I am with you on this one, vis-à-vis. Considering all of the things that you have said happened at that bus stop that you have to wait at everyday, I would do the same thing. Possibly carry your gun and the baton, so you have more than one option. I don't know your situation, but obviously since you work there, you know the best place to stash (store) your firearm without it being found. Your life is more important than UPS.
A group of men threatend to Sodomize me tonight.
- Thread starter vis-à-vis
- Start date
- Status
I am with you on this one, vis-à-vis. Considering all of the things that you have said happened at that bus stop that you have to wait at everyday, I would do the same thing. Possibly carry your gun and the baton, so you have more than one option. I don't know your situation, but obviously since you work there, you know the best place to stash (store) your firearm without it being found. Your life is more important than UPS.
Call me an idiot, but i'd carry anyways. Your life is more important than your job. I'd just take the care to make sure nobody knows I'm carrying, and if something were to happen it's better safe than sorry. That is assuming that you at least have a concealed carry permit for your state and won't get charged with a felony for possession.
*edit* just noticed the "bloodlust" sticky...don't want to lose my THR membership now, do I?
*edit* just noticed the "bloodlust" sticky...don't want to lose my THR membership now, do I?
vis-à-vis
Member
In KY carrying without a permit is a Class A Misdemeanor lol.
I have a CCDW.
Something else happened tonight though. This is sick. Ready to read it???
Tonight, on the way to work, I saw something rather disturbing. When I reached the place where I am to catch another bus for work there exists a small park across the street. As I was standing there, I realized that there was a group of homosexual men blowing each other in the park.
Ack!
Now I have no phone and I cannot leave because it is my only shot to get to work. So I could not inform any cop. After a few minutes they finish up whilst sitting around and fondling each other, one decides to get up and approach me. I refuse to turn my back to anyone I encounter in this area and he is no different.
He looks at me and as he is crossing the street this fellow constantly grabs himself. So I begin to move and he comes toward. I am thinking to myself, "Damn it, what the ####," to be perfectly honest and so he gets close to me. I don't say much of anything to him so he trys to put himself within my "personal bubble." That space of 2-3 feet around any person which should be reserved for intimate occasions (apparently this guy felt he wanted to get intimate). When he did that I decided I was going to have to knock his block off. I positioned myself so, and he stopped. He tried to chit chat, but I was disinclined to talk to him. I moved farther away and he tried to come closer. This time I pulled my shirt up to expose my ASP. Escalation?
Ack!
He backs off and wanders down the road. That group has been there before, I just never realized what they were doing. I am calling the police tomorrow to ask for increased patrol on that road and especially for them to either walk the park or cruise by it with their searchlight focusing on the park.
Is that jacked up or what?!?!
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
In retrospect I did not use a command voice to say "GET THE EFF AWAY FROM ME YOU DIRTY PERVERT" I will do so next time. I just kinda froze. Didn't know what to say.
Am I doing something to promote this BS? I guess Im not a scary dude. I just want to go to work lol.
I told my high up superviser. He told me I should definitely carry a weapon, just hide it or place it somewhere before I enter security. He wouldn't tell says he.
I have a CCDW.
Something else happened tonight though. This is sick. Ready to read it???
Tonight, on the way to work, I saw something rather disturbing. When I reached the place where I am to catch another bus for work there exists a small park across the street. As I was standing there, I realized that there was a group of homosexual men blowing each other in the park.
Ack!
Now I have no phone and I cannot leave because it is my only shot to get to work. So I could not inform any cop. After a few minutes they finish up whilst sitting around and fondling each other, one decides to get up and approach me. I refuse to turn my back to anyone I encounter in this area and he is no different.
He looks at me and as he is crossing the street this fellow constantly grabs himself. So I begin to move and he comes toward. I am thinking to myself, "Damn it, what the ####," to be perfectly honest and so he gets close to me. I don't say much of anything to him so he trys to put himself within my "personal bubble." That space of 2-3 feet around any person which should be reserved for intimate occasions (apparently this guy felt he wanted to get intimate). When he did that I decided I was going to have to knock his block off. I positioned myself so, and he stopped. He tried to chit chat, but I was disinclined to talk to him. I moved farther away and he tried to come closer. This time I pulled my shirt up to expose my ASP. Escalation?
