9X25mm for Self Defense Round?

[DFW1911]

All,

What are your thoughts on the 9X25mm (10mm necked down to fire 9mm bullet - think .40 S&W to .357 Sig) as a defense round?

I've never fired one, but I can imagine:

A lot of noise.
A lot of muzzle blast.
A lot of stunned onlookers.

On one hand it seems like this could really be a solid SD performer if used with the RIGHT bullet.

On the other it seems like it would over penetrate like crazy...if used with ANY bullet.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
DFW1911

 

[fletcher]

(Subscribed)

This sounds interesting.

 

[bogie]

Oh, why...

IIRC, that's the dealie that the handgunners invented to replace the .38 Super, because they kept blowing stuff up while trying to make major, right? And they were trying to hot-rod a little cartridge to keep up with a normal load for a well known, well used, and well established cartridge.

.45 ACP

 

[revjen45]

Sounds REAL interesting. Maybe with the right loads it could be a cheap replacement for the CERN Particle Accelerator.

 

[JesseL]

Sounds roughly comparable to .357 Magnum with medium to heavy bullets.

 

[JohnKSa]

On the other it seems like it would over penetrate like crazy...if used with ANY bullet.

Odds are it will underpenetrate if used with expanding ammo. Driving an expanding bullet designed for 9mm or .357SIG velocities to 9x25 speeds will likely result in fragmentation/bullet failure. That's a recipe for large temporary cavities and shallow penetration.

 

[Evil Monkey]

WHat about 45 necked down to 115gr 9mm?

 

[Soybomb]

I'm with JohnKSa , I haven't seen any popular .357sig loads that made me think "wow all that needs is even more velocity." I think you'll find better performance, at least from the standards I believe are the closest to being correct from a 10mm load. Of course I've always thought the .357 sig loads would perform better with 147gr bullets but those seem to be very rare to start with.

 

[LeonCarr]

I believe the 9x25 Dillon (10mm necked down to 9mm) is the round that USPSA guy Rob Leatham used to use in his compensated open class racegun, and the shock wave coming from the compensator ports gave him migrane headaches and loosened the fillings in his teeth .

115 grain bullet at 1600 fps or something like that. I believe the Double Tap ammunition guy loads it, and also has Bar-Sto barrels in 9x25 Dillon that drop into a 10mm Glock.

If you decide to shoot it in a ported gun, make sure you have good dental insurance.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[nicholst55]

I think I'd try something with less muzzle blast and recoil. Like a 2" .357 with 125 JHP rounds.

 

[bogie]

Campers, the reason WHY they use the overbore/light bullet loads is twofold...

Light bullet moves fast, but the speed works for making major. After all, they're punching paper, not plates...

The heavy power load works with the compensator to keep things inline. Some of the comps are actually designed for different powder loads.

 

[DFW1911]

If you decide to shoot it in a ported gun, make sure you have good dental insurance.

and

I think I'd try something with less muzzle blast and recoil. Like a 2" .357 with 125 JHP rounds.

are two of the funniest things I've read on here in a while!!!

How about Evil Monkey's recommendations of a necked down .45? Is that feasible and / or has it already been done?

Thanks for your answers so far.

Take care,
DFW1911

 

[novaDAK]

How about Evil Monkey's recommendations of a necked down .45? Is that feasible and / or has it already been done?

I don't know if its ever been necked down to 9mm, but the .45acp has been necked down to 10mm...called the .400 CorBon. Gives you the power of a 10mm, using .45acp magazines and guns. Plus the added bonus of the "better feed reliability" of a bottlenecked cartridge.

 

[Charles S]

How about Evil Monkey's recommendations of a necked down .45? Is that feasible and / or has it already been done?

It has been done several times under several names, the one I recall is the 38 Casull (true 357 diameter not 355) IIRC.

.38 Casull ballistics:

124 grain @ 1,800 ft/sec / 892 ft-lbs
147 grain @ 1600 ft/sec / 836 ft-lbs

 

[DFW1911]

Thanks nova and Charles - very interesting info. I've heard of the .400 CorBon but never really checked into it. I've never heard of the 38 Casull.

I'm beginning to get the idea that pretty much everything has been tried in cartridge configurations.

Thanks again for the help.

Take care,
DFW1911

 

[ClarkEMyers]

I'd expect the 9x25 to work but to offer no advantage over lighter loads.

I'd expect the 9x25 to work but to offer no advantage over lighter loads.

As I understand it CorBon loads their 9X23 ammunition to match their .38 Auto +P (.38 Super) loads because the loads max out on the gelatine tests so far as Federal Agency specifications go. That is although the 9X23 could be loaded for more velocity - higher energy - there is no improvement for shooting gelatine. Even more speed from a 9X25 then would add nothing to terminal ballistics.

To go to the time and trouble of a wildcat 9X25 and reduced magazine capacity I'd need a theory that accounted for improved performance and I don't have it.

I could see the 9X25 in a race gun setup with optical sights for prairie dogs/ ground squirrels at eyeballed intermediate ranges where the flatter shooting would give more first shot hits - but even there such varmint shooting is a social activity and the 9X25 isn't a friendly cartridge - might as well shoot a full length .22/.308 with a fancy muzzle brake to annoy people in the neighborhood.

Might as well use a .460 Rowland and have it all - and no advantage over a .45 ACP for self defense.