A look at two rifles.

Which one?

  • 30-06, better balistics

    Votes: 14 19.2%

  • .308, shorter and lighter

    Votes: 38 52.1%

  • Neither, give reason please! :-)

    Votes: 21 28.8%
  • Total voters
    73
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P.B.Walsh

P.B.Walsh

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Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
2,287
Location
Tuscaloosa,Alabama
Yes, another look at two SHTF rifles. But I have another question, and that is; which one of these rifles would be better suited to a ultility, do everything rifle.*

First choice:
Action: Winchester Model 70 CRF
Caliber: 30-06
Barrel: Kreiger MTU, 26"
Stock: Manners (probally)
Optic: USO 3.2-17x44mm with BUIS
Length: ~46"
Weight: ~18 lbs.*

This rifle would cover everything from 200 - 1,400 yards, but come up short with any kind of short range, quick shooting (stuff under 100 yards), and would be an absolute beast to carry and shoot unsupported. However, it can be very accuate out to a long range, and has better ballistics then my second option.*

Second Choice:
Action: Winchester Model 70 CRF
Caliber: .308
Barrel: 18.5" - 20" Kreiger MTU
Stock: Manners (probally)*
Optic: USO 1.8-10x44mm with BUIS
Length: ~40"
Weight: ~14 lbs.*

This rifle would cover everything from 50 - 1,000, and would be better for close in fighting (sub-100 yards). Wouldn't be that bad to carry (I already hunt with a 12 lb. rifle). Not quite as good in the balistics category as the larger 30-06, but the rifle is smaller and more manuverable.*

Ok, then the other question; single shot, BDL style, or magazine fed?

Dead set on a Winchester Model 70 CRF, unless I gp single shot, which would be some kind of custom action in that case.*

Thank you in advance,
P.B.Walsh
 
Really? Those are both long range target rifles. Neither one is a SHTF rifle. Neither one is even close to being a utility rifle.

Manage to trim $300 bucks from your dedicated long range rifle and get a Marlin 336, Remington 760 (in matching caliber), AR, AK, SKS, Mosin, or even a 10/22. Basically anything that weighs less than 9 lbs and make that your utility rifle.
RT
 
I like Winchester actions and have owned my share of them. If you want it for a SHTF situation the short barreled .308 is preferred.
 
Either one of those will do a fine job of defending an oasis with a clear line of fire for 1/2 mile or more, but SHTF rifle? That being said, I built a rifle almost exactly like your first choice.

Win06t1.jpg

Action: Winchester M70 PF
Caliber: 30-06
Barrel: Kreiger MTU, 26"
Stock: McMillan A-2
Optic: Leupold 6.5-20x50LR Mildot
Length: ~46"
Weight: ~16.5 lbs.

I load 190SMK's to 2900fps, and enjoy ballistics far superior to the .308. While match grade ammo can be bought for the .308, the .30-06 as a tactical/match platform requires handloading for it. I have both a .30-06 and a .308 tactical rifle, and either one is up to the task, so, which ever one floats your boat, go with it. But, I would HIGHLY suggest that if you go with the MTU contour, that you have it fluted to better balance the rifle.

Don
 
For SHTF, I'd look more at an AR15 or AR10 type rifle not a bold action. HB bolt rifles are not my idea of a SHTF rifle. You might also consider an M1 Garand type rifle.
 
Combat as conducted right now around the world is SHTF, so anything less than self loading is a loser. Add "utility," you get to downsize to an intermediate cartridge.

Action: Stoner Direct Impingement
Caliber: 5.56, 6.8 SPC, .300 BLK, 6.5Grendel
Barrel: Milspec 2MOA
Stock: Fixed, w/handguard
Optic: Red Dot, or 2-4X scope, with BUIS
Length: under 30"
Weight: under 8 lbs.

A lesser substitute would be the various lever guns made the last 100 years, or some cheap AK clone. The latter two do not have tactical user controls.

The carbine would be good for 10-500m, where 85% of shooting in SHTF and utility situations occurs. It would be far superior in close in and intermediate range fighting where you can actually see the target and it's movement. It would be light, quick to reacquire targets after the shot, easy to carry, and have the most likelihood of actually being with the user.

We don't use bolt actions for SHTF and utility rifles, lever guns were doing that job before bolts were invented, and semi autos do it now.
 
New Stevens 200 in short or long action: $300
Shilen Chrome Moly blued barrel, either caliber: $300
Choate Tactical or BC Medalist Tactical stock: $250
SSS, Timney, or Basix trigger: $100
Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50 30mm scope: $500
Burris Signature Zee 30mm rings: $60
EGW 20moa one-piece scope base: $40
Barrel nut wrench, go-gages, & flip-up scope caps: $80
Selling OE Stevens barrel & stock: -$50

Subtotal: $1580

It'll do 95%+ of your stated mission with just as much accuracy for a fraction of the price of just your selected optic (let alone whole weapon system), leaving you PLENTY of money for a stockpile of ammo and a quality battle rifle like an AR15/AR10/M1A that would be more suited to "SHTF close in fighting" than a heavy long-range bolt gun.
 
We don't use bolt actions for SHTF and utility rifles, lever guns were doing that job before bolts were invented, and semi autos do it now.
Click to expand...