Ack!
He backs off and wanders down the road. That group has been there before, I just never realized what they were doing. I am calling the police tomorrow to ask for increased patrol on that road and especially for them to either walk the park or cruise by it with their searchlight focusing on the park.
Is that jacked up or what?!?!
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:In retrospect I did not use a command voice to say "GET THE EFF AWAY FROM ME YOU DIRTY PERVERT" I will do so next time. I just kinda froze. Didn't know what to say.
Am I doing something to promote this BS? I guess Im not a scary dude. I just want to go to work lol.
I told my high up superviser. He told me I should definitely carry a weapon, just hide it or place it somewhere before I enter security. He wouldn't tell says he.
DeltaGunner
member
Bad Mojo
I've read this 5 page post, man it is bad news, if it's all true I'd be killing some pole smokin' SOB.
X california lived there 22 years, carried anyway, all the time just a cheaper 6 shooter.
Tennessee now for 12 years been carrying legal. all the time, except where metal detectors would send me up river.
versus an eminent killing going down I'd be hunting a job or car, something would have to give. Even a righteous shootings gonna land you arrested, and loss of you pop gun til it's sorted out. If you have any other fire arms in your home they'll confiscate them also, until it's sorted out. This is 1st hand experience, and it took over 6 months to regain my weapons, and over 4 k in attorney fee's.
Your jobs not worth that hassle..........
I've read this 5 page post, man it is bad news, if it's all true I'd be killing some pole smokin' SOB.
X california lived there 22 years, carried anyway, all the time just a cheaper 6 shooter.
Tennessee now for 12 years been carrying legal. all the time, except where metal detectors would send me up river.
versus an eminent killing going down I'd be hunting a job or car, something would have to give. Even a righteous shootings gonna land you arrested, and loss of you pop gun til it's sorted out. If you have any other fire arms in your home they'll confiscate them also, until it's sorted out. This is 1st hand experience, and it took over 6 months to regain my weapons, and over 4 k in attorney fee's.
Your jobs not worth that hassle..........
Hello vis-a-vis, I used to work at that UPS (I'm assuming you work at the main "hub") in Wing B loading cans.
Not to be stereotypical, but do you live in the West End? I guess this all could be happening in the Highlands or the East End, no place is immune, but it seems like you're in an unusually rough area. I don't live in Louisville, but I'm there frequently (as I live 15 minutes away). I realize this is easier said than done (much easier) but have you considered moving across town, or at least getting out of that area? I lived in Germantown for a while, and it wasn't totally safe by any means, but it seems like a better area than where you're . A friend of mine lives on Southern Pkwy and I go down there often, and it's rough, but not like this. I'm not doubting you by any means, I just don't see much of this at all. Again, not being stereotypical, but I DO stay out of the West End. Maybe I just haven't experienced Louisville as much as I thought.
I sympathize with you on the UPS/weapon thing. I wasn't carrying when I was working there (three years ago), but I know they're pretty extensive with their searches (I wore steel-toed boots everyday, I constantly got "wanded"), that's a tough situation.
If you ever want to do some good 'ol down-in-the-woods plinking, assuming you don't have much options in Louisville, get in touch.
Not to be stereotypical, but do you live in the West End? I guess this all could be happening in the Highlands or the East End, no place is immune, but it seems like you're in an unusually rough area. I don't live in Louisville, but I'm there frequently (as I live 15 minutes away). I realize this is easier said than done (much easier) but have you considered moving across town, or at least getting out of that area? I lived in Germantown for a while, and it wasn't totally safe by any means, but it seems like a better area than where you're . A friend of mine lives on Southern Pkwy and I go down there often, and it's rough, but not like this. I'm not doubting you by any means, I just don't see much of this at all. Again, not being stereotypical, but I DO stay out of the West End. Maybe I just haven't experienced Louisville as much as I thought.
