A few questions regarding emergency rifles

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armoredman

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If you kept a rifle/carbine for emergencies AWAY from home, say backpacking, flying a light plane, at the lake, cabin, etc., what features of the following would you be looking for? Please remember, this is NOT a SHTF or Zombie apocolypse thread, but for what suprises you might encounter out in nature when you AREN'T hunting or target shooting, in the real world.

1 Bolt/lever/semi/single shot? Please, must be legal for you to own and use.
2 Wood/polymer stock?
3 Fixed or folding stock?
4 Weight limit - remember, you might be backpacking with it.
5 Sights, fixed/adjustable/scope only?
6 Optics or not/what kind?
7 Easy to carry spare ammo/magazines/speedloaders?
8 Ease of concealment from the curious sheeple wandering the same trail?
9 Amount of ammunition carried in the magazine/tube?

I have this concept I am kicking around, curious to see what others think.
 
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I have 3 that stay somewhere other than a safe, a single shot plastic stock shotgun, a lever action center fire rifle and a semi auto .22.

They are in different locations and intended uses are quite different. To fill voids between are other "carry" rifles or pistols.
 
light aircraft, non shtf/zomiblicious world....

Action wouldn't matter but I'd probably go with a bolt or lever since psychologically it makes you count on each shot more.
Polymer stock - less to take care of
Semi-quick release optic 1-4x probably. Do you carry a leatherman or similar?
Spare ammo in a pouch attached to the sling - move immediately to belt when firearm is deployed because you don't want that swinging and affecting aim but you DO want it on the rifle when grabbed.
Concealment shouldn't matter if you have something that Looks semi-civilian.

My personal trunkgun at the moment is a 'pseudo-scout' Ishapore 2A1 in 7.62x51 with a 16-inch barrel and an FAL flashhider. (Yeah, it's quite literally a 'blast' to shoot) and two spare 12-round magazines.
 
1 - Semiauto
2 - Polymer. Wood can warp if left in poor storage conditions.
3 - Folding, preferably still allowing the gun to be fired with the stock folded. A collapsible stock like that found on the M4 would also be acceptable.
4 - 7 lbs. max
5 - Iron sights, preferably an aperture type. The iron sights found on non-American style CZ rifles are also very good. Maybe a compact low/fixed power scope. Definitely nothing that depends on batteries.
6 - These questions overlap. See above.
7 - Detachable box magazines hold the ammo in a single location - as well as more of it - and can be reloaded quickly.
8 - Even with a folding stock, nothing short of a trench coat is going to conceal any long gun.
9 - I would not want less than 10 rounds and would prefer 20 or even 30, my biggest reason for favoring a box magazine.

To me, this has something like that Kel-Tec .223 rifle with the folding stock that allows firing while still folded written all over it. I saw a stainless Ruger Mini-14 at a gun show (Kingsport) yesterday with a collapsible stock, and this would also be acceptable. (I don't know if it was a factory option or user added.) One thing you didn't specify is what you would shoot with the rifle. I assume it would be for defense against predatory animal (whether two-legged or four) attack. If it is to be used for foraging small game in a survival situation, the .223 won't leave you much to eat.
 
Yes, I left that part blank deliberately, as when you use a rifle for emergencies you can't pick your targets, whether moose or squirrel. So caliber is left up to you, whatever you feel comfrtable with for handling all emergencies "out there".
The optics question kinda overlaps but doesn't, as traditional hunting style rifles came without iron sights, but many military style semi autos, levers and milsurps do come with iron sights.
 
Stainless steel 10/22 in a stainless/polymer folding stock. I have a machine gun spare barrel bag that I keep mine in along with a couple loaded hi cap mags for it. I want to add a few 50 rd boxes of amo that has been vacuum sealed, but never got around to it. I keep the rifle wrapped in small towel that I sprayed with rem oil and both are zipped up in the spare barrel bag. The mags are in a ziploc bag in the small outer zipper pocket.

I keep the whole thing in my truck in the cubby where my jack, jumper cables, and tire patch kit stay. I have taken it out a few times for impromptu plinking, but it's like insurance knowing that If I ever needed to shoot something for the stew pot I have that ability. I also know that I'd feel alot more secure holding a rifle (even though it's only a .22) than my compact 9mm which is what I usually carry.

The pistol gripped stock and large magazine also looks more threatening if you are forced into a defensive posture and facing most thugs.

