A New American Civil War - West Vs. East?

[4v50 Gary]

AZLiberterian - I stand corrected. Yes, our first Civil War resulted in the break from the mother country and the results were wonderful.

The second civil war was seen by some of the participants as a continuation of the first. That was a rebellion but not a revolution (the former indicating a failure and the latter a success). The "inviolate right" of a state to succeed from a voluntary union was tried before in the 1840s but when South Carolina tried it, no other state stood by her and President Jackson (Old Hickory) threatened to send in the military (what was it, 10-15k strong(?) in the 1840s?).

Wanna start another rebellion? Shut down the telly and make the sheeple think. Ohmigawd! They did what to us?

 

[twoblink]

Gary..

When you have Davis at the helm.. he's like King Anti-Midus.. Everything he touches turns into mildew..

People who voted for him the second time around; need to get neutered so they don't have any more kids!

It's amazing to me that one of one hand; liberals yap about saving the whales, rights for monkeys and dolphins, and then usurp human rights at gestapo rates..

 

[4v50 Gary]

twoblink: Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha! Everything turns to mildew. Bwahahahahahaha! People who voted for him need to be neutred. Bwahahahahaha!

 

[spartacus2002]

2d American Revolution, or 3d Civil War, or whatever you call it, will come much sooner than any of us think, and I can tell you why in 2 questions?

1. When are the baby boomers due to start retiring in their first HUGE WAVES, and start drawing massive amounts of Social Security (not per person, but altogether)?

2. When is Hillary Clinton, socialist extraordinaire and subject of a whispering campaign regarding her Presidential aspirations, rumored to be the Democratic nominee for President?

Folks, when the boomers start retiring, it will be a drain on our financial system unheralded in our history. One of several things must happen then:
(a) our 7% (or however small it is) SS tax jumps to, say, 20%?
(b) we inflate our money supply even more than it is, rendering the $ virtually worthless (go read your history of Germany between the wars and the inflation of the mark)
(c) politicians tell the largest voting bloc in our country to go pound sand (yeah, like that will happen)

And Hillary will campaign on how she will make sure the boomers get their checks off of our hardworking backs -- all 2 of us for each boomer.

I got nuthin' against the boomers, but I'm not going into slavery for anyone.

 

[brownie0486]

Oh Yes you are.

The boomers rock

Brownie

 

[longeyes]

Hey, Spartacus, not to worry, that's why the pols want those open
borders. They figure eventually there'll be a net gain instead of
a net drain. Some of us question the abacus they're working with
but what the hell, right?

 

[Waitone]

The population of the US is declining. Our reproduction rate is less than replacement.

Growth in the US population is because of immigration, legal and illegal.

The baby boom spike will savage the wagon pullers. No country will be able to sustain the real tax rate necessary to keep SS system from collapsing.

In any Ponzi Scheme the base must expand or it will collapse. In SS the base is money, not people.

There is one solution not discussed in public but I guarantee you the power elites have talked it up. That is keep boomers on the job well past the mythical 65. If boomers retired as everyone expects, far too many people will be taken out of the work force at one time. Economic dislocation will be too high. Solution is to keep 'em workin' and paying that tax. . . . . The alternative is to outsource huge percentages of labor (not likely because of the servere deflationary consequences) or bring in immigrants and tax the snot out of them (in process).

How do you keep the geezers on the job?????? Get 'em to invest heavily in deferred tax savings, keep savings in equities, collapse the equities market, presto chango, geezers no longer have the nest egg everyone is hoping for.

. . . . and , no, my cynicism does not keep me awake at night.

 

[SodaPop]

Its going to be over issues like abortion that are going to set things off. If there is even the hint of the Supreme Court turning to the Right, the Left is going to get out of hand.

I realize there are plenty of Pro-choice 2nd Ammendment types on this Board but they are in the minority. How many Surpeme Court Justices are going to be Pro-2nd and Pro-Choice? NONE!!


What issue does the Democratic party keep its base with? Pro-Choice, Gay Rights, pulling 'the race card' ect. ect. ect..

What issue does the Conservative Party keeps its base with? Second Ammendment, traditional Judeo-Christian social beliefs ect. ect. ect...



There is all too much hate on both sides of the aisle 9/11 only held it off for awhile.

 

[St. Gunner]

Nobody so far is really wrong...

Every reason listed for a civil war to errupt, is an issue someone is willing to die for to make right. They vary from water, to guns, to the constitution, to social security checks, to people unwilling to support others with SS. But the thing we all must realize to keep from being splintered is that we know where the problems stem from, it is a government bent on legislating every aspect of our lives. We in turn must take responsibility for our own actions which led to that legislation which is going to kill our land. We all will come to that realization at some point, it is human nature to realize, even if to late, that we failed. Who was it that said, "We gave you a republic, if you can keep it." As we slide more towards a socialist democracy...

Some won't, they will just follow, but they will in turn perish in the crash that follows the demise of those with morals and values.