I sympathize with you on the UPS/weapon thing. I wasn't carrying when I was working there (three years ago), but I know they're pretty extensive with their searches (I wore steel-toed boots everyday, I constantly got "wanded"), that's a tough situation.
If you ever want to do some good 'ol down-in-the-woods plinking, assuming you don't have much options in Louisville, get in touch.
Working Man
Member
I second that..... options, any options are good. Look into taking some
classes as well both for defensive shooting and the baton. The information
learned from the classes as well as the physicality will help restore your
confidence and therefore make you look less the victim. Fear is a bad
downward spiral and is confusion at its greatest. When you know what to
do you are less afraid.
For improvised.....
I have always liked the length of rope and 2 links of heavy chain.
frank23185
Member
Dude, your like a gay magnet, or something...
bogie
Member
Oh, fachrissake...
A few years back, someone called and bitched at the local po-po until they started patrolling the area of St. Louis' Forest Park known as the "fruit loop." Well, guess what - the activities moved into the surrounding neighborhoods...
A few years back, someone called and bitched at the local po-po until they started patrolling the area of St. Louis' Forest Park known as the "fruit loop." Well, guess what - the activities moved into the surrounding neighborhoods...
vis-à-vis
Member
Well shoot, Bogie, I can't just do nothing.
I am partial to women myself.
"watch out for your cornhole, bud." - Lawrence from Office Space
I am serious here, but have you considered going and talking to your boss about what you are going thru to show up for work? I would inform him directly and tell him you would like some suggestions as to what he thinks you can do to improve your situation. I would also send him an Email the next day saying more or less....."Boss, thanks for taking the time to talk to me about the safety issues I am dealing with in getting back and forth to work. .....Vis"
This does two things, One, it puts them on the hot seat in that you are describing to them how you feel their corporate position is causing you to be insecure, in both meanings of the word. Two, it also puts it into writing that you have brought the subject up. After a month or two if nothing is offered, try to bring up the message again and again send an email to corroborate the story.
This does a couple of things, IF something horrible DOES occur on your way to work, a good lawyer will set you for life in the fact that they denied your safety was an issue. Second, it forces them to reconsider how they respond to this issue.
My wife forced a fairly large company to change its position on this by doing just this, she was having to work at all hours, monitoring a system that was partially robotic and partially manually controlled, when the machines went down, she was automatically paged and she had to go in. This has been her pattern of work for the last 20 plus years and several years ago had an issue with someone who would not leave her alone at work even after he was fired. She went to her boss three or more times and then HR a couple of more times before they realized that by preventing her from managing her own selfdefense, they were opening themselves up to a monster lawsuit should the wackjob do something stupid. (mind you most of the time when she had to go in at 3AM to a urban factory she was carrying anyway, or I was driving her and I was carrying and had other tools in the vehicle.) Press the issue, companies are responsible for actions that occur to their employees off campus, if those actions could have been prevented by proper employer actions.
This does two things, One, it puts them on the hot seat in that you are describing to them how you feel their corporate position is causing you to be insecure, in both meanings of the word. Two, it also puts it into writing that you have brought the subject up. After a month or two if nothing is offered, try to bring up the message again and again send an email to corroborate the story.
This does a couple of things, IF something horrible DOES occur on your way to work, a good lawyer will set you for life in the fact that they denied your safety was an issue. Second, it forces them to reconsider how they respond to this issue.
My wife forced a fairly large company to change its position on this by doing just this, she was having to work at all hours, monitoring a system that was partially robotic and partially manually controlled, when the machines went down, she was automatically paged and she had to go in. This has been her pattern of work for the last 20 plus years and several years ago had an issue with someone who would not leave her alone at work even after he was fired. She went to her boss three or more times and then HR a couple of more times before they realized that by preventing her from managing her own selfdefense, they were opening themselves up to a monster lawsuit should the wackjob do something stupid. (mind you most of the time when she had to go in at 3AM to a urban factory she was carrying anyway, or I was driving her and I was carrying and had other tools in the vehicle.) Press the issue, companies are responsible for actions that occur to their employees off campus, if those actions could have been prevented by proper employer actions.