Not to start an argument or anything but I disagree with the above. What about the Mauser and other bolt actions that the military used.

But every persons SHTF situation could be different. You can't lose with a semi auto.
 
Not to start an argument or anything but I disagree with the above. What about the Mauser and other bolt actions that the military used.
Click to expand...
Militaries that issued Mausers also issued other guns for close-range engagements (generally either pistols, revolvers, or submachineguns); the Mausers were for longer-range engagements. Since civilian defensive use (even in a Katrina-type event) will almost always be inside 100 yards (and usually inside 25 yards), not 600 yards, an all-purpose defensive long gun should be able to handle the more likely closer-range scenario as well, IMO.
 
Well, I thought amout a semi-auto, but in the long run, I just trust a bolt-action more then I do a semi-auto. The scope on the .308 might could be a 1.5-6 power USO instead of the 1.8-10 powered one. I'm kinda thinking something to on the line of the UGSW rifle seen at this link:

http://www.undergroundsw.com/page3.php

Another option would be a short barrelled .223 with a Wylde chamber.
 
To be honest I don't think the answer to a SHTF situation can be answered with one gun. I have several for that reason.

In the safe sits a Winchester 94 in .30-30, bought a few years ago. It was owned by one of the police Depts in the area and carried by their mounted unit. The gun was traded in for an AR type weapon after the mounted unit was disbanded. There's a lot to be said for the lever action and that's why I have one.

Also have a Mossberg 500 mariner which should serve me well and a bunch of pistols.

Chances are though that should something happen with my luck I'd make the wrong choice.
 
Ok, I have a silly newbie question. I assume that SHTF means poop hits the fan. Am I correct?
 
Neither would fit my needs in an urban environment; there are no 500 yard shots around here. An accurate scoped .22 LR, and a couple of ammo cans full of bricks of Long Rifle Hollow Points would cover 99% of everything I'd need a working gun for in hard times. A short, handy centerfire repeater of some sort would handle everything else, maybe a lever action or a semi-auto in some calibre from .223 to 7.62mm.
 
Ev’r’ thing I needed to know to succeed in life, I learnt in kinnygarden.

So imma sittin’ here, recollectin’ them lessons on not cryin’ wolf, and Chicken Lil’ what with his commotion of the sky’s fallen. Them lesson’s lernt me well fur later days, when two fellas sportin’ white shirts, black pants and black ties lined-up at one end o’ main street, and commenced in some sorta half-hearted “sprint” to the other end o’ town. Theys makin’ al sorta commotion ‘bout ‘Jesus is comin’”. I reckon I didn’ do much more than ponder what the Hades tey wuz runnin’ away fur. Seemed to me they wuz frearsom o’ Him. Didn’t seem much cause fur alarm. But them fellas, they wuz plum terrified o’ Jesus.

Course, I recken itda had better affect ifin’ theyda hollered, “Yur daddy’s gonna whoop yur @$$ when he gets home!” Now them words, they dun struck fear into the very soul of every miscreant kid in America.

So, now, all these years later, I see’d how my ejumakashun has dun prepart me yet again for contemporary events, an’ those pendin’. Seems ta me they’s some sorta correlation twixt them lessons, and SHTF. It all makes sense to me, now why my mama always asked me ifin’ Ida used soap in that bathtub, cuz the water just looked to clean. So, now, I recken that lesson was to prepare me for cleanin’-up after the feces impacted the ventilation. I recken id make a Hades of a mess, now woul’nit?! But, I don’t see how toutin’ a bol’-action or a semi-auto rifle’s gonna go me much good one over the other. Seems ta me, ifin’ yous expectin’ the feces ta impact the ventilation, it’d be better ta switch-off the electric.

Now, Imma sittin’ here, still waitin’ on Jesus, and still waitin’ for the feces to impact the ventilation. It hain’t tha’ I’ma sayin’ it’ll neve’ come to pass, but durn-it! I been watin’ nigh 50 years! I hear’d of runnin’ late, but seriously!

Confused…

GeeKnow
 
Go .308, my MBR is a .308 and I use a 3.5-10 scope, soon to be a 3-9 Nikon, and It's my Howa 1500 Sporter with Hogue stock.
My dad's MBR is a Bushmaster XM15E2S with MOE stock, grip, and handguard, and it has a 3.5x ACOG, not to mention our pistols, we have plenty.
But our stockpile is just starting ammo wise.
 
Jeff Cooper spent considerable time writing on this topic. He came up with the scout rifle concept. Google it and u will find a lot on it. He liked the Styer Scout (made based on his writings) which was a 308 bolt action. He also liked lever actions.
 
:banghead::banghead::banghead: Okay, I was up way too late last night. Can't believe I fell for it. HS kid with a Halo fantasy making no sense whatsoever....and I responded seriously. :eek::eek::eek:
RT
 
Red Tornado, I am a HS kid, and do play Halo, big deal!! I have no fantasies about TEOTWAWKI thing, cause, if it does happen, it'll be more then one human can handle, and unless you have friends, with the same mindset, you screwed. My question, is which one of these two rifles are "better" for an "all-around" purpose. And seriously, dont bring video games into this crap. Have a nice day!! :)
 
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