In my AO large predators aren't an issue. The few bears one might encounter are shy, no wolves, coyotes and wild dogs can easily be kept at bay with a .22 and Gators are usually hunted with a .22. Two legged predators are really the only thing I worry about, and my hand gun is a far better deterrent to carjacking than a rifle.

If you aren't in a combat situation or in an area with dangerous predator, .22 is the best thing you could hope to have for day to day survival. by having your .22 being capable of a sustained, high rate of fire, you can get through just about any situation you're likely to find yourself in.

I wouldn't choose to attack a bear with my 10/22, but if I had to defend myself from one or a moose, I feel confident that I could scare one off with a magazine of well place .22s as long as I had some sort of defensible terrain feature.

While I could press a .22 into occasional short range defensive use against an attacking person,, predator, or rapid animal, my first concern would be small animals for the stew pot. In a long term emergency (having to wait a month or more for an injury from a crash to heal, or for a rescue party to find you) a powerful rifle is overkill. Even if you got a deer or other large animal, how would you preserve the meat? What is the weight of the rifle plus a month's worth of cartridges? Would you have any mewt left after shooting a rabbit or squirrel? Even if you pullet the bullet and reduced your powder load, how confident would you be about how that would affect the POI?
 
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Of the guns I already own, my favorite for keeping in the trunk when I head off to the mountains is my M1 Carbine, with four 15-round mags of .30 Soft Points in the case. Mine has the fixed stock, and is pretty accurate with the adjustable receiver sight. If I had one with the folding stock, I'd probably use it by preference.
 
In a downed aircraft situation with limited space/weight, a 10/22 would be my choice as well. Even up here in Alaska. People tend to forget that you can eat things like raven/crow, and anything much more powerful than a .22lr will ruin a lot of meat. And while it is >>FAR FAR<< from ideal for the situation, a very close shot on a small 'bou with a .22 is likely to down the animal.

Rabbit, squirrel, pheasant, grouse, ptarmigan, duck, geese, there are all sorts of small critters that can contribute to one's survival that anything larger than a .22 will ruin.
 
If you need something for bigger animals a marlin 336 carries real nice and doesn't beat the heck out of you when you shoot. Just plain iron sights or a peep. It also looks very benign and not the slightest bit evil or black if youre worried about your impression on other people on the trail. If you just want to be ready to shoot food, one of those little collapsible ar-7s would be pretty awesome.
 
My suggestion would be to leave something as a "backup/emergency" that shares common ammo with whatever you're probably going to be using as a "primary" if you're leaving it in a cabin. Reason: you're more likely to loose/forget the ammo than the rifle. Hence, my "leave at the cabin gun" matches (in ammo) my primary deer rifle (as well as most of the other folks that hunt there).

If you're talking about a backup/emergency gun, consider one of the Rossi matched set single shots. I think a youth-sized .243/20 ga. would be perfect and they come with their own little carrying case. You can get the whole setup for around $200. Throw on a decent compact scope (Weaver 1-3x20) and you're golden for just about anything from ducks to elk.
 
The AR 7 gives you the limited performance of a .22, the low ammo capacity of a revolver, and the accuracy of a shotgun. To top it all off, it isn't easy to mount a scope of any kind to, and it has the annoying tend to misfeed and double.

Anyone that would advocate an AR7 has either been far luckier than I was with the 2 I owned, or has never spent any real time with them in the woods.

They do float though.

I see all these recomendations for big caliber guns and I wonder if anyone has given any thought to the idea that if you are in an emergency, alot of things went wrong, including, but not limited to:

-you're injured
-you're stranded in the wilderness
-you're cut off from supplies
-you have no way to communicate
-you don't have refrigeration
-you don't have good shelter
-you have been separated from your supplies

It always amazes me how many people think that just because they are a good shot they can hunt. Getting meat under ideal conditions isn't always easy, doing so when you're hurt, exhausted, and near hypothermia is alot harder.

Under those conditions, you need to eat whatever you can get that's close and can be boiled into a broth with calories. Crow, dog, even insects if that's all you can get.

Thnking that you can track a whitetail, shoot it, gut it, pack it to a campsite, and then preserve it with whatever you can salvage from a wreck is incredibly optimistic. Doing so with an injury is impossible.

Even if you did the impossible, you then created a situation where because of the meat you brought into your camp, you attracted every scavenger imaginable and now you can't hike out because you have an extra 50 lbs of meat to take with you.