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
Some thoughts to ballast this conversation, lest it get any further off the rails:
* Rape is not about sex. It is entirely about violence and domination. In environments where the "pecking order" is of utmost importance, such as prisons, nothing clarifies the pecking order more clearly than who can rape whom. When coupled with other criminal activities, as some posters point out, it provides a motivation for the victim to remain silent.
* There is an entirely separate phenomenon called situational homosexuality that occurs when some people are trapped in single sex environments for protracted periods. Although a genuine homosexual who is conflicted on that matter may find the situation to be an "excuse" to manifest homosexual behavior, the extraordinary social environmental pressures make the situation distinct from normal modes of homosexuality
Once again, prisons come to the forefront in this phenomenon.
* Since both of these phenomena take place in, and interweave in prisons, the whole thing presents as a singular phenomena, but its not fully understood unless you pick its major components apart
* The integration of threatened rape into trash/tough guy talk is most likely another aspect of prison culture making it out into the street.
* The issues of clandestine homosexual activity in public but seculuded places, homosexual promiscuity, and so forth are again an entirely separate topic, with its own history, background and sociology.
* Rape is not about sex. It is entirely about violence and domination. In environments where the "pecking order" is of utmost importance, such as prisons, nothing clarifies the pecking order more clearly than who can rape whom. When coupled with other criminal activities, as some posters point out, it provides a motivation for the victim to remain silent.
* There is an entirely separate phenomenon called situational homosexuality that occurs when some people are trapped in single sex environments for protracted periods. Although a genuine homosexual who is conflicted on that matter may find the situation to be an "excuse" to manifest homosexual behavior, the extraordinary social environmental pressures make the situation distinct from normal modes of homosexuality
Once again, prisons come to the forefront in this phenomenon.
* Since both of these phenomena take place in, and interweave in prisons, the whole thing presents as a singular phenomena, but its not fully understood unless you pick its major components apart
* The integration of threatened rape into trash/tough guy talk is most likely another aspect of prison culture making it out into the street.
* The issues of clandestine homosexual activity in public but seculuded places, homosexual promiscuity, and so forth are again an entirely separate topic, with its own history, background and sociology.
entropy
Member
Doc2005-Like Jeet, I call bullhockey on the above claim, and I proved it to a TKD Black belt, who wanted a 'patsy' to play the "armed agressor" in his little demonstration of disarming someone. I started out at a regular 'street' holding-a-gun-on-someone stance, and immediately went onto a retention stance with my 6" Troooper when he actually got around to doing the roundhouse kick he telegraphed long before he initiated it. He did NOT know I had primered cases in the Trooper, and after the bang (he had not made contact and I would have had had a nice COM 'hit' on him.)I turned and told the audience [our social studies class] "this is why you do not use martial arts to disarm someone. There are more effective methods."
He was seething-hopping mad, (I though they taught anger control and redirection in TKD?) from the surprise of the round and the humiliation. But if I saved one life with that demonstration, it was worth it.I know he didn't learn from it, because he wanted to take on four Marines fresh out of Pendelton one night. His girlfriend and her best friend (both brown belts then) talked him out of it.
Xenia
Member
vis-a-vis said:
NO!
You are doing nothing to promote or encourage this. They are using intimidation on you. I think it is mostly to get you to be quiet and not give them any trouble. They sound like a gang to me.
Most men who are raped (and yes, it does happen!) are raped by strangers who attack them and the attacks are in groups. (Only one person might do the deed.) But typically it is by heterosexual men who attack someone as a way of establishing dominance.
That said, yes, it can be by a group of homosexual men or even by an individual and not by a group. But most of the time, it is gang like activity about power.... and humiliation and dominance.