I have a host of issues I will no longer compromise on, one I discussed at length with a deputy last evening about the liberal lethal force laws in Texas, defense of property, and the average response time, it was only 45minutes last night after a call of tresspassers in my carport at 2:30am. I was explaining to him he could look out for the welfare of the neighborhood scum by explaining they would be greeted by two shots to the chest the next time they came, as he explained how it isn't right to kill someone over property, even if the law says it is legal. I will not go peacefully for protecting my property, so you can add that to the mix...

 

[seeker_two]

The next civil war won't be another grand spectacle like the last one...

It will be a series of McVeigh-style attacks...

And Rudolph-style assasinations...

That will be conveniently "covered" by exisitng anti-terrorist legislation...

And the Patriot Acts One through Five (just wait)...

Resulting in urban & rural warfare similar to Northern Ireland...

And SWAT-type teams (possibly w/ military assistance) "investigating" homes in every community...

And even more anti-"terrorist" legislation that will co-opt the Constitution.

It's not going to be pretty...

 

[Travis McGee]

ShooterX10: I don't think that a American civil war would break down along geographical lines. Sure, big chunks of the west would probably go "our way," but only because they would fall more on the rural side of a rural vs urban war. But I even think a "civil war" is less likely than a South American style "dirty war." One way such a war could break out would be over the issue of firearms, which is the subject of my novel.

 

[Travis McGee]

Seeker: I think you are exactly correct. I agree 100% with your take.

 

[TheEgg]

Slightly different view.

I think that when large scale violence breaks out it will come from the left, not the right. Look at the current vitriolic attacks coming from the left, including most of the leftist candidates for President. Look at how the left on campuses react to speech from the right. Look at how the left supports terrorists such as the extreme enviromentalists and animal rights nut-cases. Look at how the left in this country really admire Castro and his ilk. Look at how much the left really hate America.

If the left sees elections continuing to swing against them and more conservative's in power (I also like the above points about the Supreme Court), I think they are fully capable of ignoring law (see NJ and Florida supreme courts for reference) and going to extra-legal and violent means.

People on the right in my opinion are generally too fragmented in their views and too willing to rely on "law" and "the system" to be the instigators of conflict, certain well know exceptions such as Rudolph and McVeigh notwithstanding. Extreme left-wingers strike me as very willing to justify the means with the ends and seem to have a culture that encourages or compels a uniform idelogical viewpoint.

Please note that I am making a distinction here between mainstream "liberals/Democrates" and leftists. The leftists seem to me to be about 10%-15% of the population only. Is this group large enough to take over? I don't think so, but it is certainly large enough to cause chaos.

 

[Sportcat]

Damn... I thought the country would revolt when they tried to get rid of my Double Stuff Oreos!!!

So, where are all of the THR's going to meet when the SHTF?

 

[CZ-100]

This is why I WILL NOT GIVE UP MY GUNS!!!!

 

[SodaPop]

So, where are all of the THR's going to meet when the SHTF?

I'm personally going to resort to my natural insticts and become a warlord.
Start up an 'armed' army and start taking over all the un-cooperating towns in my area.


Maybe even liberate NJ.

It shouldn't be too hard.

If you see my army marching toward your town, just put up a flag and tell me your THR screen name and I'll let you join my army.

 

[clange]

I'm personally going to resort to my natural insticts to become a warlord.
Start up an 'armed' army and start taking over all the un cooperating towns in my area.


Maybe even liberate NJ.

It shouldn't be too hard.

If you see my army marching toward your town, just put up a flag and tell me your THR screen name and I'll let you join my army.

ROFL

 

[QuarterBoreGunner]

And I for one, welcome our new overlord SodaPop.


Seriously though, I have to agree with some previous posters- I doub't there will be a civil war, per se. I see more a long protracted slide into an even more restricted society. People, as a general rule seem like the classic toad in the boiling water.

It brings to mind a day dream I've often had; 'what would one of the founding fathers say, if you could bring them to our time, about the state of America?' Ok after the freaking out over the whole 'horseless carriage' thing... what would they say? Have we lost ground ( I think so) or gained ground (though I think we're better off now in any number of areas than say 1776...)


Just rambling.

 

[Moparmike]

Odd that you ask that question, as me and a friend were talking about that just last night.

I would hand them a copy of the Income Tax Code, a copy of the 16th amendment, show how the 10th amendment(0) is the veritable toilet paper of all 3 branches of government, a copy of national gun laws, a copy of the PRK's gun laws, a copy of NJ's gun laws, and then wait for their impending stroke(s). If they lived thru that, I would hand them a detailed book of the nation's history, then wait for their stroke. I would also show them the nature of frivolus laws and lawsuits.

I would give Thomas Jefferson a copy of everything we have done with the UN (lets remember he said {and I paraphrase}: "Do not form binding ties with other nations as they will be your undoing." He meant in a military way, and said that in another quote. Business ties are fine.)

