple dollars worth of raw materials.

When you look at the amount of money some spend on “fun” things like vacations, RV’s, boats, motorcycles. Machineguns don’t seem as expensive, certainly don’t drop in value like the above do.

 

[AlexanderA]

Just because something is about to be outlawed, doesn't make it inherently better. I generally don't like extended magazines for handguns (magazines that protrude beyond the grip). For example, I recently bought a Sig Sauer M17. It came with two (normal) 17 round magazines and one (extended) 21 round magazine. I seems to me that the extra 4 round capacity doesn't offset the ungainliness of the weapon with the extended magazine attached.

 

[dh1633pm]

We went though that in NY. I don't give opinions on what to do or not do when the government determines those things you lawfully purchased are now illegal. I can certainly understand. I would think based on estimates for modern sporting rifle registration within the state, that many didn't participate with government efforts. I am fully compliant. I have one AR with a single shot DPMS lower. Use it for target shooting.

 

[erazor55]

One of the original subguns in 9mm. I couldn't help picking one of these up a few years ago ;-). Found a surplus sling off of UK ebay too.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I think they may be fun to shoot, but for "SHTF"? I have a hard time trying to understand what kind of "S" would require this as a defense weapon. I am not trying to be flippant, just honestly do not know what kind of attack where it would be necessary to buy one.. Some of you guys must really live in some serious neighbor hoods. What kind of attacks are you expecting may happen?

 

[Jim Watson]

My brother told me about a line of 9mm sub guns that he heard about that are affordable and getting rave reviews.

I take "sub gun" to be a submachine gun, fully automatic and shorter than any usual rifle or carbine.
There is no such thing as an affordable submachine gun and has not been since 1986 when private purchase of a new automatic weapon was banned.

Now if you are talking about a semiautomatic lookalike, there are several options.
The main ones are the Pistol Caliber Carbine and the AR Pistol with "arm brace." There is no reason a Short Barreled Rifle could not be had cheaply, but the tax and long turnaround documentation would still apply.
Since you don't say what make and model your brother is touting, it is just guessing.

I have shot real submachine guns and the half life of the fun factor is pretty short. I doubt I would want one even if not so heavily restricted.

I think a SBR would be a fine home or vehicle defense weapon but wonder what the legal ramifications would be. M. Ayoob once wrote up a case of a guy defending himself with a legally held automatic rifle. It handled the tactical threat very well, but the hassle of actually shooting a crook with a NFA gun was extensive. He said he would stick to semiautos for protection in the future.

I think the "arm brace" will go the way of the bump stock when one shows up in a high profile crime.

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

I am curious who this company is that sellsnout immediately on their 9mm guns? Anybody?

 

[AlexanderA]

I think the "arm brace" will go the way of the bump stock when one shows up in a high profile crime.

I don't understand the appeal of an AR "pistol" with an "arm brace" as a workaround for the SBR rules. You can use a 16" barrel with a slipover flash hider and a standard telescoping stock (making a >26" overall length in the extended position) to create a convincing XM177 clone. This would not be an SBR.

 

[Hasaf]

I do get the point that those of you that do not like the semi-auto variants of the sub guns, and the arm braces. I enjoy taking my CZ Scorpion when I go to the range, it is just a fun gun to shoot.

That being said, there is a picture of it, a braced pistol, next to a "full-sized" 9mm rifle (a High-Point/High-Tower bullpup). There isn't a big size advantage.


They are both fun to shoot.

 

[GBExpat]

I first seriously considered buying a sub gun in the mid'70s. The fellow at Atlantic & Pacific Arms in VaB was really pushing a .45acp Ingram + one of those unique & excellent suppressors in my direction.

Beyond the initial costs ($175/ea for subgun & silencer + $200/ea for tax stamps) there were two things that caused me to turn away from the deal:

1 - feeding costs.

... and if that, alone, weren't enough ...

2 - relative to the potential of using it for SD/HD, an automatic firearm just seemed to be the antithesis to the I-Am-Responsible-For-Every-Bullet-I-Fire attitude.that I was inculcating.

 

[Drail]

Buzzy little subguns are great if you are not paying for the ammo.

 

[Speedo66]

OP: Are you referring to Kel-Tec Sub-2000 folding carbines? I enjoy mine, a 9mm Glock version. Fun gun that could certainly have HD capabilities.

And it folds! Fits nicely in a shoulder carried, no second look, laptop bag that you can take anywhere.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

My Beretta CX4 in 9mm is a good choice for a PCC. Its uses Beretta 92 mags with up 30 rounds. Its accurate and soft shooting. Its compact compared to other models, making it very handy.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

I'm not really a sub gun fan and don't see any special appeal to them, but I do want one of those Kel Tec Sub 2000s. A 4 pound rifle that folds in half? Yes please....