BTW, women are raped for the same reasons. It is not about sex. The rapist I work with can be very full of bravado and claim it is about sex and so forth but when reality starts to hit the fan, they come clean and talk about their hatred, their fury, their rage, not about thier .... sexual experience. (I don't know what language is allowed on this board so ..... read between the lines.) Often their "equipment" is not ready for action.
A dominant style offender in a group setting is a high risk to men and women. I think it is very good for you to have a weapon but I also suggest you take self defense training in the use of the weapon, etc. Hand to hand self defense can be good too. I recommend this book: "The Gift of Fear". It talks about methods to use BEFORE you would need a weapon. (I think the local library can get it for you. I bought the $3 used one myself... with shipping it was under $7.)
Using a strong authoritative voice (as you mentioned you didn't think to before) is exactly the first step. This is the first thing I teach when I have taught about sexual offenders and their different styles. All of them tend to shy away from potentially loud victims. The voice needs to be loud, but more so.... use the lower register of your voice. Practice this at home. Using your normal voice (as far as loudness) try to speak a bit lower in pitch. If you are around hard of hearing people do it too... it is easier for them to hear as well. The lower pitches come accross as more authoritarian. Those who know me know my voice is high. I am a soprano (not the gangster type... I sing.) But when I mean business... I am an alto (lower pitch) or even a tenor (male pitch).
Be careful about extended eye contact. A brief glance to the eye during the use of your authoritarian voice is great, but extended eye contact can be interpreted as a challenge or invitation and what you want is for them to move on. Keep your elbows to the side of your body..... don't do big arm gestures with the whole arm.... in some cultures this would also be an invitation to trouble. (of course if you have to fight... wouldn't you want your arm closer to your body anyway?)
That said, don't walk around with your head hanging down and bad posture hoping to "fade into the background". Walk tall, take large steps. Keep your hands free from a bunch of junk like groceries. And please, don't wear some kind of music ear plugs. The only thing in your ear might be the cell phone for hands free use.
I would encourage you to not use the same bus stop day in and day out so you are predictable. Walk farther away to other bus stops some of the time.
Good advice about practicing at home. I think everyone has done this at least once. Ever see "Taxi Driver" with Robert Deniro? Great film.
"You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? Then who the hell else are you talkin' to? You talkin' to me? Well I'm the only one here. Who the f--- do you think you're talking to?"
Attachments
Carl N. Brown
Member
advice worth repeating
don't walk around with your head hanging down and bad
posture hoping to "fade into the background".
Walk tall, take large steps.
Mark Twain had a character walk into a farmyard without the
dogs barking by deliberately walking in like he belonged there.
Showing fear or acting suspicious alerts dogs and attackers.
Walk like you belong where you are and show awareness of your
surroundings. Watch Nature Channel: predators tend to attack
the weak or inattentive. Also in dealing with bears: if you are
aggressive, you are a threat; if you run away, you are food; if you
stand your ground, neither advancing nor retreating, the bears
tend to respect that.
Then again, no size really fits all, and individual results may vary.
don't walk around with your head hanging down and bad
posture hoping to "fade into the background".
Walk tall, take large steps.
Mark Twain had a character walk into a farmyard without the
dogs barking by deliberately walking in like he belonged there.
Showing fear or acting suspicious alerts dogs and attackers.
Walk like you belong where you are and show awareness of your
surroundings. Watch Nature Channel: predators tend to attack
the weak or inattentive. Also in dealing with bears: if you are
aggressive, you are a threat; if you run away, you are food; if you
stand your ground, neither advancing nor retreating, the bears
tend to respect that.
Then again, no size really fits all, and individual results may vary.