If they lived, I think they would take up arms and "change" some laws and do some "gentle persuading" of our current lawmakers.


(0): Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

 

[amprecon]

This country full of sheeple? There are probably quite a lot. However I still hold on to the belief that most Americans are good people of good moral character. I like to compare Americans to honey bees; left alone to their work they are pretty much harmless until pestered.

I do believe that most people are not up-to-date with politics; I don’t think it’s on their Top-10 list of priorities. We have busy lives; we like to be left alone to do what we want to do, to take care of our personal priorities, not worry over the daily goings-on in politics.

There are extremists on all sides of the political spectrum, it was said that the left are extreme, but let’s not forget the violent actions of the anti-abortion activists also. I cannot predict the future, but the past has given me ample examples of what it takes to set a group of people into despair and hostility.

The Rodney King beating verdicts was enough for thousands to lose their self-control and revolt the unfair decision. Not to say their actions were justified, but what alternatives did they have? What other means of recourse could that group of people have taken? Appeals? Petitions? They reached their breaking point. There was nothing they did, nor could’ve done aside from sacking the courthouse and lynching those officers that would’ve given them the justice they sought, how would the rest of America have reacted to that? How did we react to what happened? Some sympathized with the actions of the communities (to some extent); others thought it was revolting, savage and unnecessary.

As far as I am concerned, the burnings, lootings, assaults were totally unjustified. The local businesses had nothing to do with the verdicts yet they were the focus of revenge. It seems that sacking the courthouse for the officers or the judge might have been more dangerous, but it was where the source of their anger emanated from.

What will it take to set off Conservative America? I believe that most of these sheeple will shed their sheep’s clothing when they do get set off and the hounds-of-war will be released. There will be an identifiable enemy and there will be an identifiable goal. The actions of Conservative America will be calculated and destructive, not diverted with random looting and burning. I believe that most believe in the Constitution and will fight to restore it to its pre-eroded status, maybe with a few amendments added, such as no lawyers allowed to run for president.

I also believe that the majority of our armed forces will take the side of the righteous because they are generally conservative people as well and took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution (not illegitimate law).

The only problem I am having is trying to discern what will be the spark to set-off Conservative America. It has to be an attack on a common valuable asset or right, something that all Conservative Americans value, not just some. There has been an ebbing erosion of our rights, we have complained and talked and petitioned and formed associations and even stood before congressional hearings to give our concerns but to no avail. Eerily similar to the actions our forefathers took when appealing to King George. Those on the left will be our modern day Tories, hopefully to suffer the same fate.

 

[Mr. James]

amprecon,

I had to fly to Buffalo today for my work. I refuse to fly for any other reason, outside of family emergency.

What a pathetic sight. People, vast numbers of them, with grateful docility, taking off their shoes and placing all their worldly goods on the X-ray line, before trundling through the scanner.... They even wore special slip-off shoes to make the process simpler. "Oh, thank you for humiliating me."

Welcome to the camps, we've been well trained.

Before I stepped through the Magnotometer, one guy said, "you may want to take off your shoes [to put them through the X-ray]."

"And maybe I don't."

Guess which routine I got?

Hell if I'll make their job easier.

 

[Sportcat]

Remember foklks, you don't have to fly if you don't want to. It's a privelege, not a right.

So please don't complain if don't like going through screenings before you get on a flight.

 

[longeyes]

"The only problem I am having is trying to discern what will be the spark to set-off
Conservative America. It has to be an attack on a common valuable asset or
right, something that all Conservative Americans value, not just some."

There's plenty of tinder out there to spark a Conservative "uprising."
America has always been a future-oriented country, based on the idea
that more freedom will bring a better life. When Americans lose faith
in that future, see the future of their children imperiled, their
retirement in jeopardy, their own identities and basic rights questioned,
they will understand it's now or never and that action is required.
Socialist incursions into the inner sanctum of the family are one
example of what threatens. Mortgaging future generations to pay
for unchecked social programs today is another. Absorbing millions of
illegal immigrants is yet another. I think a lot of Americans are
slowly realizing that they are Unrepresented but increasingly taxed
(although much of that is being hidden in unfunded debt and deficits).

 

[Sportcat]

Longeyes,

Excellent, excellent post! I agree with you 100%!

 

[clange]

Half the people in this country dont vote for the president. Half of the ones that do are idiots, that would welcome socialism apparently. So thats 25% that care enough to vote, and arent retarded monkeys. How many of them realize where we're headed still? How many of them actually have been exposed to something like this website or similar views? How many of them actually agree with said views? How many of them care enough to ever do anything? My guess is not too many.

I think having everyone here agreeing is distorting the view of the real world. Now i'm not saying it isnt possible, i just dont see 'conservartive america' ever rising up to do anything. Especially when we're "winning" and you have conservatives on the tv and radio championing their 'successes'.