I recently bought a ruger charger and I've been considering mounting it in a folding stock and doing the SBR paperwork. It would be even better than what I've been using.
 
I see all these recomendations for big caliber guns and I wonder if anyone has given any thought to the idea that if you are in an emergency, alot of things went wrong, including, but not limited to:


-you're injured

-you're stranded in the wilderness

-you're cut off from supplies

-you have no way to communicate

-you don't have refrigeration

-you don't have good shelter

-you have been separated from your supplies

I never had any of those emergencys except #1 and #4 and a gun wouldn't have helped, or at least didn't. Mine would be more like "The fish are not biting." "The rabbits are eating the flowers again." "If I had a rifle or shotgun it would be better for this shot than this pistol I have."

I guess I look at guns that are always in any one location, like my first aid kits, as "emergency". If I am going somewhere that would or could put me into an "emergency" like most of yours I would spend more time avoiding them and likey use a different firearm than the ones I have around the house, shop and farm.
 
I have an SKS I have Tapcoed and Tech-Sighted. It's my primary out-in-the-dirt rifle. For a few reasons. It's not expensive or irreplaceable. It's very effective for anything I need to use it for. It can take a lot of dirt and abuse and keep running.

As far as whether or not it should be a .22, well. I look at it this way. I don't plan on surviving on squirrels and rabbits. If you try, you will find they don't have enough protein to sustain you for a long time anyway. I would rather try to keep a larger group of people together, and hunt bigger game. I do like pheasants and grouse, and to be honest, I've never tried to shoot them with a .22, I don't know if I could or not. I can use a bigger rifle to defend myself. If I had to defend myself, I wouldn't prefer to do it with a .22. I've been thinking about this a lot more lately, because in the last couple of years, in several places I like to recreate, they have found very large pot farms. If the administrator of such an operation stumbled onto me, it is entirely possible I might be glad I had more than a .22.
 
If you kept a rifle/carbine for emergencies AWAY from home,.... Please remember, this is NOT a SHTF or Zombie apocolypse thread, but for what suprises you might encounter out in nature when you AREN'T hunting or target shooting, in the real world


The question is pretty "real world" to me, I generally carry a rifle when out walking, which can be about daily. I've carried a Winchester 94 carbine about as much as anything, but have been carrying more potent guns more often since the bears (grizzlies) have been getting more plentiful and frisky. My thoughts are having decent reach, at least 200 yards accurately (300 is better), and reasonable power. I carry a handful of small game loads most of the time in addition to regular full power stuff. Part of my desire is to be able to reliably cover my dogs in case they got into a jam. There is no question about the number of large predators in the area. When I go farther out in the mountains, I take basic stuff, but dont plan on an expedition. If I had to feed myself, I could, on small or larger critters, but the likleyhood of that is very remote. Jerking meat is pretty simple if you had to keep some a while.

There aren't many places that it would take very long to walk out of in the lower 48. If you couldnt walk, that's another story, and things just changed. You do whatever you need to until you can get out. In my case, I wouldn't expect anyone to come looking for me. I'm usually alone, I rarely tell anyone where I'm going, even that I'm going, or when I'll be back, and usually don't know where I'm going until I get there. Cell phones rarely work in the mountains unless you can get way up high on a peak, even then they are iffy. For me, a good centerfire rifle and sixgun, and at some times of the year, a K-22 also. A scoped bolt 308, 30-06, or a Winchester model 71 are what I take most often now. Have to see how the 356 cal 94 works out.

As for "needing" a rifle, mostly I've shot snakes in the lower elevations, a porcupine once, and had a bear want to come into camp, but didnt when the dogs went ballistic barking at it. Probably would have pepper sprayed it if it came in. Had the 45-70 in hand tho. No big deal, that's just life. There's been no time I wished I'd left the rifle behind. "Bear protection" makes for great internet forum threads, usually fillled with comments from people that don't live around them or never interact with bears, but its for real here. That's probably the main reason I always carry a rifle. Despite internet lore, bears arent bullet proof or all that tough to kill most of the time.

A 22 would work for many things, but I just like more power aand reach where I am. I agree that the ar-7's arent the most reliable things going, but as a hunting gun, thats not as much of an issue as for other reasons. They seem to fire OK, they just don't always cycle. I think good hunting guns are far better "survival" guns than anything I've ever seen that wore the name "survival", and far more likely to be in your hand when you need it.
 