I once worked for a rather large freight company who forbid weapons carry. I always carried. Most of us did. Let's see, how many in a vehicle vs. capacity.....hmmm, No problemo - bring it. I'm too old to run & too mean to smile & play games. Sometimes ya just gotta give em what they ask for.
kurk
Member
Yep - it's pretty stupid in this day and age that a person's employer can dictate whether or not they can exercise their 2nd amendment rights to protect themselves. I work on a military base as a civilian, but am also deprived of my rights because it's the Military's policy. This country needs to get it's sh&% together and get rid of all these "defenceless zones". If we are trained and licensed, we should be able to carry ANYWHERE! &&^$$#
elkhuntingfool
member
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2007
- Messages
- 393
I agree. I work for the Federal Government and I can't even have a pocket knife in my car and I work swing shift in a 'not so great part of town'. Very stupid of employers to be short sighted.
RustyHammer
Member
Pocket knife, walking cane, baseball bat or golf club, pepper spray, cell phone (with camera / video), etc.
Stay in groups, if possible.
Talk to security and ask them what they recommend you do. Maybe you can work something out? (A locker under their control or something?)
Get a car!
Stay in groups, if possible.
Talk to security and ask them what they recommend you do. Maybe you can work something out? (A locker under their control or something?)
Get a car!
Autolycus
Member
Its not right to carry if the property owner does not want you to. It makes all gunowners look bad if you do.
XD Fan
Member
Vis,
Probably stating the obvious here that you have already thought of, but is there any way you can take an alternative (even if significantly longer) set of bus connections? The area you going through is too consistently dangerous in unconnected (except by numerous sociological factors) ways.
Probably stating the obvious here that you have already thought of, but is there any way you can take an alternative (even if significantly longer) set of bus connections? The area you going through is too consistently dangerous in unconnected (except by numerous sociological factors) ways.
vis-à-vis
Member
A new incident
I do believe this marks my fifth incident on the bus. Last night while half-way to my connection, a ghettofied 13 year old walked on to the bus with a group of his fellow banger types. After he pays for his ticket, he pulls out a handgun. Not an airsoft gun, not a cap gun, but a real handgun. I've seen one before, but I cannot recall the name for the life of me.
He fiddles with it, kinda showing it off, and walks past me to take a seat. This particular night I had zero tools for self-defense. I had left my keys in my friend's vehicle and so I could not lock my gear up before work. Figures I would encounter something like this.
So I walked up to the front and told the bus driver that this kid is openly brandishing a handgun and I say I am getting off right here. 7 blocks early. No sense in staying around with some idiot fiddling with a handgun.
I do believe this marks my fifth incident on the bus. Last night while half-way to my connection, a ghettofied 13 year old walked on to the bus with a group of his fellow banger types. After he pays for his ticket, he pulls out a handgun. Not an airsoft gun, not a cap gun, but a real handgun. I've seen one before, but I cannot recall the name for the life of me.
He fiddles with it, kinda showing it off, and walks past me to take a seat. This particular night I had zero tools for self-defense. I had left my keys in my friend's vehicle and so I could not lock my gear up before work. Figures I would encounter something like this.
So I walked up to the front and told the bus driver that this kid is openly brandishing a handgun and I say I am getting off right here. 7 blocks early. No sense in staying around with some idiot fiddling with a handgun.
I'd probably just dig myself in deeper by not being able to resist being a wiseass and trying to clarify what exactly that meant...
"so, when you say you are going to "sodomize" me...what exactly does that mean? Do you know where the term "sodomize" comes from...? In your culture, this would be a normal sort of activity? Not that there's anything wrong with that!
"so, when you say you are going to "sodomize" me...what exactly does that mean? Do you know where the term "sodomize" comes from...? In your culture, this would be a normal sort of activity? Not that there's anything wrong with that!
eastwood44mag
Member
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2005
- Messages
- 1,027
Start twitching and cursing loudly. Talk to the voices in your head.
People are normally scared of anyone who appears to be mentally unstable. If you act like the agent orange is screwing with your head, you might become a much less desirable target.
People are normally scared of anyone who appears to be mentally unstable. If you act like the agent orange is screwing with your head, you might become a much less desirable target.
vis-à-vis
Member
lol.
Probably.
- Status