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My emergency rifle would be a shotgun - 12 GA. ...much more versitile than any rifle.
 
An AR-7?
Shirley you jest.
I think they only made one of them that worked right, and the president of the company kept it!

Either a .22 semi-auto for the lower 48, or perhaps a 30-30 levergun or 30-06 bolt-action for up north.

Leave the battery operated sights off of it.
The batterys will be dead the first and only time you ever really need it!

rc
 
I had an Ar-7 in the mid 80s, worked fantastic. Had to sell it, bought another about 10 years later, it was a civil servant - won't work and couldn't fire it.
Thank you for the replies, very insterested to see what real worlders use/would use.
 
I have a rifle for that, Keltec SU16 C with QD rings and a 1-4 scope mounted, backup irons still in place. I also have a B model that works just as well. Both fold into a very small package, the B has the advantage of storage for a spare 30 round mag in the butt, the C can be fired when folded.
 
Since we're throwing ideas out, I'd have to say some sort of lever gun in a "trapper" configuration. To me, "emergency" means fast into action, if you need it AND not much to think about when grabbing it. Again, TO ME, that means no mags to worry about (or forget/lose).

I used to take a little AR15 with me when I went in the woods, but after the black gun fascination wore off, I started to notice things like how bulky and uncomfortable it was. These days, I grab my 16" .357 lever gun. It packs a pretty good punch. Is fast and easy to reload/top off and it's might handy. If .357 isn't enough, pick your caliber. They can be had in cals up to .45-70, although .44 mag might be a good compromise. As for small game, I like to keep a little plain ole Ruger Mark II with a standard barrel. The pistol, two mags and a couple hundred rounds of ammo take up almost no room in a sack.
 
I've been carrying this one with me for years and years, flying, canoeing, car, ATV and every other mode of travel,

orig.jpg

Goes together in seconds, scope snaps on in seconds, and ALWAYS goes back dead on to where i sighted it in.

High powered rifle, shotgun and rimfire, at my disposal at a moments notice!

DM
 
If you kept a rifle/carbine for emergencies AWAY from home, say backpacking, flying a light plane, at the lake, cabin, etc., what features of the following would you be looking for?
The inscription D-Technik. :D

In all seriousness, that would be what I consider a near perfect emergency rifle unless you are in a remote locale. Another good-un, perhaps better suited to the task that the first would be a M1 Carbine, like USSR suggested.

1 Bolt/lever/semi/single shot? SA-preferred, but not required, but definitely a repeater
2 Wood/polymer stock? Poly preferred, but not required
3 Fixed or folding stock? Folding
4 Weight limit - remember, you might be backpacking with it. 6.5lbs maximum (rifle only)
5 Sights, fixed/adjustable/scope only? Irons (preferably adjustable with sight ears)
6 Optics or not/what kind? None for me, but a low-powered, lightweight optic would be tolerable (but BUIS are requisite)
7 Easy to carry spare ammo/magazines/speedloaders? Perhaps one extra magazine, if possible several extra clips would be handy to reload magazine/rifle
8 Ease of concealment from the curious sheeple wandering the same trail? Not necessary, but pack-ability/compactness would be desired
9 Amount of ammunition carried in the magazine/tube? compact magazines preferred (10-20 cartridges)

If long stints are a possibility (trekking in remote locales) then something with a bit more versatility would be desirable. Personally my ideal rifle would be a double rifle or drilling with a combination of a .460S&W/.410 (threaded for external chokes for to stabilize the .410 shot; two of these in the case of a drilling) and .22LR. This gives you the capability of hunting anything from squirrel to dove to moose, and would serve as an excellent self-defense rifle, even if stranded in big bear country. Additionally one would be able to break down the rifle for backpacking/storage/concealment when/where required.

:)
 
Looks like most of the posters here skipped the backpacking part, unless you enjoy carrying a 8lb rifle and 100 rds of ammo you very likely won't need.
Weight is every thing to a backpacker. I carry a .22 pistol as a food getter/survival tool when on foot, Unless near Salmon rivers where bears may be a factor, Then I put up with a light 12 gauge pump with small amounts of slug and shot ammo.

Plane/cabin/boat completely different world, any big game rifle and a .22.

In a real jam would swap them all for a sat phone though.
 
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